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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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I agree that if you all have your own screens then obv its a non issue. I assumed that since xbone is so new and somewhat expensive not everyone that LANs with be able to bring their own xbox also this is a remake that 343 has said will be true to the original. Many of us would like to play this remake just like we have been playing the original, using split screen on LAN. 

 

Also if you have been lanning halo1 since 2007 with everyone on their own screen you are a noob. If you have been lanning halo1 since 2007 using split screen then you should know why this massive FOV difference is a big deal. If you have been lanning halo 1 split and you don't understand why this is a big deal, then you are either ignorant or an idiot or both. Based on your previous posts on this forum, and your own admission you are not an expert on halo 1, ie a noob. So its not surprising that you don't understand this issue which all veteran players are concerned about. 

 

I've been lanning CE since 2003.  Check that reading comprehension.  I've lanned it fullscreen.  I've lanned it splitscreen.  I've lanned it 4-split.  I've lanned against local noobs.  I've lanned against Puckett, Shade, ChaosTheory, DinoMike, Pwnytar, Shibby, the list goes on.  I GET IT.  Your assumptions about me are embarrassing.  The FOV is nice.  I would like to have it back too.  

 

But its not worth whining about like a spoiled brat.  You are getting something amazing.  Something you thought would never happen.  Its not going to kill you to play full screen in 2014.

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Sound whoring all day.

If you can't hear people spawning across midship, you ain't playing the game right. (or dying across HH in you CE guys case)

 

I don't blame cheeser players for sound whoring. I blame short sighted devs who think spawn noise is a good thing.

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Yeah so it isn't a big deal... to you.

 

But do you do things like:

 

Your team is 2 dead on Hang Em High, you've just spawned under blue pistol, your 4th player is alive in middle trench, unseen at the moment. Player 2 spawns in 1 second, player 3 spawns in 4. The enemies are at top blue, and camo, controlling the map.

 

You have to know to not move off spawn to force a blue pistol spawn, and then THAT player has to make a judgement call, to block his spawn and force a random, or to move off of it and spawn player 3 with him.

 

In either case, you need to not move that entire time or you'll risk spawning player 3 down underneath blue pistol with you (a poor position)

 

All this time 4th player can fight if seen, but he needs to stay centered in the trench or near the snipe structure. If he ventures too far near the window, he'll risk spawning players 2 and 3 at the bottom window/ramp spawns, more poor positions. If he moves too far the other way he'll risk spawning his teammates near bottom red pistol, easily spawn killed from camo.

 

Do you think that all of that information can be easily and efficiently relayed over a mic? Halo 2 and beyond communication mostly consists of screaming locations of enemies and their level of damage.

 

Great post, but I thought the FOV only affected 2-split.  I was under the impression that the 4-split FOV was the same as full screen, in both the original and MCC.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  There is certainly some info I've missed in this thread.  When I check this forum on my computer, it takes me to the newest page, unlike on mobile, where it takes right to where I left off.  That's why I missed your post before.  The thread is too big and moves too quickly for me to go hunting for specific posts.  My apologies.

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Great post, but I thought the FOV only affected 2-split.  I was under the impression that the 4-split FOV was the same as full screen, in both the original and MCC.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  There is certainly some info I've missed in this thread.  When I check this forum on my computer, it takes me to the newest page, unlike on mobile, where it takes right to where I left off.  That's why I missed your post before.  The thread is too big and moves too quickly for me to go hunting for specific posts.  My apologies.

 

I actually considered making the point about 4-split. I believe it will be an exact copy of the 86 degree fullscreen, so, not a big deal.

 

My point was to highlight the nuances of the halo spawn system, and to demonstrate that knowing down to the second information is incredibly important.

 

I could just as easily make a 2v2 scenario. You're behind red tower, partner on spawn. Enemies know you're about to give the hang-off random and are already pre-firing at that spot. It is possible for you to poke out and give that random and live through it, IF you know exaaaactly when they're spawning. Step out too soon and you're dead, too late and you've just given a bad spawn.

 

You should know how important this is, given the players you said you've played with. You should know that everyone moving to their own screens is a step backwards for Halo 1. Nobody wants to become less deadly by having horse blinders on.

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This debate about skill gap in correlation to split screen and full screen regarding team communication is very interesting. At the moment I'm in the middle. Whilst it is undoubtedly "faster" to just check your team mates screen, there is also undoubtedly a skill in verbally communicating with your team mate(s), being able to concentrate on shooting/aiming/moving whilst verbally calling out locations can be tough. It IS a skill. Look at how in a real battlefield in a military/soldier/war like scenario how crucial verbal (and hand signalling) communication is vital between comrades (team mates).

 

I think at this point in time, WEAPON SPAWN TIMES are much more important than split screen FOV. As for the mechanics on CE split screen feeling "tighter" and the pistol feeling more "solid", is there any actual evidence to back this up? How can split screen make the pistol mechanics suddenly feel more solid? This doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a logical stand point.

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Split screen IS Halo CE. 

We always had 4 xboxes and 4 tv's, and could have easily of ran 2's with each person having their own tv. Yet, we always played 2 people per TV because it is how CE is played. It has been like that for 12 years and there is no reason for them not to go through and fix it. From what I have heard, it would be a easy fix. 

I don't care if split screen increases or decreases the skill gap. It is just how my friends and I have played the game for over a decade. On top of that, I usually have at least 1 buddy over who wants to play. It will be a lot easier to run games with 2 people on my monitor instead of having 1 person play at a time. I hope some of you can understand this.  

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Split screen IS Halo CE. 

We always had 4 xboxes and 4 tv's, and could have easily of ran 2's with each person having their own tv. Yet, we always played 2 people per TV because it is how CE is played. It has been like that for 12 years and there is no reason for them not to go through and fix it. From what I have heard, it would be a easy fix. 

 

I don't care if split screen increases or decreases the skill gap. It is just how my friends and I have played the game for over a decade. On top of that, I usually have at least 1 buddy over who wants to play. It will be a lot easier to run games with 2 people on my monitor instead of having 1 person play at a time. I hope some of you can understand this.  

Real life friends? What is this 1998? 

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Split screen IS Halo CE. 

We always had 4 xboxes and 4 tv's, and could have easily of ran 2's with each person having their own tv. Yet, we always played 2 people per TV because it is how CE is played. It has been like that for 12 years and there is no reason for them not to go through and fix it. From what I have heard, it would be a easy fix. 

 

I don't care if split screen increases or decreases the skill gap. It is just how my friends and I have played the game for over a decade. On top of that, I usually have at least 1 buddy over who wants to play. It will be a lot easier to run games with 2 people on my monitor instead of having 1 person play at a time. I hope some of you can understand this.  

But I thought all CE players cared about was skill gap.  Not saying one takes more skill in the other, I'm just saying that's all you preach 24/7.  

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I actually considered making the point about 4-split. I believe it will be an exact copy of the 86 degree fullscreen, so, not a big deal.

 

My point was to highlight the nuances of the halo spawn system, and to demonstrate that knowing down to the second information is incredibly important.

 

I could just as easily make a 2v2 scenario. You're behind red tower, partner on spawn. Enemies know you're about to give the hang-off random and are already pre-firing at that spot. It is possible for you to poke out and give that random and live through it, IF you know exaaaactly when they're spawning. Step out too soon and you're dead, too late and you've just given a bad spawn.

 

You should know how important this is, given the players you said you've played with. You should know that everyone moving to their own screens is a step backwards for Halo 1. Nobody wants to become less deadly by having horse blinders on.

 

This is a great example, but I don't believe this is impossible on full screen.  CE players have not needed to develop extremely good communication like is necessary in later games, until now.  This type of thing is absolutely possible in 2v2 if both players understand the situation and know what needs to be said.  Its not out of the question for your partner to give you a Diesel-esque countdown if he understands what you need to do.  This is an opportunity for communication skill to shine.

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But I thought all CE players cared about was skill gap.  Not saying one takes more skill in the other, I'm just saying that's all you preach 24/7.  

Yes, that is correct, but it goes  way more than that, the game completely changes completely if persons are not able to splitscreen with the Original FOV, the game will turn into more yelling/calling out, which is something Halo CE players don't have to rely to if they know the spawns and how to influence them in a way that benefits their team, the skill gap is created at that moment when everyone knows exactly what to do and where to be when one teammate dies. No one has to yell or scream " One shot in my X" because teammate #2 instantaneously knows  exactly where he was and where he needs to be to get the best spawn point. Doing this kind of communication over a mic can SIGNIFICANTLY cost any team the game due to how fast paced CE is/delay in communication of the mic. That, sir is what they mean by the skillgap. 

 

Halo CE (in regards to spawn) is a whole different beast( that I have yet to fully understand) to the rest of the Halo games, that is the skillgap they talk and "preach" 24/7.

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This is a great example, but I don't believe this is impossible on full screen.  CE players have not needed to develop extremely good communication like is necessary in later games, until now.  This type of thing is absolutely possible in 2v2 if both players understand the situation and know what needs to be said.  Its not out of the question for your partner to give you a Diesel-esque countdown if he understands what you need to do.  This is an opportunity for communication skill to shine.

 

I've played fullscreen xbc with a partner on skype, its horrible in H1.  Death screen is too huge, you're losing so much information without it.  Top tier H1 is all about efficiency, knowing exactly when to throw a nade at a certain point or exactly where to move your retical in a split second based off of what's on your screen cannot be achieved as efficiently with call outs.  Screen watching is another whole level of skill gap in the H1 community, theres so many people who have sick shots but absolutely can't screen watch efficiently and more times than not that results in a tough series for their partner.  They aren't comparable, having another entire field of view on your screen is faster, more efficient and adds more dimension to the game than calling out ever could.  Also,  getting killed because i have to look away for a green arrow makes me want to break things.

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Yes, that is correct, but it goes  way more than that, the game completely changes completely if persons are not able to splitscreen with the Original FOV, the game will turn into more yelling/calling out, which is something Halo CE players don't have to rely to if they know the spawns and how to influence them in a way that benefits their team, the skill gap is created at that moment when everyone knows exactly what to do and where to be when one teammate dies. No one has to yell or scream " One shot in my X" because teammate #2 instantaneously knows  exactly where he was and where he needs to be to get the best spawn point. Doing this kind of communication over a mic can SIGNIFICANTLY cost any team the game due to how fast paced CE is/delay in communication of the mic. That, sir is what they mean by the skillgap. 

 

Halo CE (in regards to spawn) is a whole different beast( that I have yet to fully understand) to the rest of the Halo games, that is the skillgap they talk and "preach" 24/7.

I wasn't saying it one way or the other, I was just responding to Riot who said he doesn't care if it takes more skill, which was a weird thing to hear from a CE player.

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Being able to see your teammate's screen in Halo 1 allows for greater precision and deeper strategy because of what becomes consistently possible, just like how using a timer results in a deeper game when everyone knows the exact moment weapons will spawn.  Some "skill" seems to be lost at face value because the barrier of entry is lowered, but the game is deeper in the long run because players are able to consistently rely on more complex strategies.

 

As for Halo PC timers, yes, they are a big issue and we as a community should begin working towards getting them fixed as well.  Items not spawning in sync of course throws a wrench into how maps play, but they also create a slippery slope late game when one team secures power items and uses them to secure items spawning delayed.

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nope. and I agree with your feature wish

 

and to elaborate a little bit, I think they could do that fairly easily with their theater code. since theater is just a recreation based positions and inputs, they could do the same thing in real time and display it on your screen. All positions and inputs are already being sent to everybody anyway, obviously. Shit would be sick

 

or if twitch wasn't so delayed we could just setup a laptop/pc beside the tv and screen watch that way...this whole thing is just annoying..

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I wonder, if CE had a Doubles playlist, would it be possible to play "online split screen" where you could always see your teammate's screen even when he wasn't playing with you locally?

 

Edit: I agree with whoever brought this idea up first.

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Yes, that is correct, but it goes  way more than that, the game completely changes completely if persons are not able to splitscreen with the Original FOV, the game will turn into more yelling/calling out, which is something Halo CE players don't have to rely to if they know the spawns and how to influence them in a way that benefits their team, the skill gap is created at that moment when everyone knows exactly what to do and where to be when one teammate dies. No one has to yell or scream " One shot in my X" because teammate #2 instantaneously knows  exactly where he was and where he needs to be to get the best spawn point. Doing this kind of communication over a mic can SIGNIFICANTLY cost any team the game due to how fast paced CE is/delay in communication of the mic. That, sir is what they mean by the skillgap. 

 

Halo CE (in regards to spawn) is a whole different beast( that I have yet to fully understand) to the rest of the Halo games, that is the skillgap they talk and "preach" 24/7.

 

I feel as though you're using terms such as "yelling" at team mates to try and downplay the skill involved in doing so whilst focusing on aiming/shooting/moving themselves. Let's look at it in a real life combat scenario - marines/team mates on the battlefield are "yelling" at each other all the time. "Sniper on the bridge!", "Grenade!" etc etc. Soldiers on the battlefield don't have the privilege of having a FOV of their fellow comrades POV, so they rely on effective verbal communcation to work together as a unit. It requires skill and it is very difficult in a hectic/action packed environment. 

 

Again, I'm on the fence about the entire issue, because I can see the pros/cons of both arguments, but as of right now I feel as though CE players are completely neglecting the skill in teamwork and verbal communication it takes to physically call out positions whilst concentrating intently on multiple other things in the game.

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I won't deny that there is a skill and room to improve in player communication, but why force that issue? And like I said before, Halo 1 players still talk. 

 

If we had a 30 degree field of view then you'd REALLY have to communicate, right? The point is, chopping off one hand to make the other work harder is just silly. We should be striving to empower the players to be as fast and as deadly as possible, not conform to some people's entirely subjective opinion on what are the "right" type of skills for Halo.

 

Take 2 imaginary players of equal skill. They will OBJECTIVELY be a more formidable team on 1 screen. The total game knowledge is transferred from one player to another, without delay.

 

In addition, you can collect multiple streams of information simultaneously, i.e. you're in a fight, on death screen you can see that if you take 2 steps left you can grab rockets without actively looking for them, and potentially see where the 2nd enemy is coming from, AND know how long you have till you spawn your partner.

 

I can gather all of that info at the same time; it would take my partner a few seconds to spit all that out. I'm not saying there's no skill in prioritizing callouts and such, I'm saying it's needlessly cumbersome for a game as FAST as Halo 1.

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After going back and reading more on the subject, I can see where you guys are coming from a lot better.  My initial posts on the subject came from reading only the most recent page, in which I read a post about the FOV issue that came across as particularly whiny and ungrateful.  Let me be clear, I'm on board with changing the FOV back to the original.  Who wouldn't be?  My contention came from how the issue was being raised.  When we're asking for this to be fixed, it needs to be tactful.  A lot of people, developers included, could read these requests and have a reaction similar to mine.  Most of them will not read more about the issue with an open mind and allow themselves to be persuaded, as I did.  Most of them will read the first overly-entitled, whiny post on the matter, and close the fucking door, writing you off as ungrateful and impossible to please.  Explain the issue tactfully if you want to win support.

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But I thought all CE players cared about was skill gap.  Not saying one takes more skill in the other, I'm just saying that's all you preach 24/7.  

 

Dude, now you are just looking for an argument. Halo CE has enough skill to make up for the rest of the games in the series. You need to understand that. My problem is that CE is a split screen game, I have always played split screen and it is going to be shitty being forced to play full screen in order to have a decent experience. I know you have seen the screen shots, and can see that they cut our field of view down by a lot. I wouldn't be mad if this was something 343 couldn't fix, but it is. 

 

It's not like the CE guys are complaining and asking for things to be included that weren't included in the original. We aren't mad because they didn't add a audio/visual timer into the game. We all know that the shooting mechanics will be different and we are fine with that. The problem is when there are small things like FOV, weapon times, the way the hud looks, increasing the size of the sniper reticle, and a few other things, that have been changed from the original version, but could be easily fixed by the time the game launches. Hopefully 343 understands this and helps a brother out. 

 

TLDR: Halo CE was perfect already. Don't fuck with the formula, and please give us the closest experience to the original as possible. Not some crappy port of HPC.

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I won't deny that there is a skill and room to improve in player communication, but why force that issue? And like I said before, Halo 1 players still talk. 

 

If we had a 30 degree field of view then you'd REALLY have to communicate, right? The point is, chopping off one hand to make the other work harder is just silly. We should be striving to empower the players to be as fast and as deadly as possible, not conform to some people's entirely subjective opinion on what are the "right" type of skills for Halo.

 

Take 2 imaginary players of equal skill. They will OBJECTIVELY be a more formidable team on 1 screen. The total game knowledge is transferred from one player to another, without delay.

 

In addition, you can collect multiple streams of information simultaneously, i.e. you're in a fight, on death screen you can see that if you take 2 steps left you can grab rockets without actively looking for them, and potentially see where the 2nd enemy is coming from, AND know how long you have till you spawn your partner.

 

 

Of course the issue should not be forced upon CE players. 343 promised CE "just as we remember it", so we should absolutely have the ability to play split screen with good FOV.

 

I'm purely debating which mode of play theoretically increases the skill gap.

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