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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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2 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

The first one would be better and I think 18M would be better. If you only appear when firing then I don’t think that’s a nuisance. 

The radar in H3 is 25 meters in social and it's a pain in the ass, so 18's still way too high. 10's the maximum I'm willing to allow, and even that fucks with player flow on close quarters maps. 

Fully on board with the "only visible on radar when firing" idea though. 

 

@Boyo do you think there'd be backlash from casual players? I don't think there's contention from anybody on this forum that radars kill flanking ability and map flow, but it's something that's been in the games since 2004. 

It's something that the H3-H2 guys bring up that has some merit, the fact that radar settings have always held higher populations than non-radar. This could definitely be due to the idiotic "MLG Hardcore Pro Streamer Claw Sweatdrinker playlist, casul GTFO" naming scheme that's been in use though. 

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34 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

The radar in H3 is 25 meters in social and it's a pain in the ass, so 18's still way too high. 10's the maximum I'm willing to allow, and even that fucks with player flow on close quarters maps. 

Fully on board with the "only visible on radar when firing" idea though. 

 

@Boyo do you think there'd be backlash from casual players? I don't think there's contention from anybody on this forum that radars kill flanking ability and map flow, but it's something that's been in the games since 2004. 

It's something that the H3-H2 guys bring up that has some merit, the fact that radar settings have always held higher populations than non-radar. This could definitely be due to the idiotic "MLG Hardcore Pro Streamer Claw Sweatdrinker playlist, casul GTFO" naming scheme that's been in use though. 

I don't think it's that complicated: radar objectively makes the game easier to play. I truly don't think taking radar out of the game for competitive settings will have any appreciable impact on how the broader Halo community views competition settings. If you're tweaking it to maintain setting consistency across social and competitive settings, you're putting too much effort into it. Just remove it from competitive settings entirely—there's no point in compromising on this.

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7 hours ago, _Synapse said:

@Boyo do you think there'd be backlash from casual players? I don't think there's contention from anybody on this forum that radars kill flanking ability and map flow, but it's something that's been in the games since 2004. 

It's something that the H3-H2 guys bring up that has some merit, the fact that radar settings have always held higher populations than non-radar. This could definitely be due to the idiotic "MLG Hardcore Pro Streamer Claw Sweatdrinker playlist, casul GTFO" naming scheme that's been in use though. 

Radar can’t be removed entirely from Halo but it can be reclassified somewhat.  
 

Simultaneously shrinking the infantry detection range while expanding the vehicle detection range changes Radar from a corner-camping tool to a point-of-interest indicator, which vehicles are.  

Any enemy vehicles on the map are represented by an icon riding around the inner edge of the Radar’s outer ring, continuously informing the user what directions the enemy vehicles are in.  

This shift in functionality represents the greater, game-wide shift of incorporating vehicles into most gamemodes outside of Arena.  Arena is barebones, no vehicles, no abilities.  As a gametype’s player count goes up, more vehicles and more abilities are incorporated.  
 

Arena - no vehicles, no abilities, no radar 

Other gamemodes - vehicles and vehicle-radar, abilities and ability-radar 

 

One game mode will always be looked at as the sweaty, try hard mode; may as well make the most of it.  Arena has no radar, no vehicles, and no AAs/equipment off spawn (and generally not as pick ups either).  

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On 9/7/2020 at 12:29 PM, infraction said:

Wasn't CE also designed not with competitive play in mind? I remember reading that bungie was just making the multiplayer as a mode to fuck around with friends with. The fact that it turned out as well as it did also seemed to be more luck than anything to me.

Yes sorta. The goal was a party fps, but since console shooters were so new and the deadline so short, the devs didn't fuck around too hard and just stuck with what work. It drew inspiration from quake because the Dev liked quake. In halo 2 going forward, bungie purposely tried to lower the skill gap so that everyone can have fun. They literally tried to solve a problem that didn't exist. 

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On 9/8/2020 at 8:18 AM, Boyo said:

The way you get rid of radar is to associate it with vehicles.  Arena doesn’t have vehicles so it doesn’t have radar.  Squad and Invasion have vehicles so they also have radar.  

Or make ranked the dividing line.

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5 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Or make ranked the dividing line.

Don’t you want ranked FFA and Radar in FFA?  
 

When vehicles are used as the dividing line, FFA, 2v2, and 4v4 could all be Radar free.  I know some people like radar in rumble pit but I wouldn’t have a problem seeing it go.  

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Radar can stay or go in FFA, depending on the FFA map design and the game's overall audio design. 

Modified audio settings for FFA and Arena are an idea that I like quite a bit. Arena has virtually zero sound so that your position isn't given away by a mechanic that you can't avoid, whereas FFA has positional sound to clue players in to where their opponents are without quashing the ability for CQC outplays. 

Map design in FFA should ideally have circular player flow and a relatively simple layout. This minimizes the need for team communication and places emphasis on the need to move and shoot, or die. 

Of course, power items and soft power positions have a bad "coagulating" habit in regards to map flow. For example, the Pit is an extremely mediocre map for FFA because it has two sniper rifles placed besides two points on the map with clear sightlines on essentially 80% of the map's surface area. The strat for the map is basically "Get sword, get snipe, whore both at S2, profit". 

A map designed like Penrose stairs, where each room is directly vulnerable to an adjacent room, fuels constant movement. In addition, power ups that see very limited use in Arena (1-layer OS, damage boost, etc) are placed on the cardinal axes of the map such that there is further incentive to keep moving. 

Power weapons in FFA are restricted to difficult use weapons like Sniper Rifles, because shotguns and swords in FFA are a terrible fucking idea that give their users a disproportionately huge advantage in both, the direction where they have an advantage, and the direction from where they're at a disadvantage. 

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I don’t like zero audio steps for arena. I like knowing if someone is around me because that’s realistic, physics, etc. however I think the sound should be toned down from how it was in h5. Radar is free info footsteps aren’t because unless there’s no sounds around me you ain’t sneaking up on me or shouldn’t be able too. 

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4 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

because that’s realistic

????

There's zero benefits to keeping even a toned-down sound. If you can play without radar, you should be fine without sound. 

Why shouldn't I able to sneak up on someone without the game telling them for free? Isn't it their job to check that they're not about to get flanked by keeping an eye on their routes, rather than knowing for free because I can't move without a stupid crunching noise alerting them? 

I like radar because I'm a god at whoring it better than other players. I'm still not gonna advocate for it to not be removed, because I acknowledge that it kills any potential for cool flanks. 

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3 hours ago, _Synapse said:

????

There's zero benefits to keeping even a toned-down sound. If you can play without radar, you should be fine without sound. 

Why shouldn't I able to sneak up on someone without the game telling them for free? Isn't it their job to check that they're not about to get flanked by keeping an eye on their routes, rather than knowing for free because I can't move without a stupid crunching noise alerting them? 

I like radar because I'm a god at whoring it better than other players. I'm still not gonna advocate for it to not be removed, because I acknowledge that it kills any potential for cool flanks. 

Well because foot steps are something you can hear with your news flash,  EARS. Radar you can be crouching and know he’s there, it’s cheap prevents flanking completely. But if you’re shooting you won’t hear them flanking, you might even mistake those steps for your teammate. Footstep sounds don’t prevent flanking.  It’s not the game telling them for free, unless sound is somehow free info. At That point you shouldn’t be allowed to hear gun shots or fucking anything! I play plenty of BRS and other games and pull off flanks all the time and they have loud footstep sounds too. 

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Im fine with FOOTSTEPS in close proximity, say 3-5 meters. Not obnoxiously loud.  Totally silent when moving slowly, either crouching or 50% stick deflection.  Not the crunching, stepping, clinking, squeaking you can hear in Halo 5 from halfway across the map.  That shit is obnoxious.  Sounds like a 5 year old's attempt at EDM.

 

I'm also fine with them being totally gone.

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13 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Well because foot steps are something you can hear with your news flash,  EARS. 

Radar's something I can see with my, news flash, EYES. Radar doesn't stop flanks either, right? 

13 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Radar you can be crouching and know he’s there, it’s cheap prevents flanking completely. 

Were you half-asleep when you typed this? I need an FBI cryptologist to understand whatever you typed. 

13 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

But if you’re shooting you won’t hear them flanking, you might even mistake those steps for your teammate. Footstep sounds don’t prevent flanking.  It’s not the game telling them for free, unless sound is somehow free info. 

You're supposed to tell me how sounds don't affect the ability to flank, not tell me how sounds may not situationally give away my flank to an enemy who isn't paying attention to his audio. 

There's a difference between "X has no bearing on Y" and "X will occasionally not have a bearing on Y". 

How is sound NOT free info, for something as necessary as walking? 

13 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

At That point you shouldn’t be allowed to hear gun shots or fucking anything! I play plenty of BRS and other games and pull off flanks all the time and they have loud footstep sounds too. 

You don't fire gun shots while trying to sneak around someone, are you thinking before replying? 

Let's say on Pit, my opponents are positioned at their sword ramp (looking opposite training), their bridge, their second, and their long. I decide to be sneaky and go across runway to punish them for not paying attention to their routes. 

In a game with sounds, the guy on their sword ramp will hear me no matter what I do, and my maneuver amounts to little more than a free kill for the enemy team. 

In a game without sounds, I can cross and potentially kill the guy at sword ramp, giving my team enough of an advantage to try to push them off their half of the map. 

I'm not going to be firing gunshots while attempting said flank, or any flank for that matter. 

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12 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Radar's something I can see with my, news flash, EYES. Radar doesn't stop flanks either, right? 

Were you half-asleep when you typed this? I need an FBI cryptologist to understand whatever you typed. 

You're supposed to tell me how sounds don't affect the ability to flank, not tell me how sounds may not situationally give away my flank to an enemy who isn't paying attention to his audio. 

There's a difference between "X has no bearing on Y" and "X will occasionally not have a bearing on Y". 

How is sound NOT free info, for something as necessary as walking? 

You don't fire gun shots while trying to sneak around someone, are you thinking before replying? 

Let's say on Pit, my opponents are positioned at their sword ramp (looking opposite training), their bridge, their second, and their long. I decide to be sneaky and go across runway to punish them for not paying attention to their routes. 

In a game with sounds, the guy on their sword ramp will hear me no matter what I do, and my maneuver amounts to little more than a free kill for the enemy team. 

In a game without sounds, I can cross and potentially kill the guy at sword ramp, giving my team enough of an advantage to try to push them off their half of the map. 

I'm not going to be firing gunshots while attempting said flank, or any flank for that matter. 

Ok I’m just gonna be honest I don’t want someone getting a successful flank because I wasn’t looking at them. It does hinder flanking but not to the degree that radar does. You just want a free kill I do not. You want to be able to flank without any repercussions. If they can’t see me my flank should be absolute right? 

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1 hour ago, Jake Teh Nub said:

Did they not fix matching against teams when you search alone? I've played against a team of 4 in social three times in a row

They never did 

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Would love to have played a whole level in Guardian forest.

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7 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Would love to have played a whole level in Guardian forest.

I'm making a map based on guardian and really cant imagine how they would have handled it as a campaign map.

783c15b470495812d26ce34b09fa9188.jpg

I'm hoping when modding comes we can just make our own maps for h3 like this. Or port h2 ones and art them up ourselves if need be. Lockout on h3 would be pretty boring looking with the low poly art and lack of any other environment art. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Ok I’m just gonna be honest I don’t want someone getting a successful flank because I wasn’t looking at them. It does hinder flanking but not to the degree that radar does. You just want a free kill I do not. You want to be able to flank without any repercussions. If they can’t see me my flank should be absolute right? 

Hello IcePrincess

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1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Hello IcePrincess

Hello you don’t deserve a free flank. I’ve pulled plenty of flanks in h5 against good players, because news flash they don’t know it’s my foot steps, or they obviously are firing at my teammates so they can’t even focus on my foot steps. And news flash you’re going to have to deal with footstep sounds wether you like to or not since no game these days is going to remove them since a lot of us like to hear our opponents coming since hearing our opponents is a form of awareness. It feels cheap to be killed by being shot in the back or back smacked. Footstep sounds aren’t a flank killer like a 25 meter always on radar. I’m not saying you should be able to hear them far away AF just around the vicinity of you is good enough, but noooo you want it to be mute. 

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If you're framing lack of footstep noise as a crutch for the flanking player, you're out of your mind. I think there's room for some proximity noise, but it's undoubtedly a crutch for the non-flanking player. The game is literally rewarding you with information even though you aren't monitoring your back.

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11 minutes ago, ShmaltzyLatkes said:

If you're framing lack of footstep noise as a crutch for the flanking player, you're out of your mind. I think there's room for some proximity noise, but it's undoubtedly a crutch for the non-flanking player. The game is literally rewarding you with information even though you aren't monitoring your back.

Ok you may be able to hear people a person around you but unlike radar you can juke people since footstep noises aren’t accurate enough to tell you how they move step by step. Flanks happen. 2 dudes shooting their enemies from S2 to B3 aren’t going to know you’re around. Because 1. They can’t hear your steps because of their gun sounds. 2. Hear the steps but think it’s one of their teammates or their own.  But radar nope they know exactly where you’re at. 

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15 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

I've never seen so many words make so little sense. It's very impressive actually.

Haha smart guy. You can’t make a reasonable argument against no footstep sounds since your only reason is it’s a crutch to the non flanker so therefore it should go right? No that’s not how this works. Your just salty as heck these days you can’t play games like CE and what not and move around as freely as you wish. Most games these days don’t even have a radar because it ruins any form of flanking where footsteps only hinder it a little bit, which is a small price to pay because it’s annoying to get shot in the back or back smacked. 
have an open mind would ya. Get out of your old mindset. 

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10 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

"free"

Yes FREE, I didn’t stutter.  Man footstep sounds are only bad in 1v1s which if you ask me still isn’t bad, because if you couldn’t win against someone just because they could hear you around them, sorry but you were losing that anyway. 

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