Jump to content
CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

Recommended Posts

I want a starting weapon that is effective at various ranges. 

Buffed pistol would do that, unless you consider "effective" to mean hand-holding aim assist and bullet mag, like the BR.

Share this post


Link to post

Do you guys think there is more pre-launch hype for H5 than there was for Reach and 4? Seems like it to me.

343 is definitely trying their damnedest

Share this post


Link to post

Do you guys think there is more pre-launch hype for H5 than there was for Reach and 4? Seems like it to me.

Wasn't really around for Reach, but compared to H4, the hype is out the window.

 

The trailers have been better, there was a 3-week beta, and #HuntTheTruth is amazing. Also is a better game, and will have HCS, Ranks, & Spectator. 

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

It still does though, for the randomness to be negative it would have to be easy to pull off to the point were everyone can do it, he said it's too hard to track for the person not thrusting, ignoring the fact that it's just as hard for both players, implying that it's easier for for the person thrusting when that's not true, the aimbot comment was just used to animate the point, not literally an aimbot.

 

And what you said right here is why I don't agree with his point. :) While it does make it easier for the person thrusting to know where to aim (i.e. if he knows he's about to thrust to the left, he's obviously going to instinctively aim towards the right pre-emptively). When he stated that it was overpowered and felt "random" I assume he meant in the current state it was in. Thruster would have to be slowed a bit for shooting to be practical; for both ends sake. I assume (mind you I can only assume considering I wasn't testing it) they weren't able to find a good medium for this. 

 

However, thruster discussion aside, I don't have a problem with thruster as much as I do sprint so I was focusing in that aspect lol.

Share this post


Link to post

One of the interesting things we saw in the data from beta was that retention for players that started playing in week 2 (BR starts) was substantially lower than week 1. There was a high incidence of new players (mid-level skill based on historical performance) playing and losing 1-2 games and then giving up on the game. We didn't see this w/ AR starts. It's impossible to draw absolute conclusions from these stats but it highlighted the potential for frustration when players are getting pinged at long distance by the BR while struggling to use it themselves. We've also been deliberate in establishing the BR a skilled weapon w/ relatively low aim assist. This widens the skill gap and rewards the player with the better shot, but it's potentially more frustrating for new players. We've seen feedback from players complaining about the BR feeling ineffective, which usually translates into "I can't hit my target consistently."

 

The approach we've taken w/ weapon balance is to establish the AR as viable at CQC and mid-range, w/ the BR extending out longer and having a slight advantage in the hands of a skilled shooter. In this regard it can work as a starting weapon off spawn.

 

 

 

:)

 

Why not just run with BR Primary, AR secondary? This to me has been the obvious solution for years now. On top of that as far as player retention goes, just make sure the ranking system works and that theory no longer holds any weight. I for one stopped playing in week 2 because after week 1, I was hoping BR starts would fix most of the issues I had with H5. It did not so I stopped playing. I know this is true for the majority of my xbl friends as well, so some that could explain some of your numbers.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Buffed pistol would do that, unless you consider "effective" to mean hand-holding aim assist and bullet mag, like the BR.

 

Supposedly the bullet mag will be reduced in the final game.

 

I am all for a hard to use starting weapon, but look at the weapons in the beta:

 

- Pistol 

- BR 

- DMR

- Light Rifle

 

Then add maybe a Carbine a who knows what more to the final game.

 

I want to start with the most versatile rifle, and that is the BR.

Share this post


Link to post

Disable aim assist during thrust, rather than disabling shooting might be the ticket.

 

This only nerfs the BR, Pistol and DMR though. Shotgun, AR, SMG, Rockets are still useful without aim assist

Share this post


Link to post

This only nerfs the BR, Pistol and DMR though. Shotgun, AR, SMG, Rockets are still useful without aim assist

take away the reticle.
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

And what you said right here is why I don't agree with his point. :) While it does make it easier for the person thrusting to know where to aim (i.e. if he knows he's about to thrust to the left, he's obviously going to instinctively aim towards the right pre-emptively). When he stated that it was overpowered and felt "random" I assume he meant in the current state it was in. Thruster would have to be slowed a bit for shooting to be practical; for both ends sake. I assume (mind you I can only assume considering I wasn't testing it) they weren't able to find a good medium for this. 

 

However, thruster discussion aside, I don't have a problem with thruster as much as I do sprint so I was focusing in that aspect lol.

well with thruster what we can do is, during the thrust, aim assist can be taken away, reticle can be removed, replaced with like dot or small circle(like how when sprinting there is an arrow in the center of the screen for charge), remove magnetism, and up the speed a little so that that pre knowledge is compensated but the potential is not lost if you are good because you can still shoot.

Share this post


Link to post

well with thruster what we can do is, during the thrust, aim assist can be taken away, reticle can be removed, replaced with like dot or small circle(like how when sprinting there is an arrow in the center of the screen for charge), remove magnetism, and up the speed a little so that that pre knowledge is compensated but the potential is not lost if you are good because you can still shoot.

basically like "no scoping" with a sniper?

 

I dig it. 

Share this post


Link to post

 

On sprint, I feel like this is a religious debate. The mechanic is incredibly divisive. Nothing I say will convince the sprint haters that it’s good for Halo, no matter how it’s implemented. We like the way our game plays with sprint. There are many reasons why it’s in the game, both mechanical & experiential. I’ve tried explaining some of them (and maybe I have done a poor job), but it seems any attempt to do so devolves into a dogmatic rhetoric and personal attacks. Suffice to say, we enjoy the way it plays and feel it supports our vision for Halo 5. That’s why it’s in there. The core of the game is supported by sprint and we prefer the way it plays with it. So do the vast majority of players based on all of our research. For people that don’t like it, we’ve enabled a toggle in customs so they can play without it.

 

There. I’m done talking about sprint. :)

 

 

You really lost me here, not that it's very surprising. I just don't understand how I'm supposed to read something like this and just be okay with it. The reason that nothing you guys are saying is convincing us that sprint is good is for Halo is because you're wrong. People have gone to such lengths to show how detrimental sprint is, and sure you have tried to balance it. But it ends up being like putting a bandaid on a flesh wound, you just can't fix it without turning Halo into something that doesn't feel like Halo anymore. And now it sounds like you have all but given up on giving us any actual reason and are just resorting to saying, "WELL WE LIKE IT!" It's not that you've done a poor job explaining why you have sprint in the game, it's the actual reasons we have a problem with.

 

You have given me even more reason to not buy Halo 5, thank you very much for making my decision even easier.

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

basically like "no scoping" with a sniper?

 

I dig it.

 

pretty much, you wouldn't make it so that you couldn't shoot a sniper out of scope would you?

Share this post


Link to post

I would be fine with BR starts or BR/AR starts. Not with AR or AR/Magnum

 

A good Skill based matchmaking system will get rid of new players complaining about getting wrecked by BRs.

If Magnum took one less shot to kill it would stand a fair chance against BR / DMR and would be a viable counter to how powerful the AR was (and I assume still is).

 

If we use BR starts, we just created one pointless sandbox element. It's not even about getting wrecked by it, it's just pointless.

 

I just don't see why people insist on BR starts. It's not more skillful in any shape or form, it's just a better (also read: easier) weapon overall. It's worth picking up, but what's the point of upgrading the starting weapon to other stuff just because it's better? It takes away from map knowledge if anything, because that's one less thing to go for on the maps, which means more pointless areas on maps that are big enough as it is.

 

And where do we draw the line? Imagine if people spawned with snipers in Halo 3 just because the BR wasn't that good at all?

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

pretty much, you wouldn't make it so that you couldn't shoot a sniper out of scope would you?

Word.

 

I like this.

 

Hope Josh does something with this or at least relays it for brainstorming/testing. :prayers:

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

BR + AR all the way. 

 

Any other way and I see riots happening.  :bravo:

 

Also:

 

CDoJRlbW0AA-XEs.png

Share this post


Link to post

:walshy:  :walshy:  :walshy:  :walshy:  :walshy:  :walshy:

 

I'm having such a nerd gasm right now.

 

Why do they have to do this with 1:45 minutes till my finals -_-

Share this post


Link to post

What's the point of a Pistol, if it's not a starting weapon? Seriously. The competitive community needs to let go of its BR fetish, and push for a buffed H5 pistol.

 

1) Remove recoil - this should only stay on automatics or burst-fire weapons. Right now it ruins the Magnum.

2) Buff the RRR. It should be able to compete with BRs at range, though with lower aim-assist (which it has right now).

3) MAYBE make it a 4-shot. I'm torn on this, don't think we really need it, as the AR is getting nerfed in accuracy and headshot bonus. 

 

Edit: Also, in case you didn't know, Pistol kills faster than the BR. 1.1 second perfect kill time versus 1.34 second perfect kill time.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

hKxzt40.jpg

 

Confirmed Confirmed Confirmed

Halo 5 is looking SOOO much better than Halo 4 in a lot of perspectives. Crossing my fingers this game meets expectations at launch!

Share this post


Link to post

The approach we've taken w/ weapon balance is to establish the AR as viable at CQC and mid-range, w/ the BR extending out longer and having a slight advantage in the hands of a skilled shooter. In this regard it can work as a starting weapon off spawn.

 

I think having a precision weapon that can nudge out the AR in CQC with perfect shots is a must (buffed pistol - remove all spread/flinch/recoil), I do appreciate the weapon balance you are aiming to achieve though. However you need to have that motivation/capability to improve your aim to allow natural progression/prevent stagnation. By that I mean noobs don't stay noobs for ever - most of them become at least average players, in which case they care about performing better. Even in muck around games people still like to do better than worse, people who say otherwise are lying or are trying some kind of social reaction experiment. So allowing the opportunity to gain an advantage in simple spawner vs spawner combat, by using a more difficult weapon, is perfect facilitation for general population skill improvements.

 

If there is no always-accessible reward for aiming better, then why learn to aim better? If using a low-skill weapon gets you better results 90% of them time, then why learn to use a harder weapon? (the unpopular Carbine is the consistent example of this; harder to use than the BR but not rewarding enough to warrant using)

 

Again, the argument that casuals don't care about improving is irrelevant; this is not forcing them to play a hard game, play against hard opponents, or even to use the pistol/BR or improve at all. It is simply leading a horse to water, whether they drink or not is up to them. Looking at the bigger picture is important here; we need to reduce the divide between social and competitive for the good of both populations.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Thrusters were added before our opinion on them was available, so our influence was not responsible for adding thrusters to the game.

 

Also, I don't know if you were around for the reach beta feedback thread that shishka started on the MLG forums, but almost everyone in the thread began by praising the game, some going as far as stating that reach was their favorite halo game yet.

 

Start another poll 1-2 months after the game launches posing the question "would you prefer halo 5 with or without thrusters." You will see very different results.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.