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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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3 hours ago, Sitri said:

I thought ODST was good, even if a bit repetitive because 90% of the game was spent in the same sort of urban environment. The lack of a BR really helped out combat, the pistol and carbine had clear tradeoffs. There were far more Hunters than all of Halo 3, and Drones had an expansion to their ranks so keeping an auto in your pocket was sometimes a good idea. It helps that the SMG wasn't absolutely garbage.
AI was basically Halo 3's, but enemies would be on patrol during the hub world missions. And you had more health than the Chief so Jackal snipers couldn't one-hit you from full.

Stealthing in odst is also possible. I've both avoided a whole brute patrol and taken one out without alerting anyone. It's hard but feels really satisfying.

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6 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Stealthing in odst is also possible. I've both avoided a whole brute patrol and taken one out without alerting anyone. It's hard but feels really satisfying.

I took the Hitman route and put on a Grunt’s rebreather to blend in with the crowd.  

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

I took the Hitman route and put on a Grunt’s rebreather to blend in with the crowd.  

You're only cool if you have a beaked hood. For extra stealth

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On 10/8/2020 at 1:09 PM, Sitri said:

Although I'd be more open to forcing weapon combos if swap speeds were significantly faster- aside from the noob combo there's no reason to really switch between weapons mid-fight because it's oftentimes faster to just continue shooting with your headshot gun or go in for a melee.

Yeah, weapon switch animations are dumb. The average speed of a (relatively quick) weapon draw in Halo has traditionally been about 0.4-0.35 seconds. It's ridiculously long, and it's why swapping weapons mid-fight is a suicidal tactic. 

As I see it, there's 3 ways to make weapon combos more central to gameplay in PvE. 

1) Evening out the ratio between health and shields, so that taking away health with a poor health-stripper is just as ineffective as taking away shields with poor shield-strippers. 

2) Reducing weapon swap animation times to 0.15-0.2 seconds, for most weapons. 

3) Clearly distinguishing weapon effectiveness against shields and health. For example, an Assault Rifle should be 4x as effective against enemy health than enemy shields, while a Plasma Rifle should be 2x as effective against shields than against health. (Don't necessarily accomplish this entirely through shield VS health damage output, factors like projectile speed and spread can also be manipulated to produce a desired output). 

On top of this, there's a variety of other specific methods that can be utilized. Stun, situationally faster swap times, shared ammo, alt-fires, etc. 

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6 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Stealthing in odst is also possible. I've both avoided a whole brute patrol and taken one out without alerting anyone. It's hard but feels really satisfying.

Stealth, darkness, and playing strategically to confuse and/or mislead enemy AI is a pretty underrated part of Halo PvE gameplay. 

Imagine,

A forest mission (think "Delta Halo" meets "343 Guilty Spark" meets "The Silent Cartographer") where the player has the opportunity to complete several otherwise challenging encounters without alerting enemies, by moving stealthily and cautiously. The geometry features lots of brush, terrain altitude variation, and tall grass. The player can exploit all of these, provided that the player is cautious and thoughtful enough to know what maneuvers to make and how to make them. 

A snowy mission where the player can pick up snow-camo equipment, to make themselves less easily perceptible to enemies in the midst of a blizzard. Only jackals and specific enemies wearing thermal vision helmets can spot the player, if he doesn't make himself stealthy. 

A mission taking place on a Covenant ship. The layout of the map is very non-linear and interconnected, with small groups of minor enemies that periodically patrol through the networks and intersections of corridors. If the player does not play stealthily and alerts the enemies via sound, presence or dead body, then higher rank enemies will start to spawn in and attempt to "pinch" the player in the corridors.

You could also create many weapons or specialize existing weapons with stealth functionality, by treating it like a gameplay mechanic proper.  

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32 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Yeah, weapon switch animations are dumb. The average speed of a (relatively quick) weapon draw in Halo has traditionally been about 0.4-0.35 seconds. It's ridiculously long, and it's why swapping weapons mid-fight is a suicidal tactic. 

As I see it, there's 3 ways to make weapon combos more central to gameplay in PvP. 

1) Evening out the ratio between health and shields, so that taking away health with a poor health-stripper is just as ineffective as taking away shields with poor shield-strippers. 

2) Reducing weapon swap animation times to 0.15-0.2 seconds, for most weapons. 

3) Clearly distinguishing weapon effectiveness against shields and health. For example, an Assault Rifle should be 4x as effective against enemy health than enemy shields, while a Plasma Rifle should be 2x as effective against shields than against health. (Don't necessarily accomplish this entirely through shield VS health damage output, factors like projectile speed and spread can also be manipulated to produce a desired output). 

On top of this, there's a variety of other specific methods that can be utilized. Stun, situationally faster swap times, shared ammo, alt-fires, etc. 

Halo's swap speeds are just completely backwards. The animations are all frontloaded for when you draw the weapon, but it takes no time at all to switch away as soon as you fire. It should just be like Quake where drawing a weapon is near instant, but you can't switch away until the weapon is ready to fire again. At least for non-headshot weapons; if headshot weapons are too fast, there would never be a reason to use a weapon that deals health damage.

And sadly, as far as I can tell animation speeds can't be increased through modding.

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35 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Evening out the ratio between health and shields

Or an additional vitality layer could be introduced.  “Armor” is effectively extra health.  
 

16 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

the player has the opportunity to complete several otherwise challenging encounters without alerting enemies, by moving stealthily and cautiously. The geometry features lots of brush, terrain altitude variation, and tall grass.

If enemies find out you are in the tall grass, what do they do?  Can they burn it down to flush you out?  
 

18 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

You could also create many weapons or specialize existing weapons with stealth functionality, by treating it like a gameplay mechanic proper.  

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It's sad because all they need to do to incentivize ranked play is quadruple the XP cap for it. Add some nameplates, tie season point gain to ranked, and there. You've already boosted incentive to play it. 

Even making some social playlists ranked-only would increase incentive to play. Snipers and Doubles (even FFA maybe?) shouldn't be social (Doubles shouldn't because the type of people who actually play it in social really should be playing it in ranked instead). 

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Permanent increased XP in ranked (with insignia in the menus to reflect that)

Rotational niche ranked lists.

This isn’t even hard.

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Even though I dislike Halo 3's gameplay, the game had some incredible population in ranked playlists. Even people who didn't care about attending tournaments or becoming content creators, flocked to the ranked playlists - merely because of how rewarding the progression system was. 

I don't 100% agree with people like Tommy Kost on "Supplementary systems almost being more important than actual gameplay", but they're undoubtedly right that it's also hugely important. 

If you can make a reasonably competitive game with a good progression system and a high amount of playlist variety, your game's golden. 

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21 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Even though I dislike Halo 3's gameplay, the game had some incredible population in ranked playlists. Even people who didn't care about attending tournaments or becoming content creators, flocked to the ranked playlists - merely because of how rewarding the progression system was. 

I don't 100% agree with people like Tommy Kost on "Supplementary systems almost being more important than actual gameplay", but they're undoubtedly right that it's also hugely important. 

If you can make a reasonably competitive game with a good progression system and a high amount of playlist variety, your game's golden. 

This is what I’m hoping infinite has. Please add incentives to ranked mm give people a reason to play. And if there’s people who are upset that ranked is getting double xp or something like that then tough wait for the weekend. Most challenges like kills, wins etc should be ranked only. 

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On 10/6/2020 at 1:26 AM, Shekkles said:

- Accuracy increases with each shot, rather than decreases. Essentially reverse bloom to reward accuracy even when spamming.

 

On 10/7/2020 at 6:25 PM, Hootspa said:

That sounds like literally the most frustrating thing ever for new players unless you tie it to how fast the player is shooting, in which case you just reinvented @TiberiusAudleys inverse bullet spread concept xD

You guys rang?

On 10/7/2020 at 7:13 PM, _Synapse said:

Changing bullet magnetism over several shots is a bad idea. It'll feel a lot like anti-aim on CE. 

The idea of a weapon where accuracy increases as the player fires more, is something that could potentially work with the Needler, though that weapon has better ways to fit it's niche. 

Curious to hear, @_Synapse, what your reasoning behind saying the bullet magnetism by shot changing is a bad idea -- if it's communicated clearly through HUD showing the reticule shrinking, and still requires the same % of the reticule to cover the target to count as a hit -- then it shouldn't be a tremendous struggle for players to learn how it works and how to use it.

If you're doing that aiming-beside-their-shoulder-and-relying-on-the-game-to-count-it-as-a-headshot shit that you can pull off in H4/H2A/H5, then as the reticule shrinks toward the center of where you are aiming, you'll start to miss unless you're firing at intended cadence.  This is a system that rewards skilled players for aiming better, but also boosts the ability for weaker players to still enjoy the game and get kills, because by playing "as designed" / firing slower, they can rely on the game to help them land shots.  It also adds balancing levers for different precision weapons to allow their niches to be even more defined.

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@TiberiusAudley Assistance mechanics like bullet magnetism should not be intentionally brought to the forefront of the player’s mind.  Players shouldn’t know they are having their hand held.  You want them to feel like the things happening on screen are occurring solely due to their input.  A weapon designed around variable bullet magnetism does one of two things, exposes the game’s behind the curtain magic or frustrates them because they can’t figure out why their weapon feels so inconsistent.  

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I'd say one of the most frustrating mechanics in any FPS is that some games have your look sensitivity change based on what weapon you have equipped.

I'd also say that inconsistent bullet magnetism and aim assist are quite frustrating. Different RRR ranges are fine but when the assistance kicks in it should always feel the same imo. Most Halo games have kept changes like that very minimal and somewhat hidden due to the nature of the sandbox but the more its played with the more obvious it is which leads to an inconsistent feeling when you're actually playing. There are situations where it makes sense such as with a sniper rifle in Halo but when you take that path for every single gun, even the redundant ones, it gets really weird because you're using different feeling tools to the exact same purpose. When a pistol, DMR, BR, LR and Carbine all have different values and you're expected to be using most of those all of the time and mostly interchangeably you start to notice. Its not as apparent when the difference is between you trying to snipe, br, plasma rile someone or shoot a rocket because you're using those tools differently on a basic level to begin with. I think that's a pretty easy criticism to give to Halo 5 specifically because they tried their best to remake the same weapon over and over and then changed the values on magnetism, RRR and general assistance on them enough for it to be noticeable intentionally on top of their already bad aiming code and it ended with probably the most awkward feeling FPS I've ever played

That last bit there is probably the biggest reason anyone would say that Halo 5 doesn't feel like a Halo game even if they don't realize why they're getting that impression 

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4 hours ago, TiberiusAudley said:

You guys rang?

I knew it wasn't an original idea, just couldn't remember who first mentioned it. On a competitive level it's good but on a casual level it wouldn't work.

 

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39 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

I knew it wasn't an original idea, just couldn't remember who first mentioned it. On a competitive level it's good but on a casual level it wouldn't work.

 

Not sure what about it wouldn't work on a casual level. How is it worse in any regard compared to normal bloom which works fine casually?

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1 hour ago, Hootspa said:

Not sure what about it wouldn't work on a casual level. How is it worse in any regard compared to normal bloom which works fine casually?

Sorry, I used the wrong term. I should have said it probably wouldn't work on a tourist level.

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1 hour ago, Shekkles said:

Sorry, I used the wrong term. I should have said it probably wouldn't work on a tourist level.

I really think something like that comes down to implementation.  Definitely not something where you can have any seams or rough edges.  Has to be polished as it possibly can be, to the point that you're not even noticing the work the game is doing.

 

But again, with the visual reticule shrinking (explained in-universe as onboard computing in your MJOLNIR armor assisting your aim less as it struggles to keep up), then as long as the reticule stickiness doesn't change much if at all, there isn't much issue a "tourist" is going to notice.

The controls should not be invasively impacted by a system such as this.  The important thing is the system being communicated to the player on a way they can learn it intuitively and adjust accordingly as they become better or more familiar with the game.

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1 hour ago, TiberiusAudley said:

 Has to be polished as it possibly can be, to the point that you're not even noticing the work the game is doing.

Well that's 343 out.

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Tried playing MCC Saturday night, specifically ranked for the first time since CE was released on PC.

I couldn't find a ranked match in anything besides Reach. I gave each playlist about 3 minutes of searching before trying the next one. What a bummer.

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2 hours ago, JordanB said:

Tried playing MCC Saturday night, specifically ranked for the first time since CE was released on PC.

I couldn't find a ranked match in anything besides Reach. I gave each playlist about 3 minutes of searching before trying the next one. What a bummer.

I had a similar experience about a month ago.  Cept instead of Reach it was H3.  I been keeping busy with Borderlands 3 and Genshin Impact. Genshin Impact is so fun.  Anyone else playing Breath of the Waifu?  

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5 hours ago, JordanB said:

Tried playing MCC Saturday night, specifically ranked for the first time since CE was released on PC.

I couldn't find a ranked match in anything besides Reach. I gave each playlist about 3 minutes of searching before trying the next one. What a bummer.

Its harder to find a match when you don't have a rank. 

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17 hours ago, Shekkles said:

This is wicked

That honestly is some awesome scenery. I wish the level assets would have been used in the campaign somewhere.

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