Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

[Mr Grim]

On 12/23/2020 at 6:08 AM, Cursed Lemon said:

Stop shooting your teammates, griefer

This is America. I will shoot whoever I want.

[Antidope]

This game has modders in MM now? Just played a game with a guy who was moving faster than game speed and in a total non linear motion 

[MrGreenWithAGun]

I just downloaded the game yesterday, playing HCE and H2 for the first time. My install has Easy Cheat Free (or something like that), and as I understand it when you have that you don't get mods in your matches.

The H2 hardcore is knew to me, I am hitting people left and right and not seeing them drop, but I drop on just a couple of their shots. I don't know if they are cheating or not thought.

[Hard Way]

28 minutes ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

I just downloaded the game yesterday, playing HCE and H2 for the first time. My install has Easy Cheat Free (or something like that), and as I understand it when you have that you don't get mods in your matches.

The H2 hardcore is knew to me, I am hitting people left and right and not seeing them drop, but I drop on just a couple of their shots. I don't know if they are cheating or not thought.

You still in Hawaii? Because that would explain it.

[MrGreenWithAGun]

17 hours ago, Hard Way said:

You still in Hawaii? Because that would explain it.

yes i am... I was wondering if that was the case or not. It says I am connecting with a US southern server. Is the PC MCC using dedicated servers? Or is that just a match making server?

I honestly understand when you all say you like the feel of the HCE pistol. It is a rewarding feel to hit the target effectively and they drop quickly before they can take you down. My only complaint is that with the pistol is in the HCE hardcore playlist, it seems that no one uses any other weapons except occasionally the rockets. It honestly feels like the weapons are so unbalanced that everyone gravitates to the killer weapon through out the match.

[Obnokshus]

8 minutes ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

yes i am... I was wondering if that was the case or not. It says I am connecting with a US southern server. Is the PC MCC using dedicated servers? Or is that just a match making server?

I honestly understand when you all say you like the feel of the HCE pistol. It is a rewarding feel to hit the target effectively and they drop quickly before they can take you down. My only complaint is that with the pistol is in the HCE hardcore playlist, it seems that no one uses any other weapons except occasionally the rockets. It honestly feels like the weapons are so unbalanced that everyone gravitates to the killer weapon through out the match.

There are very useful (albeit niche) roles for nearly every weapon in HCE:

 

Pistol: Bread and butter

AR: longest melee range, quick camo on swap

Shotty: best implementation of the series

Rockets: see above

Sniper: Long range pistol

Plasma Pistol: stunlock

Plasma Rifle: stunlock

Needler: dont use this

[Riddler]

1 hour ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

yes i am... I was wondering if that was the case or not. It says I am connecting with a US southern server. Is the PC MCC using dedicated servers? Or is that just a match making server?

I honestly understand when you all say you like the feel of the HCE pistol. It is a rewarding feel to hit the target effectively and they drop quickly before they can take you down. My only complaint is that with the pistol is in the HCE hardcore playlist, it seems that no one uses any other weapons except occasionally the rockets. It honestly feels like the weapons are so unbalanced that everyone gravitates to the killer weapon through out the match.

the sniper is clearly better on mcc. on OG the sniper and pistol are a little weaker, the PR/PP are like 1000000% stronger (read they dont even work on mcc). Shotgun is about the same strength but since pistol is a little weaker, its better. Rockets almost never "no shield" an enemy on OG, it's usually a kill or a miss. But on mcc its almost always a no shield. There is a vod of someone getting 28 shotgun kills on chillout at beachlan.

 

Though map design kinda limits pr/shotty. However, it's not like hardcore in halo2 and beyond have good weapon balance either. every series is br/pistol, snipe, rockets, that it. but ce has all 3 of every map. h2 has 6 gametypes/11 with no snipe, and 10/11 gametypes with no rox. h3 has 4/11 gametypes with no snipe/rox. 

 

[Hard Way]

10 hours ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

yes i am... I was wondering if that was the case or not. It says I am connecting with a US southern server. Is the PC MCC using dedicated servers? Or is that just a match making server?

I honestly understand when you all say you like the feel of the HCE pistol. It is a rewarding feel to hit the target effectively and they drop quickly before they can take you down. My only complaint is that with the pistol is in the HCE hardcore playlist, it seems that no one uses any other weapons except occasionally the rockets. It honestly feels like the weapons are so unbalanced that everyone gravitates to the killer weapon through out the match.

Yikes. I would filter that to US West if I were you. Maybe expand it for ranked if you can't get a game.  But yes both platforms use dedicated servers for matchmaking.

In MCC CE, the PR and PP don't stun like they should and half the shots don't count. The Needler is ass even on OG. And the AR is super inconsistent. So that leaves the pistol, rockets, sniper, and shotgun. All 4 of those weapons are pretty damn good in MCC. You might see the weapon usage change as you rank up. Also, don't sleep on the AR's ability to quick-camo.
 

 

[thdyingbreed]

20 hours ago, Obnokshus said:

Shotty: best implementation of the series

Elaborate.

[Obnokshus]

1 hour ago, thdyingbreed said:

Elaborate.

It is actually useful outside its OHK range in a game where players are consistently low or no shields due to the range it can reach. Halo 2 and 3 had shotguns that were pretty useless unless the player was in OHK/Shot+beatdown range which made both the action unforgiving to play against, or mess up using. Reach had better range than 2/3 but not by much. 

 

The shotgun in halo 4 and 5 has a long OHK range and very little effectiveness outside of that. It makes playing against them very oppressive due to the fact that you get killed halfway across a room with less options to challenge the space the player with the gun occupies. 

 

 

If a shotgun has a small OHK range with no other effective range, it's shitty to use. If a shotgun has a big OHK range with no other effective range, it's shitty to play against. If a shotgun has a good effective range on top of a close OHK range, it allows both the user to be aggressive and allows enemy players in the area to contest with options. 

[Boyo]

39 minutes ago, Obnokshus said:

If a shotgun has a good effective range on top of a close OHK range, it allows both the user to be aggressive and allows enemy players in the area to contest with options. 

This is why I am in favor of a slug rather than simply tightening the spread.  Outside of 1sk range, the shotgun should immediately drop to 3sk minimum.  This allows more medium range 2sk weapons to slide into that niche, allowing players to beat the shotgun if they have a certain weapon and attack from a certain range.  

[Jake Teh Nub]

1 hour ago, thdyingbreed said:

Elaborate.

It's the only one that actually works more than 5 feet away

[Boyo]

Shotgun-Mauler Relationship 

While the Shotgun is king up close, it immediately drops to a three shot kill outside of point blank range, relying solely on its central slug, not the surrounding volley of pellets, to deal damage.  

The Mauler alt-fires explosive Bruteshot rounds that kill in two direct hits.  As long as the user stays out of the Shotgun’s one hit kill range, he can beat the CQC power weapon with the Mauler’s faster kill time (0.45s vs 0.9s).  Travel time/drop over distance demand some skill from the user and limit the effective range of Bruteshot rounds, placing it firmly in the close-medium range niche.  

[MrGreenWithAGun]

On 12/27/2020 at 9:41 PM, Hard Way said:

Yikes. I would filter that to US West if I were you. Maybe expand it for ranked if you can't get a game.  But yes both platforms use dedicated servers for matchmaking.

In MCC CE, the PR and PP don't stun like they should and half the shots don't count. The Needler is ass even on OG. And the AR is super inconsistent. So that leaves the pistol, rockets, sniper, and shotgun. All 4 of those weapons are pretty damn good in MCC. You might see the weapon usage change as you rank up. Also, don't sleep on the AR's ability to quick-camo.
 

 

I watched that video and I plan to focus on using the br as you described.

I find the sniper a lot of fun on hang em high. And I had to think why? It seems that the colors on the map are so pale and the textures so clean that at distance they make the enemy stand out well with absolutely no distractions. I think this is a big reason the HCE sniper is much easier  (for me) and it is truly fun to use at far range (It's my got to weapon now on Hang em high).

I find the magnum very fun, but only in social. Not being a great shot, I am staying away from ranked for now. (My rank team mates were getting pissed at me.)

If I were to rank the various games in ease (given what little I played HCE and H2 thus far), I would say (easiest) HCE, H3, Reach, H4, H2A, H2 (hardest). I am truly enjoying social flag/objective HCE. The animation and graphics/models are clearly of their era, and I am not knocking them for that, but it got me thinking...

What do I "feel" while I play HCE (for the first time) having been involved with H3, R, and H4? I feel like it is an old game. The same can be said of any Halo title, but HCE especially so. 

HCE simply feels old, not because if the animation quality, but by the simplistic/limited avatar mechanics (no sprint, no clamber, no thruster packs, etc.). As I contemplate this, I become even more convinced that there is no market for original Halo (HCE/H2) because they "feel" ancient due to their lack of avatar mechanics. They feel like the era of Half Life Team Fortress from the 90s.

Tell me if I am wrong, but HCE movement seems incredibly slower than H3? I think H3 was the fastest without sprint??

[Aphex Twin]

20 minutes ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

As I contemplate this, I become even more convinced that there is no market for original Halo (HCE/H2) because they "feel" ancient due to their lack of avatar mechanics. They feel like the era of Half Life Team Fortress from the 90s.

Would you say the same for counter strike? 

I think CS would tank if modern movement mechanics (sprint, prone, slide, clamber, etc...) were shoved into it, similar to the nosedive Halo took when those same mechanics were first added.

[Noodle]

This playlist for the new H3 forge maps is some of the most fun I've had playing Halo in recent times. Not every map works best for the specific game modes you get on them, but even the worst in the list is better than a lot of the junk you get when regularly searching H3 and it's great getting loading into a game and not having to see a gametype that I hate playing. One of the rare things that has made me want to queue up again and again in MCC.

[MrGreenWithAGun]

55 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Would you say the same for counter strike? 

I think CS would tank if modern movement mechanics (sprint, prone, slide, clamber, etc...) were shoved into it, similar to the nosedive Halo took when those same mechanics were first added.

You make a good point. No, I cannot  and would not say that about CS.

[MrGreenWithAGun]

I have to say this about MCC for the PC. It doesn't crash on me. It rarely makes me wait more than 60 seconds to get into a new social Flag match. And this is with net limits for West and Central US servers only. I am surprised that there are both ranked and social, and that each are broken across game titles (though ranked appears far more controlled in its offerings). I am impressed with what I see, but I also think it would be interesting to see population counters for each playlist.

I find the PC MCC HCE magnum everything you guys have said it was. It is really fun and rewarding to use. But its dropping power should be limited in range. Whenever I use it at range (even Hang em High cross map) I can't help feeling like I am cheating because the weapon is entirely unbalanced. (I mean, ... it is...)

I honestly do not miss Halo. but I got me a steam gift card for Christmas and a PC with a smoking GPU. So, ya...

[Aphex Twin]

12 hours ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

its dropping power should be limited in range. Whenever I use it at range (even Hang em High cross map) I can't help feeling like I am cheating because the weapon is entirely unbalanced. (I mean, ... it is...)

Disagree, I'd actually argue that the H1 pistol is the most balanced utility weapon (BR, DMR, pistol) from any Halo game since the difference between avg and minimum killtime is the widest. 

Nerfing the guns in subsequent Halo games and removing your ability to consistently hit targets cross map is the main reason why Halo struggles to compete with other top games today. People want to feel powerful and kill opponents fast, which is why games like CoD and CS perform well vs Halo since 2010. 

[Boyo]

5 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Nerfing the guns in subsequent Halo games and removing your ability to consistently hit targets cross map is the main reason why Halo struggles to compete with other top games today. People want to feel powerful and kill opponents fast, which is why games like CoD and CS perform well vs Halo since 2010. 

Angrily holds RT and forward.  

[Obnokshus]

13 hours ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

I find the PC MCC HCE magnum everything you guys have said it was. It is really fun and rewarding to use. But its dropping power should be limited in range. Whenever I use it at range (even Hang em High cross map) I can't help feeling like I am cheating because the weapon is entirely unbalanced. (I mean, ... it is...)

No, it isn't. You have a very aim dependent weapon that every player spawns with and with enough practice can consistently win gunfights that have more to do with your aim and positioning than your shield status. That is not overpowered, that is balanced. 

[MrGreenWithAGun]

3 hours ago, Obnokshus said:

No, it isn't. You have a very aim dependent weapon that every player spawns with and with enough practice can consistently win gunfights that have more to do with your aim and positioning than your shield status. That is not overpowered, that is balanced. 

If you define balanced that way, then I can't argue with you.

I ventured into social 8v8 flag and the game crashed. It said UE4 crashed. So the game was built for the PC using UE4?

[Sitri]

1 hour ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

If you define balanced that way, then I can't argue with you.

I ventured into social 8v8 flag and the game crashed. It said UE4 crashed. So the game was built for the PC using UE4?

Unreal is used for menus. The games run using the original engines.

[Obnokshus]

2 hours ago, MrGreenWithAGun said:

If you define balanced that way, then I can't argue with you.

Let's argue: 

Halo titles that allow the player to actively contest other players regardless of shield status with utility weapons gunplay: 

CE

Halo titles that do not allow the player to actively contest other players due to shield status with utility weapons gunplay:

2, 3, Reach, 4, 5

Halo CE, of all Halo titles, excluding network discrepancies, is the only game where the minimum kill time is significantly different from the average killtime. Every other Halo title has very little separating the minimum from the average. This creates gameplay where player effectiveness is directly tied to shield status.

 

Do you agree that player efficacy should be tied to shield status? Why do you believe the Halo CE pistol to be overpowered?

[MrGreenWithAGun]

5 hours ago, Obnokshus said:

Let's argue: 

Halo titles that allow the player to actively contest other players regardless of shield status with utility weapons gunplay: 

CE

Halo titles that do not allow the player to actively contest other players due to shield status with utility weapons gunplay:

2, 3, Reach, 4, 5

Halo CE, of all Halo titles, excluding network discrepancies, is the only game where the minimum kill time is significantly different from the average killtime. Every other Halo title has very little separating the minimum from the average. This creates gameplay where player effectiveness is directly tied to shield status.

 

Do you agree that player efficacy should be tied to shield status? Why do you believe the Halo CE pistol to be overpowered?

I think player efficacy tied to shield status goes without saying, and that is the key element of Halo (also recently Overwatch and Destiny) that makes it a great game compared to CoD, Far Cry, CS, etc...

I don't know that I said it was overpowered. I said it was unbalanced. If you describe weapon balance as you have, I don't understand your perspective, so I cannot argue the point. To me weapon balance means how it plays in the context of the game. With AR being so useless, magnum high accuracy at range is not a reasonable expectation.  Thus it feels like it is too good given the other weapons that are available.