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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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28 minutes ago, Toastomgi said:

TTK doesnt merit which utility weapon is better. I would choose MLGs 2 shot BR beatdown over Halo1s double beatdown glitch 100% of the time. The skillgap fits perfectly. The overall game feels better and combos register better. Take into consideration of the sandbox and H3s strafe combod with the BR beats having a panick attack on your controller spam crouching on H1 anyday and everyday.

>H3 fucking out-of-screen-opponent-being-hit-by-melee magnetism is better than CE's no lunge and aim heavy melee

jpeg

 

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22 minutes ago, Toastomgi said:

I feel like people on this forum hate on H3 because they suck at it.

H3's the game from the original trilogy that I'm best at and I still think that H2 and HCE are superior skill-wise. 

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1 hour ago, _Synapse said:

I think the death of Halo's sandbox can be traced back to when we started giving autos a lower TTK in their optimal range than the utility weapons. 

It doesn’t help that that /r/halo gets literally whatever they want whenever they complain I’m pretty sure after the AR was nerfed in H5 they complained and it ended up getting buffed to the point it was stronger then it was pre nerf.

But anything that we post here that’s actually despite it being backed up with actual logic might as well go into a black hole because 343 can’t handle any criticism whatsoever and never come on these forums.

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Saying Halo 3 is the least competitive of the Halo trilogy has nothing to do with someone's skill level in the game. You can happily like and think Halo 3 was the most fun Halo game, that's all opinion and nothing wrong with that, but that's an entirely different discussion. 

Does anyone know numbers wise how well Halo 3 is doing overall and compared to CE and H2 when they first released? I have streamers that I follow that I didn't even know played Halo or FPS games that are playing H3 customs so I'm curious how well it might be doing. 

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Doesn't mcc speed up killtimes by virtue of the framerate or something?

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52 minutes ago, Toastomgi said:

I feel like people on this forum hate on H3 because they suck at it.

People dislike it for its flawed gameplay loop, wimpy sandbox, and shoddy netcode. Everything else about it was pretty cool, but you are a fool to deny that the Battle Rifle was designed to be worse. The scene was at its highest, but the state of the game was at its lowest. Reach didn't fare much better.

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2 hours ago, Riddler said:

Halo 1-4 (pre patch h4. They lowered the shots to kill from 5 to 4 but also slowed down the rate of fire on the br. dmr had it's rof decreased as well) that @Sitri (I believe) made. IIRC ce pistol is .6, halo2 is 1.4X (guessing 1.43), halo3 is 1.5X (pretty sure its 1.53), and halo4 is 1.6X pre patch. why cant i find this image, it's always hard to find. i save it every time i find it, but i CAN NEVER FIND IT ON MY HDD. MCC does have wonky kill times, never seen a vid. those are the OG numbers

I think the kill times for the h2 and h3 br end in a 3 or a 7. I kinda doubt it's 1.47 and 1.53 though so 1.43 and 1.57 maybe idk

 

edit: found an old post by doju that claims 1.43 for the h2 br and 1.52 for h3 br. Also states 1.8s for the h4 5sk br lmao.

 

h2a: Battle Rifle 1.52 by our own @KurtiZ He is the one with the yt that claims 1.17s but in his comment he later clarifies that the xbox one clipping feature speeds up clips so its actually 1.52

halo5 taken from a wep tuning post: stk-dbea5c1813784409a18fdd1f8bc11376.jpg

 

A quad shot being 0.9seconds sounds about right. firing twice should be ~0.95 seconds so in theory a perfect rrx yy rrx should be faster than 2 shots, but not by much since firing, yying, and firing is slightly faster than normally shooting

 

@MultiLockOn

Not my image, and the DMR fire rate was unchanged in the Halo 4 update. I believe the only thing changed was its autoaim range.

JM7fYsE.jpg

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18 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

People dislike it for its flawed gameplay loop, wimpy sandbox, and shoddy netcode. Everything else about it was pretty cool, but you are a fool to deny that the Battle Rifle was designed to be worse. The scene was at its highest, but the state of the game was at its lowest. Reach didn't fare much better.

All excuses because they suck at the greatest game in the franchise. With the outcome like H3 had you can't say otherwise. LAN H3 > then LAN CE and 2 in terms of fun. Its still running at least at a decent level but I can't say the same for CE or 2.

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1 hour ago, Aphex Twin said:

H3 is the least skillful game of the OG trilogy. This is simply a non-debatable fact.

Common knowledge since 2008.

Acknowledging this doesnt mean your good at Halo.

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2 minutes ago, Toastomgi said:

All excuses because they suck at the greatest game in the franchise.

Refusing to acknowledge Bungie's scummy attitude at dumbing down their games as they went, simply because of an accusation of our skill levels, is not a good counterargument. I won't be responding to you anymore, and I would recommend others do the same.

Enjoy your game.

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14 minutes ago, Toastomgi said:

All excuses because they suck at the greatest game in the franchise. With the outcome like H3 had you can't say otherwise.

Nickleback is the best band ever cuz they have lots of fans.

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1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

Doesn't mcc speed up killtimes by virtue of the framerate or something?

By a few hundredths of a second, yes. 

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Everyone is here because of H3. H2. Or CE.

1 hour ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Refusing to acknowledge Bungie's scummy attitude at dumbing down their games as they went, simply because of an accusation of our skill levels, is not a good counterargument. I won't be responding to you anymore, and I would recommend others do the same.

Enjoy your game.

Their game is magnificent. And sounds like you suck at H3.

53 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Nickleback is the best band ever cuz they have lots of fans.

It could be represented as so. At least decent.

Side note: Infinite should follow H3 and be a BR lead type game.

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2 hours ago, Toastomgi said:

I feel like people on this forum hate on H3 because they suck at it.

H3 literally exists because some bungie employee got shit on so hard in h2 by a single player that they “fixed” the sandbox so that it takes an entire team to shit on someone

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H3 feels like the game where someone who got out shot so bad in CE in H2 that they like teamshot being the only viable strategy 

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It's pretty well known that each subsequent Halo since CE has tried to limit the individual player. Bungie increased kill times to the utility weapon and added RANDOM spread on said utility weapon. Just look at montage clips. You'll have a hard time finding clips of multi kills in H3 that aren't using snipe/rockets because the game pretty much prohibits the individual from outshooting multiple people w/ the BR. 

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Do you think random spread on utility weapons is good? 1.6 second killtimes? Dynamic spawn timers? Lock on melee? Literally 4 different weapons across all of the MLG maps? AR starts? 

If none of these, then stop defending Bungie. They had their heads up their asses when designing Halo and didn't even have the most basic idea of how their game was played. 

Were their games alright? Yeah, most of them were OK. Did that make them good developers? Fuck no. 

 

My source for the H3 BR being a 1.36sec video also seems to have been recorded on Xbox DVR, so let's scale that up too. 

1.52/1.17 = approximately 1.3

So, the H3 BR's TTK is 1.76 seconds. Absolutely splendid. And here I was thinking that Reach had ******edly long kill times. 

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I think content creators(ex. Red vs blue etc). Montage creators(ex. Phurion etc) and third party (ex. Th3f etc) would all agree H3 is the best game when it comes to entertainment and creativity.

22 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Do you think random spread on utility weapons is good? 1.6 second killtimes? Dynamic spawn timers? Lock on melee? Literally 4 different weapons across all of the MLG maps? AR starts? 

Ar starts tf?

Random spread? LAN my dude.

The sandbox was perfected on H3. Data shows H3 had the most popularity when it comes to  activity and content wise. After H3 everything tanked.

Bungie is the sole reason everyone is on this forum. I dont get the hate here.

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24 minutes ago, Toastomgi said:

I think content creators(ex. Red vs blue etc). Montage creators(ex. Phurion etc) and third party (ex. Th3f etc) would all agree H3 is the best game when it comes to entertainment and creativity.

Ar starts tf?

Random spread? LAN my dude.

The sandbox was perfected on H3. Data shows H3 had the most popularity when it comes to  activity and content wise. After H3 everything tanked.

Bungie is the sole reason everyone is on this forum. I dont get the hate here.

Yes my dude, random spread even on LAN. The UTILITY WEPON in h3 is SPECIFICALLY designed so that at average engagement distance, with perfect aim there is something like a 1/4 chance it takes 5 shots to kill instead of 4. We did the math years ago and I forget the exact numbers, but it means that the winner of a BR battle is FACTUALLY more random than halo 2.

How does a team compensate for gunplay where the winner of an individual BR battle is partially random? They get around the randomness by always making sure that one or more of their teammates can shoot at an enemy with them. Teamshot in halo 2 is also extremely effective, but there was also the potential for a single player to take out an entire team with their BR alone so it wasn't as critical to be good at teamshot in h2.

Okay, but I didn't prove that teamshot is bad, I just showed that halo 3 REQUIRES teamshot whereas h1 doesn't at all and h2 doesn't require nearly as much... Well, think about this for a second. If you always need to be in a position where you can help your buddies shoot someone, and your buddies always need to be in positions where they can help you teamshot someone, what does that tell you about where you and your buddies should be positioned? Almost always, you should be near your buddies and they should be near you. In halo 3, if you go off by yourself to do something (besides pick up an actual useful weapon), just using this reasoning alone we can write that off as MOST LIKELY a mistake. In halo 1 or even halo 2, this same action could be part of a larger strategy and could give your team some advantage, but in halo 3 this is simply a mistake because if two baddies roll up on you there's nothing you can do.

Analysis over. Yes I'm only discussing the utility weapon in isolation and there are grenades and power weapons that also affect gameplay and strategies. Now, to deal with the inevitable excuses you're going to come up with to try and explain how grenades/power weapons gives you all the individual power you need and my analysis is wrong, just remember that in the other halo games you STILL have grenades/power weapons that you can leverage in ADDITION to your utility weapon which already has enough power to take out a team by itself alone.

Halo 3 is plain old LESS SKILLFUL. There is NO GETTING AROUND IT.

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11 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

This is the dumbest set of arguments 

But here's why rockets and sniper shouldn't be in the game and why CTF should be the only gamemode.

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1 minute ago, OG Nick said:

But here's why rockets and sniper shouldn't be in the game and why CTF should be the only gamemode.

They're gone now nick they can't hurt you anymore

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Just now, Mr Grim said:

They're gone now nick they can't hurt you anymore

Sorry but these 3 year old custom game stats say otherwise

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This guys has to be baiting us if he thinks people spam crouch in Halo 1.

There's nothing wrong with liking the way H3 plays, but a lot of people around here have turned against it in recent years. It's also worth noting that when MCC first came out Halo 4 was the most popular game in the collection for like a year so I wouldn't use popularity to form your opinion unless you're secretly an H4 fan.

H1 is still the best game though :Toxic::fire::Toxic::fire:

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