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Halo 5: Guardians Discussion

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The reason CoD became huge despite Halo 2 and 3 still being available, is because until Halo, CoD kept things fairly copacetic from title to title (with the odd exceptions here or there), all the while Halo drastically changed into something else completely. 

That's not true at all. Ghosts was considered one of the worst CoD games to date and AW threw EVERYTHING conventional out of the window.

 

The main difference is that you don't see pros / figures with a decent following bitching about the game and calling it shit on every social media possible. You don't see them quitting. Sure there are occasional quirks and banters, but they stick to it and keep pushing content out and try to make it work. They slide their feedback at devs when there's room for it. When Halo went to shit, 95% of pros disappeared from the face of Earth and went MIA. All of a sudden, good news for Halo, and everyone's back.

 

People with a following don't understand how easy it is for them to push content out and keep a game relevant. Of course, if you drop the game, then there's a good chance your following will end up doing the same. Imagine all if the top 16 team pros streamed Halo even twice a week, similar to how CoD pros do. Even a game like Halo 4 could be in the top 20 most viewed on Twitch. This is the kind interest we need to grow in numbers. Content. Livestreams are good, but YouTube is an even more popular platform. I don't understand what's so hard about it.

 

It's easy to blame it all on the game or devs, and trust me, while I do not blame pros for not wanting to create content for H4, there are available options out there. H3, H2V and even XBC would still be viable options if there were people to create an interest in them.

 

I know I cannot wait for MCC to drop because I'll be going on a massive content grind.

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That's not true at all. Ghosts was considered one of the worst CoD games to date and AW threw EVERYTHING conventional out of the window.

 

Ghosts and AW are both long, LONG after Halo 2 and Halo 3 were past their prime. CoD began taking over MLG long before Ghosts & AW, so moot point.

 

Also, pros didn't quit Halo right when Reach came out either. It wasn't until Halo 4 was out for a while that a lot of pros abandoned it. And even then, there were quite a few that stuck with it. The difference is, when Halo 4 came out, the competitive scene for Halo was nowhere near as large as CoD was when Ghosts came out. Even the slightest hit to Halo's competitive scene could have crippled it, especially with the CoD scene growing at the same time.

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Ghosts and AW are both long, LONG after Halo 2 and Halo 3 were past their prime. CoD began taking over MLG long before Ghosts & AW, so moot point.

 

Also, pros didn't quit Halo right when Reach came out either. It wasn't until Halo was out for a while that a lot of pros abandoned it. And even then, there were quite a few that stuck with it. The difference is, when Halo 4 came out, the competitive scene for Halo was nowhere near as large as CoD was when Ghosts came out. Even the slightest hit to Halo's competitive scene could have crippled it, especially with the CoD scene growing at the same time.

I see where you're coming from, but seeing how negative the response to Ghosts was, and how low the population peaked at, don't you think that game could have marked the fall of CoD if pros had stopped supporting it? AW coming after that as a foreign game to the series would also have alienated a bunch of people (and to be fair, the response to that game is also VERY mixed, and it's still in the honeymoon phase. That tells a lot.

 

I mean sure, there were tournaments with prize money, no one can take away from that, but I mean, aside from the teams who do good at the championships, a lot of teams get their income from streaming and sponsors. Tournaments don't do THAT much. 

 

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that it would help a ton if more pros produced content. Both themselves as individuals and organizations, but also the overall interest in the game. I guess it's been said anyway, and I'm sure some are starting to realize it.

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That's not true at all. Ghosts was considered one of the worst CoD games to date and AW threw EVERYTHING conventional out of the window.

 

The main difference is that you don't see pros / figures with a decent following bitching about the game and calling it shit on every social media possible. You don't see them quitting. Sure there are occasional quirks and banters, but they stick to it and keep pushing content out and try to make it work. They slide their feedback at devs when there's room for it. When Halo went to shit, 95% of pros disappeared from the face of Earth and went MIA. All of a sudden, good news for Halo, and everyone's back.

 

People with a following don't understand how easy it is for them to push content out and keep a game relevant. Of course, if you drop the game, then there's a good chance your following will end up doing the same. Imagine all if the top 16 team pros streamed Halo even twice a week, similar to how CoD pros do. Even a game like Halo 4 could be in the top 20 most viewed on Twitch. This is the kind interest we need to grow in numbers. Content. Livestreams are good, but YouTube is an even more popular platform. I don't understand what's so hard about it.

 

It's easy to blame it all on the game or devs, and trust me, while I do not blame pros for not wanting to create content for H4, there are available options out there. H3, H2V and even XBC would still be viable options if there were people to create an interest in them.

 

I know I cannot wait for MCC to drop because I'll be going on a massive content grind.

 

Ehhhh to be fair all that stuff you listed.... CoD Pros do that because that's how they make a living... At the time there was no living to be made playing Halo because there was no developer support and no MLG(other venue) support. In all honestly someone like Ninja, Naded or another popular streamer/pro couldn't have saved H4 no matter how much content they put out.

 

I honestly believe a game being a successful esport has way less to do with competitive merit and pro/personality support and more to do with developers and other esports companies throwing big money at it and its pros. 

 

If those contracts went away and the money and branding of these players stopped...I'm guessing we start to hear quite bit more grumbling and players moving on. But for now...they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds.

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Ehhhh to be fair all that stuff you listed.... CoD Pros do that because that's how they make a living... 

 

(snip)

You do understand that you don't need dev support to produce content right? You just need a decent personality or something you can provide viewers with. Usually pros have the required skill to pull it off and in most cases, that alone is enough. The rest is just a matter of how much time you're willing to put into it to make your content entertaining and consistent.

 

I didn't mean to claim anyone could have saved Halo 4. Don't get me wrong. It was a recipe for disaster by design. What I meant to say is that if a lot of pros did stream Halo (and I threw Halo 4 as an example of how even THAT could have worked), then it would draw interest and new people towards Halo. Right now, we have a lot of veterans and very little people coming in. Let's say, theoretically, that whatever Halo game was on Twitch's front page all the time, it would bring in a lot of new people, and everyone would benefit from it, pros first.

 

And that's how you grow a game and views, and turn it into something that's possible to live off of. Sure, sponsors and tournaments are amazing, but it has to start somewhere. 

 

As for being a successful eSport, I agree with you. That's where the dev comes in. But as for growing the interest, that is something that for the most part, the players have to do. No one buys a game because the dev says "hey it's the best game of its genre and does something new!". It's gotten so cliche at this point, it means nothing. Players create the interest by sharing their experiences with others, and it's even easier coming from people with a big following.

 

Trying not to get too off-topic here, but I hope this made sense. Anyhow, I think this will work out a lot better now that Halo will have a unified hub on Twitch for all Halo games via MCC. The shared views will be a lot higher and it will prove to be very beneficial.

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You do understand that you don't need dev support to produce content right? You just need a decent personality or something you can provide viewers with. Usually pros have the required skill to pull it off and in most cases, that alone is enough. The rest is just a matter of how much time you're willing to put into it to make your content entertaining and consistent.

 

I didn't mean to claim anyone could have saved Halo 4. Don't get me wrong. It was a recipe for disaster by design. What I meant to say is that if a lot of pros did stream Halo (and I threw Halo 4 as an example of how even THAT could have worked), then it would draw interest and new people towards Halo. Right now, we have a lot of veterans and very little people coming in. Let's say, theoretically, that whatever Halo game was on Twitch's front page all the time, it would bring in a lot of new people, and everyone would benefit from it, pros first.

 

And that's how you grow a game and views, and turn it into something that's possible to live off of. Sure, sponsors and tournaments are amazing, but it has to start somewhere. 

 

As for being a successful eSport, I agree with you. That's where the dev comes in. But as for growing the interest, that is something that for the most part, the players have to do. No one buys a game because the dev says "hey it's the best game of its genre and does something new!". It's gotten so cliche at this point, it means nothing. Players create the interest by sharing their experiences with others, and it's even easier coming from people with a big following.

 

Trying not to get too off-topic here, but I hope this made sense. Anyhow, I think this will work out a lot better now that Halo will have a unified hub on Twitch for all Halo games via MCC. The shared views will be a lot higher and it will prove to be very beneficial.

 

Yes, he understands that. What he's saying is a lot of pros left because it was a garbage game, and without dev and MLG support, they couldn't make a living playing Halo, regardless of if they generated content or not.

 

Ninja is an obvious exception, but even he took a hit with Halo 4 as far as viewers and such. Other pros tried to stream, but no matter what they did, it wasn't going to be enough to be a bankable ROI for them on its own.

 

That's what he's saying.

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Ninja is an obvious exception, but even he took a hit with Halo 4 as far as viewers and such. Other pros tried to stream, but no matter what they did, it wasn't going to be enough to be a bankable ROI for them on its own.

That's the thing. If you start with the mindset that you can live off of it right off the bat, then you're never gonna make it work.

 

Ninja isn't the best of all Halo players ever. Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna discredit his skill. He's where he deserves to be. But the exception you talk about is the fact that he stuck to it when no one else did. Same with Naded. Hell even T2 came back out of the blue and he pulls solid viewers. Don't even get me started on someone like Roy or Pistola created content.

 

The point is that it's a long process, a long grind, and for a while, far from profitable for the time input that is required. But at the end of the day, that one extra person who produces content contributed to creating interest in Halo and bringing some extra people along the ride, and overall, making it a more viable option.

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That's the thing. If you start with the mindset that you can live off of it right off the bat, then you're never gonna make it work.

 

Ninja isn't the best of all Halo players ever. Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna discredit his skill. He's where he deserves to be. But the exception you talk about is the fact that he stuck to it when no one else did. Same with Naded. Hell even T2 came back out of the blue and he pulls solid viewers. Don't even get me started on someone like Roy or Pistola created content.

 

The point is that it's a long process, a long grind, and for a while, far from profitable for the time input that is required. But at the end of the day, that one extra person who produces content contributed to creating interest in Halo and bringing some extra people along the ride, and overall, making it a more viable option.

 

Ninja doesn't have the viewers he has because he's the best.

 

He has them because people (his viewers, anyway) love his personality because he's vibrant and eccentric or whatever. And he's a pretty good sniper, all things considered.

 

What I'm saying is not everyone can replicate that, and many have tried. It just doesn't work when 1) you're playing an exclusive game, as compared to CoD which is multi-platform and automatically has a larger install base, and 2) you're streaming a game that the community largely considers to be fucking terrible.

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Extra mobility works for games like Titanfall and Advance Warfare is because they're twitch shooters where you Kill quick and Die Quick. The mobility helps these games to increase the skill gap and traverse the maps faster. Before COD's  gunfights was about The one who shoots first guarantees the kill 80% of the time, but with the inclusion of the Booster packs(?) you can now avoid dying from being shot from the back by Double Jumping or Boosting Sideways and potentially escape or kill the opponent. Then it had also greatly hurt camping over all as someone could just jump and smack your ass anywhere.

 

But Halo is Halo, you do not die in this game in a split second each encounter gives you a chance to fight back thanks to your Mjolnir. Camping and Bad Spawns isn't really a big issue in this franchise compared to other shooters. And I'd imagine that it'll be hell to implement these thing to halo, heck they didn't even do a good job implementing load outs.

 

Not gonna lie though Wall running and Double Jumping in Titanfall was fun as fuck. 

 

MCC

 

The only game they made in that collection is the game that people will most likely avoid.

 

Now that just aint good science, man!

 

They made Reach better, for the most part. They got control way after release. So we'll give 'em a 5/10 on that. Made it much better, too late (wasn't really their fault either).

 

H4 sucked, yeah, I'll give ya that. But it was rushed, and they were disorganized because they were still setting up shop and shit. 

 

But those were really the only two times that 343 had an opportunity to even "do Halo properly". And Reach was really kinda a small fix. And for as small fix as it was, it was pretty darn good. Now they're gonna have had work being done on H5 for like 3 years. 

 

Doesn't look to me like the experiment has been repeated enough to make such a claim in that direction. 

 

They put a band-aid on Reach to keep people on the Hype train for their Frankenstein version of Halo.

 

Anyway, if this is all true, after this weekend, then I'm sure 343 will drop a few 'b-b-but it feels like Halo' lines to keep everyone from completely freaking out, just like H4.

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This whole thing will be so funny if these rumors are wrong and halo 5 ends up being the best game is the franchise

To an extent, these rumours can't be wrong because of what we saw in the teaser trailer with ground pound etc.

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This whole thing will be so funny if these rumors are wrong and halo 5 ends up being the best game is the franchise

 

How is a first hand account of someone actually playing it a rumor? 

 

Unless he didnt.

 

But come one man... you seriously think sprint and all this other COD crap isnt going to be in H5?

come onnnnn... really?

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How is a first hand account of someone actually playing it a rumor? 

 

Unless he didnt.

 

But come one man... you seriously think sprint and all this other COD crap isnt going to be in H5?

come onnnnn... really?

because there's no proof whatsoever this is real beyond some italy pros saying he's a legit reporter. even if he played the game, he most likely sucks at reporting sincesome of the things he's said were proven wrong several times

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How is a first hand account of someone actually playing it a rumor? 

 

Unless he didnt.

 

But come one man... you seriously think sprint and all this other COD crap isnt going to be in H5?

come onnnnn... really?

Did you even read this thing. It's not really sprint as we know it... and the other stuff isn't from COD (originally). I even saw somebody else here mention camo as a spartan ability... come on guys.

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Reading the article and the replies in this thread make me chuckle......

Sorry, but I just have to say it... I chuckle at the fact that you just got done repeating what you just chuckled at... lol...

 

But on a serious note, don't you think that the features are straight out of the CoD commercials on TV? It isn't Halo any more.

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I hate beating a dead horse but Halo 5 simply wont last as a carbon copy of the old classic Halos. Trust me, I am all for the classic halo feel and its what I prefer, but with Console FPS evolving and the gaming industry in general evolving, there will be crap in this game nobody likes. There will be things like sprint, double jumps, climbing over walls, ground pound that all sound horrible and are not true to original halo. People are going to freak out. All I ask, is we wait till we play the Beta, see how these things were implemented, make constructive criticism and try to make an end product that is a viable, fun, and good game. We can only hope that 343 has learned from their mistakes (H4). They have hired a lot of former halo pros we trust and love and while I know the game has to evolve, everything 343 has been pushing lately between MCC and E-sports suggests they at least get the message. Lets just play the beta and hope we can make H5 a game that can keep the community together and hopefully rejuvenate the franchise and that will allow us to support the halo brand for the future. One thing COD does right is no matter how shitty the game, they support it and make it stay at the top. This is what we need to do with Halo. Give our feedback, help make the game good, and support the community.

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uhh...wouldn't someone from 343 have posted on a forum or tweeted about this info being false by now? Frankie posted about the split-screen issue not too long after it became an issue in the community..

 

just thinking out loud here... :weback:

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uhh...wouldn't someone from 343 have posted on a forum or tweeted about this info being false by now? Frankie posted about the split-screen issue not too long after it became an issue in the community..

 

just thinking out loud here... :weback:

 

Cause it's true, and everyone in the know, knows

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Cause it's true, and everyone in the know, knows

Yep, seems like it. Another example was how Fast Bravo responded about that "Halo5 Placeholder" back in April/May before it got officially announced.

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Cause it's true, and everyone in the know, knows

 

ok....who's handing out the pitchforks? i'll light the torches..

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ok....who's handing out the pitchforks? i'll light the torches..

Or we can provide constructive feedback from the beta since we're getting it a year before it releases (which one can gather is the reason why they're doing it to begin with).

 

That kind of stuff goes a long way.

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I hate beating a dead horse but Halo 5 simply wont last as a carbon copy of the old classic Halos. Trust me, I am all for the classic halo feel and its what I prefer, but with Console FPS evolving and the gaming industry in general evolving, there will be crap in this game nobody likes. There will be things like sprint, double jumps, climbing over walls, ground pound that all sound horrible and are not true to original halo. People are going to freak out. All I ask, is we wait till we play the Beta, see how these things were implemented, make constructive criticism and try to make an end product that is a viable, fun, and good game. We can only hope that 343 has learned from their mistakes (H4). They have hired a lot of former halo pros we trust and love and while I know the game has to evolve, everything 343 has been pushing lately between MCC and E-sports suggests they at least get the message. Lets just play the beta and hope we can make H5 a game that can keep the community together and hopefully rejuvenate the franchise and that will allow us to support the halo brand for the future. One thing COD does right is no matter how shitty the game, they support it and make it stay at the top. This is what we need to do with Halo. Give our feedback, help make the game good, and support the community.

 

Everybody keeps saying that halo wont last when it is like a classic halo but I have not heard a good reason why that is... Halo sold fine without the crap they have been putting in with reach and 4 and the population was bigger then its now.

 

I think Saucey said it earlier in this thread... Change is not bad, but it should not change halo as it was. Stuff the OP has written will change, just as halo 4 did, what halo is. If they want to change the ip why not make a new ip and play with that?? Maybe because it wont sell then because it will just be another cod/titanfall clone??

 

Sprint, double jump, wall climbing/running and all this other stuff will make the maps so bad and large because they will not dare to make the maps small. That will make casuals get destroyed by skilled players.

 

Putting stuff in for the casual player or to attract new players can be done in other ways then to change halo formula. For example: look at the random drops in games of valve: csgo, dota2 and team fortress. You would not even have to ask money to open stuff (could be nice way to get extra money for maps/tournaments instead of payed dlc) and the casuals will stay just to get that one legendary helmet or gun skin. This is only 1 example how to attract the casuals in your game without changing halo and there are many more. 

 

For all that... I do not believe what the OP is telling it true. I would not understand why they would go this route while all major games are doing it and when you have a community who was very clear with how halo 4 went. But we will see in a few days.

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Or we can provide constructive feedback from the beta since we're getting it a year before it releases (which one can gather is the reason why they're doing it to begin with).

 

That kind of stuff goes a long way.

Well unfortunately providing feedback or not really doesn't help at all, we have been putting feedback on forums for years with still little change.  Sure some of them read are forum post but nothing really gets executed, we still have throwing the oddball an hitmarkers in H2A, flamethrowers on Halo 1 maps in the MCC, a copy pasted Halo 4 forge map.  Then for Halo 5 we have all this gimmicky stuff you can see clear as day in the trailer, you can be positive all you want while I be a negative forum go'er.  But lets be honest they don't listen.

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