Jump to content
CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, Sitri said:

Even the people I hit 20 with in Recon Slayer were rejoicing over the fact they didn't have to play the playlist anymore. I doubt the average player is going to want to grind out the 6-10 hours with a full party to hit the required rank in a limited amount of time.

And fair enough tbh. If you play something you don't really want to play to get an unlock, get it, then I feel some rejoicing is worth it. I remember grinding Damascus in MW2019 I had to do a bunch of shit I hated.

Things like playing MW2019.

Glad I stopped playing that game when I realised just how much I didn't like it. I wouldn't touch H4 squad battles if there wasn't a reward. Even now I can only manage a few hours a week.

Share this post


Link to post

Tie unlocks ranked wins instead of a numerical rank, maybe they could give additional XP payout for playing higher-ranked lobbies (because it is harder work afterall). I used to love the H3 system where you had to get a highest skill to get Brig/General, but that was before I realized how broken the H3 ranking system was and how rampant boosting turned out to be.

I'm glad we're moving past the days of Reach/4/5 where playing ranked was literally a detriment to unlocking shit as farming social or stupid shit like SWAT and Grifball gave more XP, but we don't have to go all out with the ranked requirements and make people put in endless hours into ranked playlist with shit settings to get a skin.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Killmachine said:

halo matchmaking is bad enough with low population... i feel like i run into the same people all the time

This too. I was matching the same 3 or 4 groups every game in Recon Slayer.

  

1 hour ago, Basu said:

Tie unlocks ranked wins instead of a numerical rank, maybe they could give additional XP payout for playing higher-ranked lobbies (because it is harder work afterall). I used to love the H3 system where you had to get a highest skill to get Brig/General, but that was before I realized how broken the H3 ranking system was and how rampant boosting turned out to be.

I'm glad we're moving past the days of Reach/4/5 where playing ranked was literally a detriment to unlocking shit as farming social or stupid shit like SWAT and Grifball gave more XP, but we don't have to go all out with the ranked requirements and make people put in endless hours into ranked playlist with shit settings to get a skin.

XP in MCC is literally worthless past a certain level because you stop getting unlock points. All it does is change the icon next to your name.

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Many users don't want to play ranked. I think I can safely say that most users on this forum are above average. Reaching ranked 10, 15 and 25 doesn't seem an insurmountable hurdle to us because most of us play a lot and are good at it. I've managed to grind up to rank 10 in Halo 4 squad battles just solo searching and even though solo searching 6v6 is a struggle because it's harder to carry dead weight compared to 4v4, (even at 180ms ping) 25 still doesn't seem too big a mountain to climb. You and I played a few rounds and I'd say we were reasonably even in terms of skill so I understand your mentality that you just need to put some time in and you'll get it.

We can't model any progression system after things that players exclusively want to do. Player incentive becomes completely neutered as a tool to raise population retention. 

People have a variety of distastes, for example. Here it's a competitive rank, but it can also extend to everything else: social slayer, BTB, grifball, PvE, Firefight, non-MLG H3, everything. 

It's impossible to make an experience that everyone will like. 

You want a large community of inter-mingling players, not a bunch of insular niche communities that don't play anything else. 

10 hours ago, Shekkles said:

However, by definition, most players are average. To the average player, 25 does seem too big a mountain to climb. I have a friend who LOVES Orange/white/black as a colour combo (me too actually, I have the Titanfall 2 Xbox controller for this exact reason) and there is just no way he is going to hit 25 on Squad battles to get the Orange/white/black skin. It's just never going to happen. He's an average player, but it's not just that: he is not interested in playing ranked. So whilst he can get all the other skins by playing the way he wants, he is a little annoyed that he can't get the skin in his favorite colours because it's locked behind something he doesn't want to do.

Good. If he wants the skin, he should learn to play and build a cadence for SB. This is how you temper a population that will make the most of your game: you force them to try new types of play if they want prestige or rewards. See 5-Star Brigadier General. 

I didn't even unlock the Avalanche skin, I stopped playing for a while before the playlist expired. Recon Slayer was the most scuffed playlist in the entire selection, and my experience with it was less than fun. However, I still found the overall experience fruitful, and am more than willing to grind when it comes back. 

You can't build that satisfaction when half the season points can be earned by farming Gruntpocalypse firefight. 

Even if we ignore all this, there's literally no reason that all players should be able to earn every single cosmetic with incredible ease. 

10 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Now, personally, I don't see that as soft. He's a casual player. He doesn't want to play Halo every day. He just wants his favourite colour combo on his gun when he does play and was a little irked when he saw it wasn't going to happen. He's not the kind of person to go on reddit and bandwagon moan about it though. His entire complaint consisted of "Oh that sucks" and never mentioning it again. That's not soft to me. That's just reality.

There's nothing wrong with that. That doesn't mean anything about the 1500+ people who think that every single skin in the game should be unlockable by playing campaign on normal. 

10 hours ago, Shekkles said:

I don't see it as fair to judge everyone who can't be bothered unlocking those skins as harshly as you did is all. I doubt 343 will change it. There are plenty of skins and unlocks for average players and I find it unlikely they'll drop the 2 unlocks available to ranked players to cater to them.

Giving the devs the benefit of the doubt is asking for disappointment. 

The only things I've played in the last 2 months in the context of MCC, are Recon Slayer, Precision FFA, and Squad Battle. I have literally zero incentive to touch the game with a barge pole, without those skins. 

If Postums twitter is any indication, they likely won't. I definitely wouldn't put it past them, though. 

Besides, no one is calling average players who can't be bothered, "soft". He's calling the people who'd rather kill whatever life the ranked playlists have and make everything unlockable by teabagging for 12 minutes in social slayer whilst complaining on Waypoint/Reddit, soft. 

Even if the average player can't earn these, is it bad to have skins that are just flexes for better skilled players? 

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I think having some reward for reaching high ranks is completely fair, the issue is MCC has a shit population and 343 can't make a ranking system to save their lives

  • Like (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Basu said:

Tie unlocks ranked wins instead of a numerical rank, maybe they could give additional XP payout for playing higher-ranked lobbies (because it is harder work afterall). I used to love the H3 system where you had to get a highest skill to get Brig/General, but that was before I realized how broken the H3 ranking system was and how rampant boosting turned out to be.

I'm glad we're moving past the days of Reach/4/5 where playing ranked was literally a detriment to unlocking shit as farming social or stupid shit like SWAT and Grifball gave more XP, but we don't have to go all out with the ranked requirements and make people put in endless hours into ranked playlist with shit settings to get a skin.

Remember halo 3 had online achievements that required you to play ranked in order to get them? And that was how you got certain armor pieces.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

that splaser ffa one, man, I still remember shouting when the opportunity finally presented itself. perhaps the only time I enjoyed snowbound

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

 

20 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Now, personally, I don't see that as soft. He's a casual player. He doesn't want to play Halo every day. He just wants his favourite colour combo on his gun when he does play and was a little irked when he saw it wasn't going to happen. He's not the kind of person to go on reddit and bandwagon moan about it though. His entire complaint consisted of "Oh that sucks" and never mentioning it again. That's not soft to me. That's just reality.

I don't see it as fair to judge everyone who can't be bothered unlocking those skins as harshly as you did is all. I doubt 343 will change it. There are plenty of skins and unlocks for average players and I find it unlikely they'll drop the 2 unlocks available to ranked players to cater to them.

That's a reasonable sentiment. I think the key there, is that he's not going on reddit and whining about not being able to get it. It's unfortunate that skin happened to fall behind that unlock criteria. That sucks for him, honestly. But it sounds like he handled it like well adjusted person.

I think you're misunderstanding me. My soft comment was in regards to my first sentence, about the blowback 343 is getting for having the gall to reward people for hitting a modest milestone in ranked (a slice of their game that desperately needs incentive drawn to it). It was not about the second sentence. I understand that there's a fat chunk of the population that doesn't want to push for that. But typically, the people that would really care about a Halo skin wouldn't mind putting the time and effort into developing enough skill to hit rank 20. If they lack the drive to do that, they probably don't care that terribly much about the skin, like your friend.

My locals are the exact same way. We tried Squad Battle the other night. I had already hit rank 15 after putting in a few sessions (I genuinely enjoy the playlist). They finally got on to try it. They all dig H4, bc they have good memories of pubstomping it together against awful kids back in 2013. But they're all average as fuck and rarely play against a full team of competent players. So we play, as a party of 5, and I'm a 15. We're pulling in teams that know what they're doing. They're getting shit on. It took like 3 games for them to be like "nah dawg, we're all set on this Squad Battle shit." I don't think any of these guys are soft irl. They're all pretty successful people. But they're also probably not gonna go cry online about not getting the skin they feel entitled to.

The part that bothers me is that people feel entitled to everything. When something comes along that's just out of reach, and asks them to actually develop their skills a little bit and try, they throw this huge temper tantrum. No. You either suck it up and put in the effort, or you be content with not being good enough to have it. Crying that it's too hard is soft. I stand by that.

Their only argument that I sympathize with is the limited time nature of the challenge, and the shit-tier messaging and communication to let their playerbase know when/how to get it. That part, I get. But asking someone to get a fucking 20, and stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum over it? It's laughable, especially given the history of this franchise.

  • Like (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, OG Nick said:

I think having some reward for reaching high ranks is completely fair, the issue is MCC has a shit population and 343 can't make a ranking system to save their lives

Right, but it becomes a self defeating cycle if you say "We can't put in this ranked incentive, because no one plays ranked." I mean, that's the point of the incentive...to get people to play it.  That's why they're setting them low (15, 20, 25). 25 might be pushing it tbh, especially in a playlist that needs 12 people for a game. But I think the idea is pretty good. Also, in my experience being in the eastern U.S. time zone, I've not had a single instance in either of these ranked playlists where I've thought, "Gee, this sure is a long que time."

There's an argument to be made where maybe it should just be "X amount of wins in ranked". For a while, I thought that might be the better play. It's more accessible, but still requires effort. And I still think that'd make for an excellent challenge. But it should exist alongside the style that we have now. I think offering some prestige items for accomplishing something not everyone can do is a good idea for MCC, or competitive games in general. Everyone understood this concept in Halo 3. I don't know how so many have forgotten it.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

hard way is right but if your game never starts strong, there will never be enough people to play

mcc was broken when it launched and had no ranked playlists besides h2a for months, so the population never recovered, and then with pc the games were staggered and also released broken (h2 sticks out, and h3's hit reg didnt get fixed til september or so), so the population also basically got screwed

attaching incentives to ranked now feels too little too late and more so hard bc the low population skews rankings too much where level 15 = a level 45 player for example

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

How much is the current system skewed relative to OG H3? 

ATM, sky-high skill level H3 TS players (Cranium, Avoideds, Transfered, Deciting, etc) are somewhere in the mid-30s for H3 TS. 

Share this post


Link to post
36 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

How much is the current system skewed relative to OG H3? 

ATM, sky-high skill level H3 TS players (Cranium, Avoideds, Transfered, Deciting, etc) are somewhere in the mid-30s for H3 TS. 

I am a 23 in both TS and Recon Slayer. For reference, 20+ in TS(I stopped playing months ago due to playlist map pool) would usually result in the losing team successfully getting 30+ kills most of the time. 

 

Not a single session of Recon Slayer felt like ranked. The first round was the same as the last. Too many blowouts, not enough knowledgable players. 

Share this post


Link to post

I'm still mad about the battle pass being a thing at all, as opposed to just letting players unlock them in a similar manner as the original. Like them being rewards for campaign completion, or multiplayer ranks.

Share this post


Link to post

I've always found it interesting that people care about what color their guns are or what the armor on the character that they cannot see looks like.

 

I'm not knocking anyone for enjoying that aspect of a game, but it's never been something I have cared about.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Rick said:

I've always found it interesting that people care about what color their guns are or what the armor on the character that they cannot see looks like.

a) You can see you gun, so unlocking cosmetics for it servers an in-game aesthetical function.
b) Merit-based gun skins allow you to visually be rewarded progress and show that in game.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Crimson said:

"Why can't I get Hayabusa armor from spamming social slayer?"

Good thing that unlock was broken...

The achievements to unlock Hayabusa or Recon didn't go away after a month.

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/24/2020 at 4:45 PM, Boyo said:

What about a pick up that enhances melee independent of the equipped weapon?  

Doesn't evoke much in me, why would you like it? I think it would just lead to players doing what they usually do with the utility weapon, but helped by a stat boost. I like enhanced melee when it's linked to a more niche weapon, like the Brute Shot, because you have to play differently.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Rick said:

I've always found it interesting that people care about what color their guns are or what the armor on the character that they cannot see looks like.

It's a nice feature to keep players engaged inbetween games. If it isn't engaging, like with the MW operators, I just ignore it too. Sadly most systems aren't very engaging since most are made to make money or retain players through unlock grinds (understandable, but still a shame), and don't focus on letting players express themselves.

I've turned off the off in game skins in Halo 3 though, because I once jumped down to what I thought might be a fuel rod gun, but turned out to be an orange AR. Would like a setting that makes skins client side, first person only.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm far more flexible on the timed aspect of the rewards, but how would a non-timed version of the skins work with the existing rotational playlist system? 

I'd rather they just bring the playlist back at a later date and let people get the skin then. 

On a less argumentative note: Brainstorm some playlists that you'd like to see in ranked play. 

 

In order of most-least preferable: 

• Cross-game FFA playlist. Preferably MLG/AGL settings, if social settings are used then without Reach. 

• H2 2v2. 

• CE 4v4. 

• Cross-game BTB. 

• Team Snipers / Snipers FFA. 

• 1v1. 

• Recon FFA. 

 

BTB / Squad Battle should be handled the way Invasion was handled, strict party matching but with open skill matching. I don't know if those playlists would be able to find games quickly enough otherwise. 

Share this post


Link to post
51 minutes ago, potetr said:

I've turned off the off in game skins in Halo 3 though, because I once jumped down to what I thought might be a fuel rod gun, but turned out to be an orange AR. Would like a setting that makes skins client side, first person only.

I’m surprised more people aren’t talking about this in regard to skins.  Halo is a pick-up based game.  Players need to be able to visually identify pick-ups.  For the same reason Halo shouldn’t have both a BR and a DMR, so that players won’t be confused by two similar looking human rifles on the ground, Halo shouldn’t have weapon skins, because each weapon should be unique looking and easy to spot.  
 

Certain Halo weapons are iconic specifically because they never had weapon skins.  

  • Like (+1) 3
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Boyo said:

I’m surprised more people aren’t talking about this in regard to skins.  Halo is a pick-up based game.  Players need to be able to visually identify pick-ups.  For the same reason Halo shouldn’t have both a BR and a DMR, so that players won’t be confused by two similar looking human rifles on the ground, Halo shouldn’t have weapon skins, because each weapon should be unique looking and easy to spot.  
 

Certain Halo weapons are iconic specifically because they never had weapon skins.  

The key is to give up on caring about Halo in any way because it will never be good again :))

  • Simms (+1) 1
  • Fire (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.