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stylo90

Halo Community Has Too Much Say in the Game

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ANALOGY TIME (Heh heh.. I just fit ‘Anal’ into my blog!)

 

 

And with that, his point ceases all legitimacy 

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I think it would be much easier to make Halo if less attention were paid to fans.

 

Paying attention and attempting to address our criticisms anyways is an admirable choice, even if not everyone thinks said attempts succeeded in the end.

 

The next Halo is 343's first attempt to learn from direct criticism of their work as a studio, and I hope it results in a game that appeals to more people of all skill levels and interests, and even people who have always had issues with Halo.

 

Competitive viability, mass market acceptance, and an evolution of halo design in general.  Not simply a refined Halo 1 or 2 with 60fps and dedicated servers, but carrying on the feel and spirit of those games (gameplay-wise) and executing on it better than even they did.

 

"Make this game the absolute best game in the series and an evolutionary step in game design" is a tall order, of course.  That's my pie-in-the-sky hope, but I also just want it to at least be a really good game that feels like Halo.

 

But think, how many people wanted the stuff halo 4 has? So who exactly were they paying attention to.

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If we actually had say in the game, we MIGHT have a playable Halo game right now.

 

I'd say 90% of us knew the game was total garbage after a few weeks and said "No sprint, add descope, toggle waypoint markers, add arena size maps, add assault, etc. etc."

 

If we actually had say people would be playing a solid H4 right now. Instead, I've sold my game and used the credits to buy ODST, which is like 7 years old now

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If we actually had say in the game, we MIGHT have a playable Halo game right now.

 

I'd say 90% of us knew the game was total garbage after a few weeks and said "No sprint, add descope, toggle waypoint markers, add arena size maps, add assault, etc. etc."

 

If we actually had say people would be playing a solid H4 right now. Instead, I've sold my game and used the credits to buy ODST, which is like 7 years old now

Don't forget no 'X' indicators. 

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But think, how many people wanted the stuff halo 4 has? So who exactly were they paying attention to.

Halo 4 went back to a lot of things Reach took away and changed some of the features that reach introduced for the better. (majority of AAs far better than Reach's equivelant, bloom gone or reduced til mainly just visual effect, jump more floaty, ect.)  There was a clear attempt at responding to community requests and criticism.  It didn't end up being enough for most of the hardcore (not without reason) but it was an attempt nonetheless.

 

Yes, people asked for default sprint, customizable loadouts, AAs to stay, ect.  Maybe not you, or most of the hardcore competitive community, but many people asked for those things.

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It's articles and people like that, that make me really feel like competitive Halo has no future.  It would be nice to see some counter articles to this dude.

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Counter Strike has been the same for well over a decade and it has one of the best competitive scenes to date. lol.  

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Nah he's trolling bro's:

 

 

 

He has got to be trolling

Did we find Shootin Sammy's Twitter?

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Honestly though, this isn't completely false. Somehow after Halo 2, the games started to get worse. The devs started to dumb the game down, and some of the additions were probably suggestions from the community. Killstreaks? Somebody asked for it. Sprint? After running like quicksand in Halo 3 BTB, people wanted it. People didn't like the long range DMR battles in Reach, so Flinch was born. Others have been asking for custom clases since they spawned with an SMG on Coagulation. There are people who are still hellbent on bringing ADS to Halo too. Obviously these players tend to not make up the 'core' fanbase (whatever that is and assuming it even still exists at this point), but when it comes to adding new stuff to the game, they're probably where it's going to come from. Remember the whole "hiring people who hate Halo" philosophy was put in place to bring outside influence to the game. 

 

As it has already been said, responding to the community is good, and it's one of the things Halo usually does better than most dev-fanbase relationships. However, the devs need to have a sense of their game and a control to compare and test any additions against. The problem Halo has right now is that nobody can decide on what that control group is because there are 3 different generations of Halo players - Classic (CE), Legacy (H2/H3) and Hybrid (Reach/H4). If the TU playlists in Reach are any indication, nobody has the balls to put their foot on the ground and say "This is the way we're playing the game now". There ends up being a million settings in matchmaking, the majority of which still consist of mechanics that have driven away the aforementioned core base and severed the game's longevity. We can't really do any tests when there's nobody around to participate.

 

Whether its online or elsewhere, Halo will always have a vocal community. People can try and twist the reality around all they like, but the onus is on the developers to take that feedback and lay the ground rules to go from. If they trudge forward with an ambiguous, absent-minded and unclear vision for the future of the series, that chorus is going to disappear.  

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Did we find Shootin Sammy's Twitter?

 

 

I cannot believe this guy. The article was one thing but this is straight up delusion. 

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Honestly though, this isn't completely false. Somehow after Halo 2, the games started to get worse. The devs started to dumb the game down, and some of the additions were probably suggestions from the community. Killstreaks? Somebody asked for it. Sprint? After running like quicksand in Halo 3 BTB, people wanted it. Custom Classes? People asked for that since forever. Hell, there are people still asking for ADS. Obviously these players tend to not make up the 'core' fanbase (whatever that is and assuming it still even exists), but when it comes to adding new stuff to the game, that's probably where it's going to come from.

 

As it has already been said, responding to the community is good. However, the devs need to have a sense of their game and a control to compare and test any additions against. The problem Halo has right now is that nobody can decide on what that control group is because there are 3 different generations of Halo players.  

 

You're forgetting that there are already a plethora of games who provide this.

Halo was successful because it was an ARENA shooter, with a specific style and niche. 

 

ADS, Sprint, Loadouts... You just described Call of Duty. Why make Halo like Call of Duty when a game already exists with exactly those "assets"?

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I feel like there is a single underlying reason on why someone would write this babble... It seems he his still overly salty that he was not invited to the weapon tuning update to be "wine and dined" as he so eloquently mentioned. Kinda feel bad for him...

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You're forgetting that there are already a plethora of games who provide this.

Halo was successful because it was an ARENA shooter, with a specific style and niche. 

 

ADS, Sprint, Loadouts... You just described Call of Duty. Why make Halo like Call of Duty when a game already exists with exactly those "assets"?

I'm aware of the other games. It's likely because the games with those features that people started to ask for them. Too many times I've heard people hop on Halo and ask "Why can't I Sprint like other shooters?". It's one thing if you explain the drawbacks to someone well versed in the game, but another if you explain it to an outsider who probably doesn't understand enough about it to care if the answer isn't "Yes, you can Sprint". They're likely to put the game down and play something they're more familiar with (like CoD). The devs must have figured that they could get some of those players to buy the game if those features were included. New features and players are nice and all, until they start driving away everybody else. 

 

I'd say Halo was successful because it popularized innovations on the genre with its own winning formula. It's where it is now because it started to follow other games' formulas to try and stay relevant while simultaneously muddying its own formula. Being dethroned by a "more accessible" shooter like CoD was inevitable, but falling out of the top 10 is simply the result of screwing everyone else over. 

 

It doesn't appear to be too difficult to get back on track. To reference my earlier post, it's hard to make a concrete test when there are 3 different control groups. There will always be good and bad ideas no matter where they come from, so it comes down to how that input is processed and what it's tested against. Somebody at 343 needs to put on their Jason Jones mask, walk into the conference room one day and say "This is Halo. Let's make it better". Dancing around ambiguity to avoid stepping on toes is going to get us nowhere.

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Pretty sure community was defined as the minority who pour themselves into Halo outlets beyond the game not just the tournament sub-set. With that reading some of the points start to make sense. Maybe you should just harass him on twitter, that'll be sure to change his mind...

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Pretty sure community was defined as the minority who pour themselves into Halo outlets beyond just the game not just the tournament sub-set. With that reading some of the points start to make sense. Maybe you should just harass him on twitter, that'll be sure to change his mind...

The community is good at that lately

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Pretty sure community was defined as the minority who pour themselves into Halo outlets beyond the game not just the tournament sub-set. With that reading some of the points start to make sense. Maybe you should just harass him on twitter, that'll be sure to change his mind...

Where has anyone implied members like him are not part of the community?

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The community is good at that lately

:( 

 

Where has anyone implied members like him are not part of the community?

Read the thread, people are taking the definition far too personally. The severe reaction against the idea that the community is 'getting its own way' shows exactly how fragmented the community is. Even in this thread of ~50 users we are divided by opinion.

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:(

 

Read the thread, people are taking the definition far too personally. The severe reaction against the idea that the community is 'getting its own way' shows exactly how fragmented the community is. Even in this thread of ~50 users we are divided by opinion.

 

Having so many different viewpoints does make it incredibly hard to state something like "the community got their own way". I only really got involved after Gagnon outright denied the loss in players after release date. 

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Having so many different viewpoints does make it incredibly hard to state something like "the community got their own way". I only really got involved after Gagnon outright denied the loss in players after release date. 

Majority rules. Take an example closer to home in the great settings debate of 2k13 where the 'competitive community' both won and lost simultaneously on a number of game defining decisions. Apply that to the wider vocal community (those sites people always complain about) and you start to see the problem of listening to community feedback.

 

Like I said originally, some of the points make sense i.e. not all of them. Reading his twitter he obviously had no clue about Halo population statistics but I don't think it lends as much weight to the competitive position as people think it does.  

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Majority rules. Take an example closer to home in the great settings debate of 2k13 where the 'competitive community' both won and lost simultaneously on a number of game defining decisions. Apply that to the wider vocal community (those sites people always complain about) and you start to see the problem of listening to community feedback.

 

Like I said originally, some of the points make sense i.e. not all of them. Reading his twitter he obviously had no clue about Halo population statistics but I don't think it lends as much weight to the competitive position as people think it does.  

The only thing you can categorically state is that it shows dissatisfaction/lack of longevity. Everything after that is how convincingly people can put an argument together that it displays something more. 

 

By the way, I agree with Gagnon on some points. The community shouldn't be listened to. Case in point "Halo should get 32v32 multiplayer". The question is, compare a Waypointers "It'll be more people therefore more fun" argument to K2's argument about Sprint..... Should 343i not listen to K2 because its "community feedback"?

 

Heck, they should take anyone's feedback from anyone who can put a solid argument together. The only issue is, I haven't seen many empirical arguments outside of Beyond. (Probably partially my own fault for not digging) 

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Gotta give it to him, he is  hilarious in a very sad way.

 

And totally wrong about all those thousands of words he wrote.

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