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What are the most well-liked maps from CE? Personally, I love Damnation and Creek. Then again, I'm a very mediocre HCE player. 

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4 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

What are the most well-liked maps from CE? Personally, I love Damnation and Creek. Then again, I'm a very mediocre HCE player. 

Chill Out and the Purple Palace (Damnation) are probably my two favorites. Creek is pretty divisive as well as Hang em' and Rat Race. Prisoner seems to be a favorite as well. 

I'm no expert, but that seems to be the general consensus i've seen. 

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Damnation is my favorite map of all time because slayer works so well on it, at least in 2's. You can't really say that most maps work well in slayer.

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On disc maps, Prisoner and Chill Out. Only map I'm not a fan of is Derelict but maybe that's just because I suck. Pris and Chilly I could play for hours. Downrush is amazing as well if we want to bring new maps into the discussion.

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

What are the most well-liked maps from CE? Personally, I love Damnation and Creek. Then again, I'm a very mediocre HCE player. 

I'm the worst CE player on this forum. I'm so trash. But I'm a huge fan of Damnation and Creek as well.

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Most players these days place Damnation, Chill Out, and Prisoner in the top tier, at least for 2v2 Slayer, which is what most players who still LAN play. I agree that they're the best in the game, and if pressed to pick a favorite, I'd probably choose Dammy. The lines of sight good players can create on that map are insane, and the meta around controlling camo is super deep given how many places you can nade it down from (and can even have it land in different places depending on the situation as well).

The other maps have issues that players may find annoying, and there's less general consensus among the community on exactly how good the remaining ones are. But even maps that are commonly disliked in the context of 2v2 slayer may work well in other modes. Rat Race is a good example, as it's rarely played 2v2 given how campy and slow it can be if the players are tryharding, but it's arguably the best 4s map in the game imo.

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I dont think there are any maps I dislike in CE because the pistol & power item timers make every map playable. 

It's funny how MLG used such a small portion of Halo's dev maps post-CE. Imagine how many more maps could have been in Halo Esports if Bungie/343 got killtimes & item timers right. Maybe we could have had more than just symmetrical maps.

Anyway, Chill Out is my fav map.

Also love Priz, dammy, and rat race.

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Creek has always felt too random for my taste, and conversely I've always enjoyed Rat Race. Derelict is decent on LAN, but online it's nearly unbearable with the registration issues compounding the inherent snowballing on that map. Same is true of Hang Em - I like it on LAN, online it's nearly unplayable. 

Prisoner is probably the purest manifestation of core CE; pistol and nades, weapon timing and spawn control. Making a mistake with any one of those components can sway the match in an instant. I'm not saying that means it's perfect, but if you wanted to see the most granular example of the components that make CE work, 2v2 prisoner is probably it. 

Also, like @Aphex Twin mentioned above, the core gunplay and gameplay of CE can make any map work. That's also why so many maps in the later games seemed like trash; the gameplay is so dumbed down that the maps need to be perfect for them to work. 

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Prisoner is probably my favorite map in the entire series but it would never work in any game other than CE

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I should add that my impressions of these maps come from 4v4 MCC TS with randoms and no communication. Far from an ideal CE setting. 

The only maps I "dislike" are Rat Race and Dere, though that's only really because I don't know how to play them. (Not implying that I know how to play the others particularly well)

I think the discussion surrounding maps is equally important to that surrounding sandbox design and utility weapon design. 

The stagnation problem with most of H2 and H3's maps don't come from the long TTKs and long-ass item timers alone, they also come from maps and spawn systems that are almost designed with said stagnant tug-of-war in mind. 

You could somewhat mitigate a lot of H2's across-the-map BR sniping by placing fast spawning, static power items on extremely vulnerable points of the map. Something like a 2-round rocket launcher spawning every 1:30, or a camo spawning every 1:00 in the place of the shotgun on Lockout. 

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7 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

I should add that my impressions of these maps come from 4v4 MCC TS with randoms and no communication. Far from an ideal CE setting. 

The only maps I "dislike" are Rat Race and Dere, though that's only really because I don't know how to play them. (Not implying that I know how to play the others particularly well)

I think the discussion surrounding maps is equally important to that surrounding sandbox design and utility weapon design. 

The stagnation problem with most of H2 and H3's maps don't come from the long TTKs and long-ass item timers alone, they also come from maps and spawn systems that are almost designed with said stagnant tug-of-war in mind. 

You could somewhat mitigate a lot of H2's across-the-map BR sniping by placing fast spawning, static power items on extremely vulnerable points of the map. Something like a 2-round rocket launcher spawning every 1:30, or a camo spawning every 1:00 in the place of the shotgun on Lockout. 

I would argue that it still wouldn't solve the map issues due to how the sandbox is designed. The sandbox and weapon design is what makes everything else work, and even with fast spawning, static power items on extremely vulnerable points of the map, as you suggest, the issues would still remain. In fact, placing them in vulnerable points on the map would likely exacerbate the issue. 

The problem with post-CE Halo games and their maps is the ease of gunplay and slow TTK. Everything else stems from this. High aim assists combined with slow TTK leads to the inevitability of what I call "teamshot Halo," where the only effective strategy is to have more guns pointing at an enemy player than they have pointing at you. Essentially, an individual player cannot be effective against multiple opponents without a power weapon. The dynamics of static powerups don't work very will with that, because a powerup can only be used by 1 person. If 1 person is forced to grab a powerup in a vulnerable position, they are essentially exposing themselves to even more extreme teamshot with zero ability to fight back. The game would still stagnate into stalemates around those powerups, because any individual who attempted to reach the powerup would get melted. 

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Chill Out is my favorite for sure. Priz is cool too, but a lot more unforgiving. You gotta be on your A-game if you're playing against anyone halfway-decent.

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My favorite CE maps are Derelict and Wizard. I don't mind getting spawn killed a lot if it means I get to spawn kill a lot. 8v8s on Derelict were so fun, I hope that rotational playlist comes back.

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

maps ... designed with stagnant tug-of-war in mind. 

This is why I'd argue that Pit & Narrows TS are the worst gametypes ever to be used in Halo esports.

Honestly dont know if faster killtimes/timers could save these maps.

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Pris, Dammy, Downrush are top 3 IMO.

Exhibit, Imminent, and Atlas are up there too.

I don't like Chilly and I hate Derelict. Sorry not sorry.

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4v4 on Blackout is a very shitty Halo experience. My god. Hope I never run into that again. 

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8 minutes ago, TeeJaY said:

4v4 on Blackout is a very shitty Halo experience. My god. Hope I never run into that again. 

I bet it's better than 4v4 on Standoff.

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13 minutes ago, Sitri said:

I bet it's better than 4v4 on Standoff.

Can't argue there. Absolutely hate Standoff. They named it appropriately at least. 

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31 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

I raise you 4v4 on Construct 

I actually don't feel completely powerless on Construct. I'll take it over the former two.

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