Jump to content
CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

Recommended Posts

On 7/10/2020 at 12:43 PM, Knighty Knight said:

1. When Halo 3 was at its peak in 2009/2010 it had 9 years of building it up into a massively cultivated community through Halo 1 and Halo 2's success. 3 titles all gaining tons of momentum. Even Reach had a few events with around 250 and the Halo 4 opener did as well thanks to previous success
 

Why weren't they able to continue that success through Halo 4 and Halo 5?

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Jmacz said:

Why weren't they able to continue that success through Halo 4 and Halo 5?

MLG stopped holding tournaments. Our competitive community put all of our eggs in one basket. 

Share this post


Link to post
15 minutes ago, Knighty Knight said:

MLG stopped holding tournaments. Our competitive community put all of our eggs in one basket. 

Smash was able to survive without MLG, it took them a few years and the Gods to bring them back but they managed. If anything MLG almost killed Smash by going with the new game (Brawl) that the majority of the competitive community hated. And after they got dropped they spent a few years on their death bed before EVO brought Melee in 2013 because the community raised almost 100,000$ All this while Nintendo actively did everything they could to stop it from happening before finally giving up.

And please save me from the, "well Smash is 1v1 and Halo is 4v4 so it's harder blah blah blah". Yes, it is harder to get a Halo tournament together. But our community is so split because of the shit the developers have done to the game over the years Bungie included. If only we could actually get a game the majority of us agree on.

  • Like (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Jmacz said:

Why weren't they able to continue that success through Halo 4 and Halo 5?

They didn't try to. You have to understand MLG was operating at a loss during most (all?) of Halo's run so while the competitive community was growing and bungie was growing the wider Halo community it wasn't actually a super profitable venture. Thus when Reach continued to underperform and fall off over time and MLG had opportunities for more successful games such as SC2 the only logical move was to drop Halo. They dropped Halo. Bungie left. 343 made another game which took even more steps down. The community dispersed to other titles or quit gaming entirely for the most part and to make the rest short here we are.

We're not smash. We don't have a lot of grassroots community tournaments to build off of. MLG was our competitive scene rather than just the stage it was played out on. When they left it wasn't "well lets go back to playing where/how we did before" it was "well shit that was pretty much the only place most of us really ever consumed or participated in competitive Halo content". Even our online competition was handled by MLG at the end of the day with settings and the people who crafted them. They monopolized nearly every single aspect of the Halo community when it came to competitions so being dropped effectively turned the scene off while people scrambled around trying to figure out what to do. Then we had a run of bad looks with things such as AGL along with bad games so who really wanted to stick around for that? Perhaps if we had taken that moment and gone back to a single agreed upon game it would have worked out but since MLG had continued to press on with only the newest titles our community was split 4 or 5 ways at that point and I doubt that consensus would ever really be reached while retaining large community interest. Either way it was essentially a full reset on competitive Halo

Basically the tldr would be that Halo 3 was built upon continued success, investment and actual landscape changing innovation where everything following is full of challenges, regression, hurdles and failures. Both for the wider appeal of the games and the smaller look at just the competitive end of things

  • Like (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Toastomgi said:

When people say Halo 3 PC is AMAZING

Kevin-Hart.jpg

It's the same game as it is on xbox

Nah it's got the benefit of 144hz and a FoV that doesn't make me watch to vomit the minute I touch it. 

 

At least the dodgy hit reg looks nice now. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

We don't have any grassroots community tournaments because the community can't agree on one game. To keep up the Smash comparison when Brawl came out the majority of the community went back to Melee and agreed on that. When we had Halo 4 and to a lesser extent Reach, there was never a consensus game we could fall back on.

You had your CE purists who believed it was that style of play or the highway. Personally I grew to agree with them over the past 10 years.

Then you had Halo 2 people who thought the button glitches and slightly longer kill times were ideal.

Then there were Halo 3 people who were really just there because that was when the game peaked.

Edit: You edited your post while I was typing this and see you kinda went back to the point I made here. My entire point I'm trying to make here is that Halo 4 and Halo 5 killed this community. Not MLG, not us, those two games did. They took a community that was already split and cut it in half again. And I just disagreed with KnightyKnights post about how the Halo 5 community is big and would thrive on PC because I just don't agree.

I don't doubt that Halo 5 doesn't have a decent population, but it's nothing in comparison to what it used to be. And certainly not big enough to revive the competitive scene.
 

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Fire (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I think one of the biggest things is that generally the only entity within Halo that's still around out of the people who made Halo successful are the players themselves. Bungie is gone. If we're talking competitive Halo MLG is gone too. Different people are managing and running things at a different time and getting a different result which isn't really all that surprising

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

I think one of the biggest things is that generally the only entity within Halo that's still around out of the people who made Halo successful are the players themselves. Bungie is gone. If we're talking competitive Halo MLG is gone too. Different people are managing and running things at a different time and getting a different result which isn't really all that surprising

Esports Engine is MLG staff and they are running H6. 

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Knighty Knight said:

Esports Engine is MLG rebranded and they are running H6. 

Yeah I thought about that I'm just not sure what level of control they're really going to have going forward. I sort of doubt it'll be 100% like it was back in the day

Share this post


Link to post

Everyone still seems to keep an eye on whats going on though. I was gone for 5 years, I left after the Halo 5 beta and only came back because people I'm still friends with because of Halo told me it was coming out on PC. Played Reach once in that span at a birthday party to toy with my friends who didn't know how much I used to play. I know I can't be the only one like that. The community is still around, but I still think a good game that the majority of us can agree on (because we'll never 100% agree on everything) would bring enough people back for there to be an active competitive community again.

I personally would never come back as tryhard as I used to, but I would 100% go to a tournament with my friends if Infinite is good.

  • Like (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Jmacz said:

Everyone still seems to keep an eye on whats going on though. I was gone for 5 years, I left after the Halo 5 beta and only came back because people I'm still friends with because of Halo told me it was coming out on PC. Played Reach once in that span at a birthday party to toy with my friends who didn't know how much I used to play. I know I can't be the only one like that. The community is still around, but I still think a good game that the majority of us can agree on (because we'll never 100% agree on everything) would bring enough people back for there to be an active competitive community again.

I personally would never come back as tryhard as I used to, but I would 100% go to a tournament with my friends if Infinite is good.

I agree and those are the people we're missing at events and online. There were always layers of people younger/older who maybe really didn't practice that much and just had fun competing at events and playing online. They didn't necessarily even want to go pro or practice a shit ton. They were just having fun. It sort of sucked that a lot of that ended over the years and at times it feels like MS/343 are just baiting people to compete with money. Its a lot harder to achieve but when people start playing and competing for the enjoyment of it in large numbers is when things will see real success imo

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

MLG stopped holding tournaments. Our competitive community put all of our eggs in one basket. 

Denial is harsh on some

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Salt (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, Snipe Three said:

We don't have a lot of grassroots community tournaments to build off of.

In a lot of states, this wasn't true. Michigan, Florida, Nebraska (of all places), Ohio, and the New England area in general had huge, active local Halo scenes. Reach killed this almost literally overnight - I went to dozens and dozens of H2/H3 LANS, I never went to a single solitary Reach LAN.

Should we have had the gumption to go back to H3 like Smash stayed with Melee? Probably. Maybe that huge, active local scene was more fickle than we knew, but it was there.

  • Like (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah I can understand pros moving to the game where they could make the most potential money, but as soon as MLG dropped Reach, every single one of them should have been back on Halo 3. 

  • WutFace (+0) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I'm genuinely confounded by why people voluntarily play in default H3 tournaments. I can understand wanting variety in a game, I can't understand wanting bubble shields and radars on. 

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

In a lot of states, this wasn't true. Michigan, Florida, Nebraska (of all places), Ohio, and the New England area in general had huge, active local Halo scenes. Reach killed this almost literally overnight - I went to dozens and dozens of H2/H3 LANS, I never went to a single solitary Reach LAN.

Should we have had the gumption to go back to H3 like Smash stayed with Melee? Probably. Maybe that huge, active local scene was more fickle than we knew, but it was there.

New England still had a really good community for Reach, mostly because me and Cheeky (coached Impact when they won one of those events). I ran the players in Massachusetts thread (which was basically New England) back when the MLG forums were still up. And Cheeky and my other buddy who went by The Rev held a few LANS. It died in 2011 when I stopped playing Reach and Cheeky stopped coaching but we had a lot of really good players still during that time. We had  Weakness, Flip, BBK, Nickel 9, Pure, Exhale, Rooney, Massacre, Mudvayne even came to a few LANs at the start of Reach. And all of them made top 24/32 at some point. Then you had players like me, The Rev, Pwnsi, Wombat, Aftermath, and Lemyn (not the Lemon I'm quoting) who were all really good and were fringe top 48 players. And then we had our "forum kids" which me and Cheeky 100% were, and we also had Alpha_BB who was very active and showed up to LANs and events.

I stopped going to events after playing really bad the one and only time I got to play for points at CBus 2011, coached Weakness's team to 22nd at Raleigh, and went to Providence for shits and giggles.  Cheeky stopped coaching to go to school, and everyone else just kinda stopped playing and it's been dead here ever since. That's why I was saying I don't understand what Snipe_Three was saying with grassroots communities because New England was thriving from 2008-2011. Ironically most everyone stopped playing when they finally took sprint out.

Edit: We even had a community montage put together in 2011 a few months before people started quitting. It was Halo 3 because it had been passed around from like 3 different editors before someone finally finished it.
 

 

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I heard from a friend that you can reset your matchmaking ban timer to 0 if you enter a custom game while banned and quit immediately. Has anyone tried this? I'll try to get like a 3 minute ban so I can check this out. 

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Jmacz said:

Ironically most everyone stopped playing when they finally took sprint out.


 

 

lol. I've been there. For me I was validating the game sucked because of this and that, that were was hope, but when it was finally set to no sprint no bloom, i realized the game was still bad. there still weren't ranks so nothing to grind. AA and BM were so high so it wasn't satisfying to aim. 

Share this post


Link to post
21 hours ago, Jmacz said:

We don't have any grassroots community tournaments because the community can't agree on one game. To keep up the Smash comparison when Brawl came out the majority of the community went back to Melee and agreed on that. When we had Halo 4 and to a lesser extent Reach, there was never a consensus game we could fall back on.
 

The majority of the community didn't go back to melee. Like the brawl kids... they're still not playing melee. They kept playing brawl then smash4 then ultimate. However, people would go to tournaments and enter both brawl and melee, so there wasn't really a divide in entrants or people to play. It'd be like if CE events were held during all h2, h3, tournies and all the good ce kids who played h2/h3 kids entered. The issue is that even if that happened to halo, all the sponsorship money would go to the newer halo anyway so no1 would play ce outside the diehards because splitting focus at a tournament is stupid when the reward isnt there. 

Now sure, there are some players who started in brawl and went to melee (Fiction is a good example), but many just stopped playing melee and kept going on (larry lurr, esam) or never gave melee a chance even when brawl was dead (nairo, dabuz, salem, ally, mr r, anti, 9b and any other jp player). 

What happened to melee is a lot of luck. The doc exploded. PM released around the same time and brought so many people to the scene which brought people to melee. Then when PM got axed by twitch and nintendo, many jumped ship to melee. Online emulation being playable since the late 2000s also helped, and it's only gotten better. Maybe the social aspect of it helps as well. Brawl never had good online while halo2 did. so for non die-hards, there wasn't much difference. You either put in the melee disc or the brawl disc. Meanwhile for halo, you could play halo2 online, whenever you wanted. The convenience probably robbed a lot of halo ce players. The melee community also shifted their mentality during this time. They were really toxic like the halo community still is, but they developed a more mature and welcoming attitude thanks to community leaders stepping up. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Fire (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

In a lot of states, this wasn't true. Michigan, Florida, Nebraska (of all places), Ohio, and the New England area in general had huge, active local Halo scenes. Reach killed this almost literally overnight - I went to dozens and dozens of H2/H3 LANS, I never went to a single solitary Reach LAN.

Should we have had the gumption to go back to H3 like Smash stayed with Melee? Probably. Maybe that huge, active local scene was more fickle than we knew, but it was there.

Those aren't the type of events I'm talking about here. I think most of us have been to things like computer arena back in the day in GA or someones house or other local LAN type stuff or even a little harder to arrange like say a beach lan. When I said grassroots tournament I mean something of a significantly larger scale but not with MLG levels of production. Basically the competitive halo community coming together and filling out/funding a bracket somewhere for a weekend. We've just never really had someone to pull us all together consistently without larger companies funding it. TLN probably could've turned into this one day if it had continued to be successful and figured out a location. That's the sort of thing we needed if we were ever going to be separate as a community from whatever HCS/MLG/whoever decides to feed us

This is pretty much why we almost die off every time there's a bad game and MS isn't dumping huge cash prizes into the scene. For some reason we've never been able to just say no and play the games we do enjoy. We show up and burn out on the games of the series that we might not like until almost nobody is playing. Its way more community driven than a lot of people might think too because if this small section of Halo players who wish to be competitive are worth investing in then it doesn't really matter which game we're playing. If everyone just said fuck it and played H2 tomorrow the tournaments and investments would follow. Especially if we just ran tournaments for the newest game (basically advertisement) alongside the older one

  • Heavy Breathing (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.