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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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1 hour ago, NAK said:

Are the seasonal challenges broken for anyone else? I mean it is to be expected with 343, but it is pretty annoying I won't be able to get my Gold CE skins. 

Pretty much all of the challenges break on me at least once a week. With them either ignoring progression, or filling up entirely and still not unlocking.

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38 minutes ago, TeeJaY said:

Challenges have been buggy in general. I suggest making a custom firefight. Unlocked those skins pretty quick.

I did this the other day. They counted up during the game and then resorted back to what they were (which was already wrong) once I ended it. Gotta love it. 

11 minutes ago, Sitri said:

Pretty much all of the challenges break on me at least once a week. With them either ignoring progression, or filling up entirely and still not unlocking.

The weekly challenges work pretty well for me at least, some games better than others.

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2 minutes ago, NAK said:

I did this the other day. They counted up during the game and then resorted back to what they were (which was already wrong) once I ended it. Gotta love it. 

The weekly challenges work pretty well for me at least, some games better than others.

The 20k score challenges usually count up to 3, and then forget I completed them so I need to go back and do another for them to pop. The same could be happening with the gold skin challenges. 10 minutes in Firefight with an instakill pistol isn't that painful.

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On 8/11/2020 at 4:40 PM, Noodle said:

Does anyone know a fileshare where I can get the final competitive H4 settings? Or at least what the final version number was so I keep trying to find them?

I never played any of the comp settings myself and would be interested in trying them out if they're still available.

v4 was the last played in tournament, v5 had extra DLC maps + Ricochet but was not played in tournament.

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16 hours ago, Twis7ed said:

Put some respek on H1. Outside of Rapha, there isn't an extreme skill gap between the top 10 players in Quake..especially now with Quake Pro League. Hell, even Rapha drops maps. Ogre1 and Ogre 2 never lost a single on host game in H1. The skill gap in H1 is massive, even in the top 10.

If you honestly think that CE has a higher skillgap than Quake I assume you don't understand Quake.
Also the top 10 being rather tight doesn't mean anything, a game can have a big skillgap and there can still be a tight grouping of players, if you think about it some pros in that league have been at the top for nearly 15 years. Also console esports were mocked by the PC community since day one so a lot of good arena shooter players never touched Halo as the aiming is insanely simplified along a ton of other things, the Ogres didn't have the same competition in CE that people like Cooller have in QPL where you got pros from 4 different Quake games competing where the first game released in 1996.

Don't get me wrong CE is my fav out of the box Halo but its skillgap is nowhere near PC arena shooters.

14 hours ago, BigShow36 said:

It would actually be a really good game. The "controllers need aim assist" debate is so bad I can rarely muster the energy or interest to break it apart. 

And calling CE "easy mode Quake" is moronic. That's like saying Soccer is easy mode Hockey because the players go slower. 

Not sure how direct your analogy is trying to be but there is much more differences than player speed between CE and Quake, but as @Snipe Three already mentioned the core arena shooter concepts in Halo are basically taken from Quake and UT, they made it work from console which is cool and all but you can obviously tell it's a similar concept modified to squish the skillgap since CE was meant to be a casual game compared to Quake which actually kickstarted esports in the first place.
If you want to go into detail about why it's "moronic" to say I will listen, but currently it seems more like you went into defense mode about Halo.

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20 hours ago, Boyo said:

When we were modding Halo 4 gametypes, we tested no aim assist.  Players emptied entire clips at each other and hit nothing but air.  

Sure... in Halo. A game like CoD would play much, much better without coded aim assists like bullet magnetism and sticky reticle. Why? Because the accuracy and power of the weapons combined with ADS (which is a form of player-controlled assist) make's it entirely realistic. I didn't say every console game should have no aim assist. 

 

19 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

Its not just movement speed. Its that they took the gist of Quake and slowed it down/reduced it to work for a controller. Not the campaign but the afterthought multiplayer they added for CE. It worked out well but its pretty transparent where the inspiration came from. Conceptually they didn't do anything new they just adjusted it to fit the game. The power ups, the timers, the way weapons are placed on maps etc. None of that came from Halo. It may be more correct to just say easy mode arena shooter or console friendly arena shooter "influences". The innovative thing bungie did with CE is making that work so well with a controller in your hands. It takes skill and intelligence to play CE but its definitely little brother to the games they took those ideas from much the same way people would compare later Halo titles to CE

Its actually a really good representation of how gaming evolved over the last ~30 years. Most of the successful titles have taken ideas and dumbed them down to become more accessible to much larger audiences. Its a pretty neat transition if you can figure out where the influences come from and track where they end up before its all said and done. Another good example would be the MMO genre coming from text based games all the way through Everquest and finally into WoW and each step of the way they figure out a way to broaden the appeal of the same general idea

They share many of the same core traits but use completely different inputs and gameplay strategy. I didn't say it wasn't influenced by Quake, or any popular shooters that came before it, I said it wasn't easy-mode Quake. If it was "easy-mode" Quake then any Quake player should be able to jump right in and dominate, right? That doesn't happen. The controller is inherently less precise and thus requires a different type of dexterity and gameplay to work well. The strategy of Halo is totally different than Quake. It doesn't automatically make it less skillful. One could argue that aiming well with a controller is more skillful than aiming well with a Mouse because it is less precise and difficult to control. The reason Quake is so fast is because it needs to be fast to deepen the aiming skill gap. I certainly can agree that the skillgap in Quake is most likely larger, but not by some extreme degree that puts Halo to shame. 

But again, I don't really have the time or interest to delve into this argument in too much depth anymore. 

Just to be clear, I'm only referring to Halo CE in this discussion. 

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22 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

They share many of the same core traits but use completely different inputs and gameplay strategy. I didn't say it wasn't influenced by Quake, or any popular shooters that came before it, I said it wasn't easy-mode Quake. If it was "easy-mode" Quake then any Quake player should be able to jump right in and dominate, right? That doesn't happen.

This would absolutely happen if you take any Quake player you could call decent (and by decent I don't mean pro, just your average player who understands the concepts), if they every played a shooter on controller before it would be even faster but it doesn't take long to have relatively good aim with controller if you are good in shooters and know how to tweak settings.
And yeah maybe you don't see a lot of people who play Quake touch Halo, but that's not because it's hard for them to transfer their skills - it's mostly because AFPS players on PC value high refreshrate gaming, mouse aiming, good input and decent netcode - things Halo does not have (in an acceptable form) as of today.
 

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The controller is inherently less precise and thus requires a different type of dexterity and gameplay to work well. The strategy of Halo is totally different than Quake. It doesn't automatically make it less skillful. One could argue that aiming well with a controller is more skillful than aiming well with a Mouse because it is less precise and difficult to control.

Yeah controllers are less precise and feel clunky which is why the game adds aim assist and other mechanics to not make it so awkward for new players.
However arguing that aiming well on a controller is more skillful than aiming well on a mouse is about the most delusional thing I ever heard somebody say on this forum, sure it's harder because your thumb isn't as accurate as your entire arm and hand combined but this doesn't mean the aiming skillgap is actually higher, in fact the opposite is true: Mouse aiming gives players very high levels of control allowing much bigger differences in skill than limited aiming with an analog stick - even with zero aim assist.
It would also be harder to use your feet to aim the mouse, yet it doesn't really make it more skillful as mice are made for hands and thus accel at helping people show their true aiming skill that way. Analog sticks requiring aim assist is a hint that it's not a very fitting input for aiming to begin with which in turn mostly squishes the skillgap because you fight the physical device more than developing your own style of tracking/flicking/etc.

Also if you want to elaborate how the strategy is entirely different let me know, sure for CE it's not just teamshot like any Halo game that came after but it's still your basic combat positioning + fighting for items / timing, I don't see how Quake doesn't have that even if it's a much more complex version of it.
 

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The reason Quake is so fast is because it needs to be fast to deepen the aiming skill gap. I certainly can agree that the skillgap in Quake is most likely larger, but not by some extreme degree that puts Halo to shame.

I would argue it's a pretty extreme degree for many reasons that really does put Halo to shame in basically every aspect possible.
Honestly think most people including the ones who made Halo CE would agree with that in a heartbeat. And I am not saying this to talk down Halo generally, just making a point because Halo CE was not meant to be the deep super competitive game some people make it out to be, and it really is not.
It does more than any other Halo which makes it far more interesting to me than BR 4v4 on midship but at the end of the day it gives you a ton of breathing room by limiting weapons people can hold to 2 at a time to not let map control get strong, spawns you with one of the strongest guns in the game which allows a for a ton of error, has passive health regeneration that most of the time can't be punished, slowed item timing down to the point where you don't have to make the right decisions what to push as often and many more mechanics which straight up water down the differences in player skill to manifest themselves in a scoreline.

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Quickly so there is no misunderstanding, when referring to "Aim assist" it's ONLY the game helping you track your reticle. Bullet magnetism is not included in that. At least that's the way i see it, though people tend to lump them together like the're the same thing, not so much around here though.

0 aim assist in ANY console shooter is asinine horseshit.  I wouldn't even say it's the most skillful way to play because a thumbstick is such an inferior, imprecise input method compared to a mouse.  At high levels you would be introducing hardware limitation based RNG without some sort of aim assist to smooth it out.  EVEN IF you wanted to make the claim that it was "possible" to play a console shooter without aim assist, it would be so terribly uncomfortable to play nobody would. Aim assist is certainly way too strong in most games, but to get rid of it entirely is silly.

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21 minutes ago, HeX Reapers said:

Reminder that 343 flipped the terminology which only makes the discussion in the Halo community unnecessarily more confusing.

? they flipped it back to the right terminology then? That's really for the best. 

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7 minutes ago, Riddler said:

? they flipped it back to the right terminology then? That's really for the best. 

No they didn't, just a recap.

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50 minutes ago, HeX Reapers said:

No they didn't, just a recap.

i dont get it

bungie set it so that aa = bullet bending and that magnetism = reticule friction. you can see it in halo 1, halo2, and h3 code. 

so if 343 flipped it, it means they made it right

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8 minutes ago, Riddler said:

i dont get it

bungie set it so that aa = bullet bending and that magnetism = reticule friction. you can see it in halo 1, halo2, and h3 code. 

so if 343 flipped it, it means they made it right

Didn't know Bungie said that too, that's pretty dumb. Guess 343 wins this round.

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8 minutes ago, HeX Reapers said:

Didn't know Bungie said that too, that's pretty dumb. Guess 343 wins this round.

Autoaim making your bullets hit even if you miss, and your reticle being magnetic make more sense than the terms the community have been using all these years.

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They should modify h4 with Descope before releasing it on Mcc therefore best game in the collection. Also no sprint 

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Does anyone else have horribly inconsistent aim on controller? Some days I'll land every single shot and blain every single opponent, but other days I can barely 5 shot Timmy walking towards me in a straight line while spraying his AR from 50 feet away. 

Meanwhile on KBM, my aim's extremely consistent. 

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Just now, _Synapse said:

Does anyone else have horribly inconsistent aim on controller? Some days I'll land every single shot and blain every single opponent, but other days I can barely 5 shot Timmy walking towards me in a straight line while spraying his AR from 50 feet away. 

Meanwhile on KBM, my aim's extremely consistent. 

It depends at times.

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I think this is the only definition they ever gave for for Aim Assist: "Aim Assist – This value affects how ‘easy’ it is for a projectile to hit the target. Think of this as a gentle helping hand to reduce the accuracy penalty if you’re not 100% perfectly lined up on your target. In a world where we have split second battles occurring over network conditions, aim assist helps to make things a bit more forgiving/consistent and generally feels better as a player."

 

 

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Everyone is making montage so I thought I'd make a video that tries to capture a more realistic experience of Halo matchmaking. I've never done something like this before so I hope it's not terrible.

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16 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

Quickly so there is no misunderstanding, when referring to "Aim assist" it's ONLY the game helping you track your reticle. Bullet magnetism is not included in that. At least that's the way i see it, though people tend to lump them together like the're the same thing, not so much around here though.

0 aim assist in ANY console shooter is asinine horseshit.  I wouldn't even say it's the most skillful way to play because a thumbstick is such an inferior, imprecise input method compared to a mouse.  At high levels you would be introducing hardware limitation based RNG without some sort of aim assist to smooth it out.  EVEN IF you wanted to make the claim that it was "possible" to play a console shooter without aim assist, it would be so terribly uncomfortable to play nobody would. Aim assist is certainly way too strong in most games, but to get rid of it entirely is silly.

I agree with this for the most part. Getting rid of it entirely without making the game feel like shit would be difficult. The closest any shooter on console has ever gotten to feeling truly great without aim assist is the Titanfall franchise.

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In my opinion there should be enough aim assist to provide assistance to you, but not so much where you can just not touch your right stick and simply strafe with your left stick. We mouse users can’t do that, neither should you.

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@Shekkles You made Halo look really fun.  We often lose sight of that goal.  It was nice to hear your teammate go “ah i suck” instead of raging into the mic.  Nice snipes.  
 

 

 

righto 

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3 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Everyone is making montage so I thought I'd make a video that tries to capture a more realistic experience of Halo matchmaking. I've never done something like this before so I hope it's not terrible.

I enjoyed that! I only have one bit of feedback - have the audio mix prioritize your voice over everything else so I can get a sense of your personality better. Follow that with your mates volume level then music, then gameplay! Great work, dude

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Glad that people actually manage to have fun on MCC. 

There's a few major things that really kill my enthusiasm to play. 

Abysmal hit reg, horribly skewed server allocation, SBMM, and horrible map rotation. 

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