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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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If it wasn't for the Hardcore/MLG settings I would never have played Halo.

 

Regular Halo is just so damn bad.

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4 hours ago, Rick said:

If it wasn't for the Hardcore/MLG settings I would never have played Halo.

 

Regular Halo is just so damn bad.

It's an interesting thought that we are all here because of MLG made Halo playable 2 decades ago and we are all still chasing that High 

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8 hours ago, Igs cubanex said:

It's an interesting thought that we are all here because of MLG made Halo playable 2 decades ago and we are all still chasing that High 

Good thing Halo Infinite is in MLG's hands.

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2 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

Good thing Halo Infinite is in MLG's hands.

Word? Is that true? I haven't been keeping up with anything, I kind of assumed 343 would be taking the reigns and doing their own thing with ESL again.

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The sad part is that social settings aren't even that unsalvageably bad. Yes, there's a lot of dumb shit that doesn't need to exist, but it isn't fundamentally unplayably bad, like Reach or something. 

If you watch players like Transfered or sSyphoN or check out sweaty H3 team slayer gameplay in general, there's still a considerably large bit of thought and positioning that goes into matches. It's nowhere near what it is in CE or even MLG Halo 3, but it's still very sweaty. 

Minimal changes I'd make:

- Movement speed and damage multiplier need to be 110%. 

- Replace all the OS spawns with the custom OS where you can't cheese invincibility and you get two layers of OS. 

- Change the camo such that throwing grenades doesn't knock you out of camo. 

- A lot of maps should not feature more than 1 unique type of equipment. There is NO NEED to have a regen AND a bubble shield. 

- No redundant placement of Grav Hammers, Swords, and Shotguns on maps. One of these is bad enough. Shotguns do NOT get more than 6 shells of ammo. 

- Radar needs it's range cut DOWN from 25 meters, the lowest H3 allows is 15 meters but I'd push for more like 5-7 meters. 

- Remove the fucking fusion coils. There's no skill to having them go off randomly, it's just an inconvenience you have to deal with. Seriously try pushing rockets on Assembly at the beginning when you have to choose between nading the enemy team or nading the rocket platform and blowing up the coils so you don't get blown up when you get to said platform. Or like those top mid on Narrows. 

- Place SMGs a bit more on the maps so that they can actually be used to fish for a player in camo, kinda like CE's AR. 

Just minimal changes. Ideally we'd go with MLG settings entirely. 

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25 minutes ago, -DeucEy- said:

Word? Is that true? I haven't been keeping up with anything, I kind of assumed 343 would be taking the reigns and doing their own thing with ESL again.

They're partnered with Esports Engine, which is Adam Apicella's new company featuring some ex-MLG folk as well as some new faces. The extent of the deal we technically don't know since we don't really know Infinite's tournament plans. There's a couple things discussed in the announcement article that I'll link, but definitely no concrete details. https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/hcs-esports-engine-announcement

 

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It goes to show you how good H3 is with how many people still play MCC even though the shots dont ever reg.

 

Narrows is beast just because the man cannon jumps.

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13 hours ago, Igs cubanex said:

It's an interesting thought that we are all here because of MLG made Halo playable 2 decades ago and we are all still chasing that High 

All the custom game and forging that the community has painstakingly gone through (since halo 3 really) is the competitive community's version of cooking meth.

 

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2 hours ago, -DeucEy- said:

Word? Is that true? I haven't been keeping up with anything, I kind of assumed 343 would be taking the reigns and doing their own thing with ESL again.

Its true! 

hcs-ee-1120x394-b8285df71bb543ad8b6b67a9

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1 hour ago, Apoll0 said:

All the custom game and forging that the community has painstakingly gone through (since halo 3 really) is the competitive community's version of cooking meth.

 

The sad part is that probably we will never experience that High again, it doesn't matter how good of a Halo comes it will never match what we felt when we felt in love with competitive Halo. 

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22 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Did power drain kill the bubble shield?

It doesn't kill it but phases through it and it's area of rffect overlaps

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On 7/24/2020 at 8:36 PM, Hootspa said:

I was planning on making a stand-alone program which would patch the map files and start mcc in mods enabled mode and unpatch the maps once you exit mcc but even that’s not great cause who wants to run some sketchy exe file.

if mods were handled more seamlessly (I’ve not done any modding other than h2v so idk how other games handle this) I think that would make a project like that much more viable

That's basically how other mod loaders are handled, including ones used in Eldewrito. People are pretty comfortable running exe's if the source is open; eases maintenance as well.

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On 7/28/2020 at 6:13 AM, Knighty Knight said:

Good thing Halo Infinite is in MLG's hands.

I mean as far as I’m concerned that’s no bloom every precision gun. In the reveal the guns with bloom didn’t actually have real rng bs bloom. It was a speed indicator.

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On 7/16/2020 at 12:12 AM, Hootspa said:

Yes my dude, random spread even on LAN. The UTILITY WEPON in h3 is SPECIFICALLY designed so that at average engagement distance, with perfect aim there is something like a 1/4 chance it takes 5 shots to kill instead of 4. We did the math years ago and I forget the exact numbers, but it means that the winner of a BR battle is FACTUALLY more random than halo 2.

How does a team compensate for gunplay where the winner of an individual BR battle is partially random? They get around the randomness by always making sure that one or more of their teammates can shoot at an enemy with them. Teamshot in halo 2 is also extremely effective, but there was also the potential for a single player to take out an entire team with their BR alone so it wasn't as critical to be good at teamshot in h2.

Okay, but I didn't prove that teamshot is bad, I just showed that halo 3 REQUIRES teamshot whereas h1 doesn't at all and h2 doesn't require nearly as much... Well, think about this for a second. If you always need to be in a position where you can help your buddies shoot someone, and your buddies always need to be in positions where they can help you teamshot someone, what does that tell you about where you and your buddies should be positioned? Almost always, you should be near your buddies and they should be near you. In halo 3, if you go off by yourself to do something (besides pick up an actual useful weapon), just using this reasoning alone we can write that off as MOST LIKELY a mistake. In halo 1 or even halo 2, this same action could be part of a larger strategy and could give your team some advantage, but in halo 3 this is simply a mistake because if two baddies roll up on you there's nothing you can do.

Analysis over. Yes I'm only discussing the utility weapon in isolation and there are grenades and power weapons that also affect gameplay and strategies. Now, to deal with the inevitable excuses you're going to come up with to try and explain how grenades/power weapons gives you all the individual power you need and my analysis is wrong, just remember that in the other halo games you STILL have grenades/power weapons that you can leverage in ADDITION to your utility weapon which already has enough power to take out a team by itself alone.

Halo 3 is plain old LESS SKILLFUL. There is NO GETTING AROUND IT.

@Toastomgi3 let’s at least bring this to the right thread. You said we have no argument. Respond to the arguments laid out in this post or PLEASE stop posting in general. If your halo skills are as poor as your debating skills, it’s no wonder why you prefer halo 3.

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11 minutes ago, Hootspa said:

Wrong. H1 and even H2 are better games than H3.

I mean I enjoy h3 far more than h1, and there’s objective reasons for that. 

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Just now, Reamis25 said:

 

I mean I enjoy h3 far more than h1, and there’s objective reasons for that. 

Wrong. You enjoy it more because as @Toastomgi4 acknowledged, h3 requires less skill. You enjoy it more because it lets you feel like you are a more talented player than you really are.

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35 minutes ago, Hootspa said:

Wrong. You enjoy it more because as @Toastomgi4 acknowledged, h3 requires less skill. You enjoy it more because it lets you feel like you are a more talented player than you really are.

I hate the movement of h1, the fall damage. If you as a good h1 player can’t play h3 better than an h3 guy like me what does that say? That tells me each of these has a different skill gap and play style, and I prefer one over the other. I won’t ever say h1 takes more skill nor will I say it holds less than h3. 4v4 is what matters in the halos I enjoy as well than a game like ce where it’s game is 2v2 requirement for it to play properly. I’m not that great at 2s to begin with so there’s that. 

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7 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

I won’t ever say h1 takes more skill... 

That's just a fact though. 

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10 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

That's just a fact though. 

On who’s authority does that become a fact I’m honestly curious? Faster TTK, power up spawning? Like toast is a dick I can see that and he’s not right either but it’s not right to claim X is more skilled than the other simply because you enjoy that more or you’re better at that. 

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17 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

On who’s authority does that become a fact I’m honestly curious? Faster TTK, power up spawning? 

Yes, the faster pacing of the game is more demanding on both an individual and team level. 

If my aim is good enough, I can 3sk you before you have the chance to react in CE - that's the beauty of having minimum TTK equal to avg human reaction time. 

In H2 and on, you have much more time to react. The game is less punishing with slower TTKs. 

In CE, teams are forced to fight over power items every 60 seconds. This is much more demanding than stagnating for 3 minutes (cough Pit TS cough...). 

So many more factors are relevant here too - CE's momentum based melee vs lunge, burst fire sweeping vs single shot, grenade tricks, intricacies like backpack reloading & BLB vs H3 where nothing close to that level of depth is available, long grenade fuse times vs short fuse times, probably more that I'm forgetting.

By every objective measurement, CE is the most skillful halo game that has ever been developed. It's not by anyone's authority, it's a matter of applying logic when thinking about the game's mechanics. Common sense.

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30 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

I hate the movement of h1, the fall damage. If you as a good h1 player can’t play h3 better than an h3 guy like me what does that say? That tells me each of these has a different skill gap and play style, and I prefer one over the other. I won’t ever say h1 takes more skill nor will I say it holds less than h3. 4v4 is what matters in the halos I enjoy as well than a game like ce where it’s game is 2v2 requirement for it to play properly. I’m not that great at 2s to begin with so there’s that. 

So if a chess player can’t automatically beat a checkers player at checkers, the two games must be similar in skill level? Yeah the chess vs checkers comparison is overdone, but that’s essentially what you are arguing.

In one game your options are limited, in the other you have far more you can do. I’m not saying there’s nothing to get good at in halo 3, but I AM saying that what there is to get good at in halo 3 is a boring and brainless subset of what there is to get good at in halo 1. Why would I spend my time trying to perfect my halo 3 decision making when the best strats are almost always some variation of get snipe and use it against powerless BR weilders, and team shot people. Sure, there’s coordination required to do that, but it’s brainless, boring, and linear.

Imagine arguing against someone who prefers AR starts in halo 3 and claims if you can’t beat them at AR starts then there must not be a skill difference. Hopefully you can see why that is a poor argument. Why would you practice a dull, boring and more random version of the game you like just to try to prove that your version of the game is better when you can just describe WHY br start is better in a series of good arguments.

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