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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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@@Sal1ent @@Deez The MCC and Halo 5 need to come to PC with some sort of cross platform game play to help jump start the franchise. The HCS will never be a big esport as long as Halo is exclusive to Xbox.

lol

 

1) cross platform play

 

2) Halo 5 coming to PC

 

Could see MCC coming to PC eventually though. 

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Having H5 intended to duel launch on the PC and the XB1 would be huge. You'd see a lot more freedom in terms of what the community could bring to game. If the ranking system is good enough Halo is the sort of game you could have cross platform play.

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@@Sal1ent @@Deez The MCC and Halo 5 need to come to PC with some sort of cross platform game play to help jump start the franchise. The HCS will never be a big esport as long as Halo is exclusive to Xbox.

 

lets not put the cart before the horse just yet. 

 

Id still like an actual functioning game first before we assume 343 can deliver cross platform play.

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Having H5 intended to duel launch on the PC and the XB1 would be huge. You'd see a lot more freedom in terms of what the community could bring to game. If the ranking system is good enough Halo is the sort of game you could have cross platform play.

That would be awesome, how has that worked in the past for other games with mouse vs controller, and with pc customisation/enhancements vs console? Do things workout fair?

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Having H5 intended to duel launch on the PC and the XB1 would be huge.

Yeah all of a sudden the modding community makes Halo 5 an amazing game on PC by removing sprint, smart scope, spartan abilities minus thrusters, bloom, spread, boost movement to compensate for PC aiming and it becomes a much superior game to H5 on console.

 

Every time 343 would be like "we can't do this" the community would go out of their way to find a way to make it work and just make them look like fools.

 

You think they want that? Halo Online has shown Microsoft can't deal with these things. On top of that, the Xbox One would honestly become even more of a waste than MCC made it look at the time it came out. 

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That would be awesome, how has that worked in the past for other games with mouse vs controller, and with pc customisation/enhancements vs console? Do things workout fair?

 

Mouse and keyboard will always wreck controller users. Trying to even the playing field across platforms is an exercise in futility. I see nothing wrong with a PC version of H5 but I would keep the populations separate.

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Mouse and keyboard will always wreck controller users. Trying to even the playing field across platforms is an exercise in futility. I see nothing wrong with a PC version of H5 but I would keep the populations separate.

Or give the option for a cross platform playlist/mode. I doubt it would sustain any relevant population but I would definitely play in it.

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I've been an xbox user since 2005. I started playing PC games only two months ago and I already greatly prefer it to playing my xbox one. While selling the game on two platforms would drastically increase overall player base, the xbox population of the game could be even smaller than it already is. And that could be a problem.

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That would be awesome, how has that worked in the past for other games with mouse vs controller, and with pc customisation/enhancements vs console? Do things workout fair?

If you removed Halo's reticule magnetism for the mouse I think, given a working ranking system, it would be fair throughout the majority of the skill gap. Top end mouse players would have an advantage with ease of sniping but with the pacing of the overall game IMO it's nothing that would truly get out of hand (again, can't stress enough the need for a working ranking system).

 

I think top end cross-platform FPS is overdue really, CSGO was originally intending to do it but unfortunately dropped that idea when they found out they couldn't update as easily or frequently for the Xbox version of the game. I say unfortunately, but in all honesty CSGO probably wouldn't be the game it is today if it was forced to be cross platform.

 

I'm going to try CSGO with pad in the next few weeks and see what rank I can maintain. If it's possible to keep pace in a game without any aim crutches then Halo would be a cake walk.

 

Yeah all of a sudden the modding community makes Halo 5 an amazing game on PC by removing sprint, smart scope, spartan abilities minus thrusters, bloom, spread, boost movement to compensate for PC aiming and it becomes a much superior game to H5 on console.

 

Every time 343 would be like "we can't do this" the community would go out of their way to find a way to make it work and just make them look like fools.

 

You think they want that? Halo Online has shown Microsoft can't deal with these things. On top of that, the Xbox One would honestly become even more of a waste than MCC made it look at the time it came out. 

The whole point of having it designed to be on the PC as well is to allow it to be more open and malleable. Create systems that let map designers create levels for the community, we're moving to dedicated servers after all, allow them to host maps for download and they'll eventually trickle onto the console. Create systems that let community members create their own skins / aesthetics for legit consumption (like every other game is doing).

 

The modding community can work in a healthy environment, it doesn't have to be this "you're a piece of shit developer we're going to gut your game" mentality. I don't think there's a single FPS game that doesn't have points of contention with its balance but for the majority of PC titles the end goal is to work with the developer to get the mainstream title improved, not splinter off into niche mods (obviously games like Arma that encourage modding are different). If it ends up creating meaningful change then that's great, developers at the end of the day aren't these little trolls that enjoy oppressing the people that play their games.  

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Or give the option for a cross platform playlist/mode. I doubt it would sustain any relevant population but I would definitely play in it.

 

That's a huge resource commitment for something that most people won't care about though. Not to mention PC players probably won't like playing a game that attempts to nerf their ability to get kills relative to console players.

 

I can't really see M$ investing in another cross platform game after Shadowrun tbh.

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I'm going to try CSGO with pad in the next few weeks and see what rank I can maintain. If it's possible to keep pace in a game without any aim crutches then Halo would be a cake walk.

CS has a lot more fighting on even ground so playing with a controller isn't outside the realm of possibility but I would think your sens would have to be insanely slow

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That's a huge resource commitment for something that most people won't care about though. Not to mention PC players probably won't like playing a game that attempts to nerf their ability to get kills relative to console players.

 

I can't really see M$ investing in another cross platform game after Shadowrun tbh.

 

I agree that it's a huge investment and most people won't worry care about it. Shadowrun was designed from the ground up with cross-platform in mind and it still had some issues. I really can't see any other game working unless they created it from scratch.

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CS has a lot more fighting on even ground so playing with a controller isn't outside the realm of possibility but I would think your sens would have to be insanely slow

It does but also at the same time it requires reticule precision followed by quicker coordination with the spray patterns. I'm thinking I'll create a toggle on my left trigger that halves my sensitivity so I can get the best of both worlds. There's also a 180° button that can be bound so that will help. 

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I think top end cross-platform FPS is overdue really

 

Same here, the split is so huge and both sides have huge followings. The excuses as just excuses - merging these is the next logical step for growing a franchise, someone just needs to man up and make it happen.

 

I would do anything to match against a PC elitist in a fair environment and whip their ass, and I bet the opposite would be true to. The gameplay would almost not even matter if the mouse vs controller thing was balanced well; people would play hardcore just to beat their counterparts. It would breed some fierce and intense competition.

 

The only problem would be balancing it; it would require constant tweaks because you couldn't get that perfect from alphas or betas - you would require probably a year of mouse vs controller slamming to fine-tune the variables.

 

The only other thing it would need is a mouse or controller icon next to everyone's name.

 

Also, don't controllers allow for better movement dexterity? I know aiming is easier cos you have an entire limb to to aim with instead of just your thumb, but having both hands comfortably around a controller to perform all other movements is superior to a single hand on a keyboard right?

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Same here, the split is so huge and both sides have huge followings. The excuses as just excuses - merging these is the next logical step for growing a franchise, someone just needs to man up and make it happen.

 

I would do anything to match against a PC elitist in a fair environment and whip their ass, and I bet the opposite would be true to. The gameplay would almost not even matter if the mouse vs controller thing was balanced well; people would play hardcore just to beat their counterparts. It would breed some fierce and intense competition.

 

The only problem would be balancing it; it would require constant tweaks because you couldn't get that perfect from alphas or betas - you would require probably a year of mouse vs controller slamming to fine-tune the variables.

 

The only other thing it would need is a mouse or controller icon next to everyones name.

 

I've looked into Shadowrun extensively, especially the cross platform testings that were done and they tested for well over a year with varied skilled players. I think it's impossible to get rid of nearly every issue but I wish there were more attempts at it. I don't see how a game like CoD wouldn't work out decently considering the heavy auto-aim / aim assist and bullet magnetism.

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Also, don't controllers allow for better movement dexterity? I know aiming is easier cos you have an entire limb to to aim with instead of just your thumb, but having both hands comfortably around a controller to perform all other movements is superior to a single hand on a keyboard right?

 

Key inputs are binary so you can't move at variable speeds unless you use a modifier key (usually shift in my case). A thumbstick lets you move at as wide a range of speeds and directions as the devs will put in the game. This makes stealth games like Splinter Cell vastly superior on a controller in my experience. On the flip side, you probably won't see something like Quake strafejumping on a controller (beyond a rudimentary level at least), as it requires extremely precise camera movement and the ability to change directions quickly if you want to actually fight while doing it.

 

So like everything else, it depends on the design of the game mechanics.

 

That's just movement though, having a keyboard also makes it much easier to perform multiple actions in quick succession like jumping, switching weapons, reloading, etc, stuff that forces controller users to claw if they want the same ability.

 

I'd love it if the two populations could be leveraged for things like map design, mods, that kind of thing, but I can't see myself wanting to get completely destroyed by people using a vastly superior control input, nor would I want to play on PC with a game that tries to limit my ability. Creating a game that plays well on both platforms and has fair gameplay between controllers and M/Kb is a ton of work and risk for not much benefit. From a dev/publisher perspective, what makes it better than just porting the game and keeping the populations separate, something which is far less costly, gets you the same sales, and has been proven to work many times before?

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Key inputs are binary so you can't move at variable speeds unless you use a modifier key (usually shift in my case). A thumbstick lets you move at as wide a range of speeds and directions as the devs will put in the game. This makes stealth games like Splinter Cell vastly superior on a controller in my experience. On the flip side, you probably won't see something like Quake strafejumping on a controller (beyond a rudimentary level at least), as it requires extremely precise camera movement and the ability to change directions quickly if you want to actually fight while doing it.

 

So like everything else, it depends on the design of the game mechanics.

 

That's just movement though, having a keyboard also makes it much easier to perform multiple actions in quick succession like jumping, switching weapons, reloading, etc, stuff that forces controller users to claw if they want the same ability.

 

I'd love it if the two populations could be leveraged for things like map design, mods, that kind of thing, but I can't see myself wanting to get completely destroyed by people using a vastly superior control input, nor would I want to play on PC with a game that tries to limit my ability. Creating a game that plays well on both platforms and has fair gameplay between controllers and M/Kb is a ton of work and risk for not much benefit. From a dev/publisher perspective, what makes it better than just porting the game and keeping the populations separate, something which is far less costly, gets you the same sales, and has been proven to work many times before?

This is why I was hoping this generation of controller would be different. The xbox one controller was suppose to have all of these improvements, but the missed the real game changer. Putting ABXY on the back of the controller so that you didn't have to sacrifice moving a thumbstick to press a button. Maybe its that casual crowds prefer controllers how they are. Scufs, Cinch, Battle Beaver, all are making money of an enhancement that should have already happened.

I'm crossing my fingers for the controller catered to the hardcore crowds that M$ will talk about at E3, but its not like they haven't let me down before.

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This is why I was hoping this generation of controller would be different. The xbox one controller was suppose to have all of these improvements, but the missed the real game changer. Putting ABXY on the back of the controller so that you didn't have to sacrifice moving a thumbstick to press a button. Maybe its that casual crowds prefer controllers how they are. Scufs, Cinch, Battle Beaver, all are making money of an enhancement that should have already happened.

I'm crossing my fingers for the controller catered to the hardcore crowds that M$ will talk about at E3, but its not like they haven't let me down before.

 

100% agree, you've got all these fingers just sitting on the back of the controller doing nothing, adding some buttons or paddles on the bottom that you could hit with your middle fingers seems like such a no-brainer.

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It does but also at the same time it requires reticule precision followed by quicker coordination with the spray patterns. I'm thinking I'll create a toggle on my left trigger that halves my sensitivity so I can get the best of both worlds. There's also a 180° button that can be bound so that will help. 

you'd probably still outfrag me with me using m&k but that sounds like an awful experience

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Cross platform play would only make sense on a per playlist basis IMO, on the competitive side an equal playing field is a must so PC vs XB1 is a huge no no IMO, that being said I see no reason why you can't play more social playlists together.

 

But yeah honestly just selling the games separately on different platforms would be huge for halo.

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This is why I was hoping this generation of controller would be different. The xbox one controller was suppose to have all of these improvements, but the missed the real game changer. Putting ABXY on the back of the controller so that you didn't have to sacrifice moving a thumbstick to press a button. Maybe its that casual crowds prefer controllers how they are. Scufs, Cinch, Battle Beaver, all are making money of an enhancement that should have already happened.

I'm crossing my fingers for the controller catered to the hardcore crowds that M$ will talk about at E3, but its not like they haven't let me down before.

I was surprised they didn't go with paddles on the Bone controller after how popular SCUFs got last gen.

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What I'm about to say might me come off as a conspiracy theorist because what I'm going to say is pure speculation but I feel like it needs to be addressed regardless. I feel like the real reason why 343 is putting a delay with using the thruster pack and being able to shoot isn't to "balance" it but is put there to be a handicap for the PC players that will be playing cross platform play when the windows 10 port of Halo 5 comes out. I have a feeling it is put there so PC players won't end up dominating console players. Anyways regardless of the real reason that 343 is doing this, I find it insulting to do this to the competitive Halo community. There's no good reason to try to make a artificial skill cap for the game by limiting what individual players can do because the skill ceiling and skill floor are already low due to the limitations of what you can do with a controller. I feel like 343 should allow the skill gap and skill ceiling/cap to naturally develop instead of trying to create one by limiting what individual players can do in game. Players shouldn't be restricted when playing arena FPS games, players should be able to shoot at all times when using the spartan abilities and should be empowered to be able to make individual plays and shouldn't feel restricted when playing. Halo 5's mechanics/movement should feel fluid not clunky.

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