Jump to content
CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

Recommended Posts

I think one of the biggest moments in Infinite will be how we start our competitive settings. I really think with Halo sitting where it currently is and all of the knowledge and experience surrounding the series we should move away from the idea of "just try it its a new game" and instead the developer and players should be asking "why would we include this new mechanic?" BEFORE we throw it in because if nobody can intelligently answer that question it will be a waste of time. It would also hopefully make the sandbox designers realize that their weapons should be designed with a purpose and tuned appropriately rather than just slapping in random stuff. Its so bad how we always get weapons like the Halo 3 Spiker. Its not bad because its damage sucks. Its bad because it fits into zero niches, wasn't designed with any intentions or purpose other than thematic monkey man weapon and is functionally just useless. That type of shit needs to stop. I really can't figure out why they don't try something cool and different to make these weapons worthwhile. If it turns out its busted you don't have to leave it laying around in multiplayer

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Fire (+1) 1
  • Hooked 1

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

I think one of the biggest moments in Infinite will be how we start our competitive settings. I really think with Halo sitting where it currently is and all of the knowledge and experience surrounding the series we should move away from the idea of "just try it its a new game" and instead the developer and players should be asking "why would we include this new mechanic?" BEFORE we throw it in because if nobody can intelligently answer that question it will be a waste of time. It would also hopefully make the sandbox designers realize that their weapons should be designed with a purpose and tuned appropriately rather than just slapping in random stuff. Its so bad how we always get weapons like the Halo 3 Spiker. Its not bad because its damage sucks. Its bad because it fits into zero niches, wasn't designed with any intentions or purpose other than thematic monkey man weapon and is functionally just useless. That type of shit needs to stop. I really can't figure out why they don't try something cool and different to make these weapons worthwhile. If it turns out its busted you don't have to leave it laying around in multiplayer

will the community/leagues have the balls to make their own settings or will they just use whatever 343 feeds them? and IF 343 feeds them what they dont like, WILL THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO MAKE THEIR OWN SETTINGS lol

 

this has been my gripe with comp halo the last few years. leagues just using 343 made gametypes instead of their own. Like MLG did, MLG didn't like vanilla h3 settings, made their own. worked fine.

 

Took 343 till the end of h5 to deliver us the settings we requested AT LAUNCH. Not tryna wait 10 years for inifinte to finally get the settings it needs.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/2/2020 at 6:01 PM, Boyo said:

Allow your mind to see past sprint, past classic halo even.

If sprint + long killtimes + unlimited respawns could ever provide an enjoyable experience, H4 and H5 wouldnt have population issues. 

It's not a classic halo thing, it's just that fact that these 3 gameplay characteristics are not compatible. 

Kinda like putting chocolate syrup on a cheeseburger. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
56 minutes ago, znot said:

will the community/leagues have the balls to make their own settings or will they just use whatever 343 feeds them? and IF 343 feeds them what they dont like, WILL THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO MAKE THEIR OWN SETTINGS lol

 

this has been my gripe with comp halo the last few years. leagues just using 343 made gametypes instead of their own. Like MLG did, MLG didn't like vanilla h3 settings, made their own. worked fine.

 

Took 343 till the end of h5 to deliver us the settings we requested AT LAUNCH. Not tryna wait 10 years for inifinte to finally get the settings it needs.

The problem is the players. Deep down they want the $$ so they’re going to play whatever 343 gives. I got into an argument once with Spartan about this. He tried to tell me it wasn’t true they’ll play whatever, blah blah we demanded new settings, NO! You guys still decided to play in the tourney with bullshit settings! If y’all actually gave a damn you’d boycott the tournament unless new settings were made! A simple removal of the AR or radar wouldn’t of done shit to break the game! 

Share this post


Link to post

I don't really understand why it takes 343 so long to make updates anyway. The first weapon balance update to H5 came like 7-8 months after the game released. They must lay off the contractors that make up 90% of their productivity immediately after a game releases.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Hooked 3

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

I think one of the biggest moments in Infinite will be how we start our competitive settings. I really think with Halo sitting where it currently is and all of the knowledge and experience surrounding the series we should move away from the idea of "just try it its a new game" and instead the developer and players should be asking "why would we include this new mechanic?" BEFORE we throw it in because if nobody can intelligently answer that question it will be a waste of time. It would also hopefully make the sandbox designers realize that their weapons should be designed with a purpose and tuned appropriately rather than just slapping in random stuff. Its so bad how we always get weapons like the Halo 3 Spiker. Its not bad because its damage sucks. Its bad because it fits into zero niches, wasn't designed with any intentions or purpose other than thematic monkey man weapon and is functionally just useless. That type of shit needs to stop. I really can't figure out why they don't try something cool and different to make these weapons worthwhile. If it turns out its busted you don't have to leave it laying around in multiplayer

@Warlord Wossman brought this up and I initially disagreed with him, but I've kind of come to accept what he(?) said. 

The problem with Halo is that it's main crowd is full of casual players who are completely ignorant to everything except the few issues (and non-issues) that affect them, and the developers also treat Halo as a game that's primarily meant to be played casually. IE, their design of the games is primarily driven by blind aping of previous titles, whatever they think that current players will like, and making the game readily accessible to thumbless Timmy. 

Halo (since 2/3) hasn't really been a game with a lot of competitive inspiration behind it's design, just a game that was played competitively. It's why people attended and competed in tourneys for Sprint + Bloom Reach. 

The slim hopes that I have for Infinite are based off the fact that Forge and custom options are apparently so powerful that they're gonna carry the game till 2031.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, znot said:

will the community/leagues have the balls to make their own settings or will they just use whatever 343 feeds them? and IF 343 feeds them what they dont like, WILL THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO MAKE THEIR OWN SETTINGS lol

 

this has been my gripe with comp halo the last few years. leagues just using 343 made gametypes instead of their own. Like MLG did, MLG didn't like vanilla h3 settings, made their own. worked fine.

 

Took 343 till the end of h5 to deliver us the settings we requested AT LAUNCH. Not tryna wait 10 years for inifinte to finally get the settings it needs.

? It wasn't up to the players lol. 343 wasn't going to allow people to run official HCS events without their settings then. Sure people could've just said fuck 343 events to try and make them support the other things but that'll never happen when they're just dumping money into the scene

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

? It wasn't up to the players lol. 343 wasn't going to allow people to run official HCS events without their settings then. Sure people could've just said fuck 343 events to try and make them support the other things but that'll never happen when they're just dumping money into the scene

Money talks louder than complaints. 

Share this post


Link to post

The Covenant Carbine is a headshot capable, slug-fed, projectile bullet behavior rifle that is found in the sandbox. The number of these are  limited to 1 or 2 per 2v2/4v4 arena map. 

It's utility is not in it's ability to kill, but it's effectiveness in crippling targets who attempt momentum-heavy plays, who attempt to move across precarious map geometry, descoping enemies at further range, and in (literally) pushing enemy players out of certain power positions; denying them access to angles, information, and in a subdued state in the process. 

 

Scope: 2x magnification. 

Max Rate of Fire: 720 RPM

Shots to Kill: 12SK (assuming the 12th shot is aimed at the head), 20SK otherwise. 

Magazine Capacity and Spare Ammo: 24 round magazine, upto 120 spare rounds. In Multiplayer, it will only spawn with 1 spare magazine. 

Projectile Velocity: The projectile has a velocity of 310 WU/second. For reference, the utility weapon has a velocity of 230 WU/second. 

Projectile Properties: The projectile causes knockback to the target with each hit, in the  direction of the impact. A single hit will displace the target by 0.9 meters (Exactly 1/4th of melee range). 

If the last round to hit an enemy's shields is a slug from this rifle, then the shield stun time (the time that the player needs to not take any damage before their shields recharge) is increased from 5.5 seconds to 7.5 seconds. 

 

The weapon is a bit easier to shoot than the utility and is far less adept at raw killing potential, but a very effective suppressive tool for pushing people out of areas. It's like a reverse-area denial weapon; area denial weapons are most effective at providing telegraphed threats to opponents for entering an area, whereas this weapon is more effective at pushing people out of whatever small-yet-key area they're already in. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

720 rpm is too fast for a semi automatic weapon fired by a controller trigger.  
 

Not a fan of messing with the shield recharge delay.  
 

Knockback is tantamount to Flinch so be careful how you implement it or it could be annoying.  If the goal is to push enemies out of an area, perhaps one, powerful, knockback projectile would be more effective than many minor knockback projectiles.  

Share this post


Link to post
39 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

The Covenant Carbine is a headshot capable, slug-fed, projectile bullet behavior rifle that is found in the sandbox. The number of these are  limited to 1 or 2 per 2v2/4v4 arena map. 

It's utility is not in it's ability to kill, but it's effectiveness in crippling targets who attempt momentum-heavy plays, who attempt to move across precarious map geometry, descoping enemies at further range, and in (literally) pushing enemy players out of certain power positions; denying them access to angles, information, and in a subdued state in the process. 

 

Scope: 2x magnification. 

Max Rate of Fire: 720 RPM

Shots to Kill: 12SK (assuming the 12th shot is aimed at the head), 20SK otherwise. 

Magazine Capacity and Spare Ammo: 24 round magazine, upto 120 spare rounds. In Multiplayer, it will only spawn with 1 spare magazine. 

Projectile Velocity: The projectile has a velocity of 310 WU/second. For reference, the utility weapon has a velocity of 230 WU/second. 

Projectile Properties: The projectile causes knockback to the target with each hit, in the  direction of the impact. A single hit will displace the target by 0.9 meters (Exactly 1/4th of melee range). 

If the last round to hit an enemy's shields is a slug from this rifle, then the shield stun time (the time that the player needs to not take any damage before their shields recharge) is increased from 5.5 seconds to 7.5 seconds. 

 

The weapon is a bit easier to shoot than the utility and is far less adept at raw killing potential, but a very effective suppressive tool for pushing people out of areas. It's like a reverse-area denial weapon; area denial weapons are most effective at providing telegraphed threats to opponents for entering an area, whereas this weapon is more effective at pushing people out of whatever small-yet-key area they're already in. 

Rather than making it take a million shots to kill, I'd prefer it as a battery weapon that overheats right before a perfect kill at max fire rate. Then it can be good at softening up targets for your teammates to clean up. Then potentially give it plasma damage so it can do more to overshield.

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, Boyo said:

720 rpm is too fast for a semi automatic weapon fired by a controller trigger.  

Yeah, the intent was to essentially have a firerate that exceeds the practical limit of triggerpulls possible on a controller without giving the rifle an uncapped firerate, since I think it'd potentially be kind of broken on a mouse. 

13 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Not a fan of messing with the shield recharge delay.  

I wasn't too big of a fan but I wanted the weapon to have an emphasized suppressive role, which is why I decided to keep it at a 36% increase in wait time. Do you think that the extra stun time's too high, or that extending recharge time goes against some principle of design? 

19 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Knockback is tantamount to Flinch so be careful how you implement it or it could be annoying.  If the goal is to push enemies out of an area, perhaps one, powerful, knockback projectile would be more effective than many minor knockback projectiles.  

I actually forgot to consider how it'd affect the target's aim, good catch. 

Though, if the way that the targeted player gets displaced is continuous (and not like mini-teleporting), the reticle offset that happens to the targeted player should also be gradual. 

11 minutes ago, Sitri said:

Rather than making it take a million shots to kill, I'd prefer it as a battery weapon that overheats right before a perfect kill at max fire rate. Then it can be good at softening up targets for your teammates to clean up.

On board with this idea. 

13 minutes ago, Sitri said:

Then potentially give it plasma damage so it can do more to overshield.

How strong OS should be is obviously map sensitive and up to the creator's decision, on some maps it could be the most important item to control, and it could be a minor powerup on others.

That being said though, a 2x scoped rifle with the ability to take large bites out of OS might make the powerup a bit too weak. 

Also I kind of want the Plasma Rifle to take the primary OS-melter role

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
27 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

What do you mean by "crowd control"? 

Any weapon/ability where the primary purpose is to hinder player movement, stripping the player of any agency in that regard.  Overwatch has these in spades, lucio's boop, Reinhardt's slam, Ana's sleep dart etc. A gun that barely does damage but can literally push you out of an area sounds like that.  

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, Boyo said:

So, a baby beam rifle?  

I suppose in the same way a BR is a baby sniper.

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, _Synapse said:

@Warlord Wossman brought this up and I initially disagreed with him, but I've kind of come to accept what he(?) said. 

The problem with Halo is that it's main crowd is full of casual players who are completely ignorant to everything except the few issues (and non-issues) that affect them, and the developers also treat Halo as a game that's primarily meant to be played casually. IE, their design of the games is primarily driven by blind aping of previous titles, whatever they think that current players will like, and making the game readily accessible to thumbless Timmy. 

Halo (since 2/3) hasn't really been a game with a lot of competitive inspiration behind it's design, just a game that was played competitively. It's why people attended and competed in tourneys for Sprint + Bloom Reach. 

The slim hopes that I have for Infinite are based off the fact that Forge and custom options are apparently so powerful that they're gonna carry the game till 2031.

Wasn't CE also designed not with competitive play in mind? I remember reading that bungie was just making the multiplayer as a mode to fuck around with friends with. The fact that it turned out as well as it did also seemed to be more luck than anything to me.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
54 minutes ago, infraction said:

Wasn't CE also designed not with competitive play in mind? I remember reading that bungie was just making the multiplayer as a mode to fuck around with friends with. The fact that it turned out as well as it did also seemed to be more luck than anything to me.

It’s amazing what keeping things simple and logical can do for competitive merit.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

It’s amazing what keeping things simple and logical can do for competitive merit.

But on the other hand,

tenor.gif?itemid=6038094

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Simms (+1) 3
  • Hooked 7

Share this post


Link to post

Got stuck in those purple barrels in top green on Dammy. I see that MCC is still working flawlessly. 

  • Simms (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

I wish halo was like other esport games. Like halo we have to change the settings for better comp gameplay. But overwatch, CS, league, fortnite everything is the same. Although fortnite does reduce the materials you can hold to 1500, and rewards 50HP per kill. 
my point is why do we have such a huge problem? Many here and myself hate radar. I personally believe the advanced movement radar is what we should use because even casuals can accept that radar I’m sure. You can still flank, get back smacks on your opponent, you showing up because you’re shooting doesn’t give away exactly free info. H5 played great with it. And I’ve played complete no radar in h5 and the two play the same way for the most part. I’m JS something that turns off a lot of people is the lack of radar/mini map(we should have a mini map instead in my opinion)  and sometimes the lack of weapons on the map. 

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

I wish halo was like other esport games. Like halo we have to change the settings for better comp gameplay. But overwatch, CS, league, fortnite everything is the same. Although fortnite does reduce the materials you can hold to 1500, and rewards 50HP per kill. 
my point is why do we have such a huge problem? Many here and myself hate radar. I personally believe the advanced movement radar is what we should use because even casuals can accept that radar I’m sure. You can still flank, get back smacks on your opponent, you showing up because you’re shooting doesn’t give away exactly free info. H5 played great with it. And I’ve played complete no radar in h5 and the two play the same way for the most part. I’m JS something that turns off a lot of people is the lack of radar/mini map(we should have a mini map instead in my opinion)  and sometimes the lack of weapons on the map. 

A compromised radar might be the only option if you want a playlist that's meant to scratch the itches of both casual and non-casual players. 

6 meters of range, refreshes feedback every half second. At that point, it's not quite large enough to be a huge pain in the ass at higher level play, but it's still a nuisance.  

The other alternative method, is to make it so that games with every player rank below 10-15ish spawn with radars. 

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

A compromised radar might be the only option if you want a playlist that's meant to scratch the itches of both casual and non-casual players. 

6 meters of range, refreshes feedback every half second. At that point, it's not quite large enough to be a huge pain in the ass at higher level play, but it's still a nuisance.  

The other alternative method, is to make it so that games with every player rank below 10-15ish spawn with radars. 

The first one would be better and I think 18M would be better. If you only appear when firing then I don’t think that’s a nuisance. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

The way you get rid of radar is to associate it with vehicles.  Arena doesn’t have vehicles so it doesn’t have radar.  Squad and Invasion have vehicles so they also have radar.  

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Thonking (+0) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.