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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Let’s talk about Backwash. I need people to articulate what they hate about it. I think it’s the biggest victim of mob-mentality hate in the whole franchise. There’s so much worse out there.

The only thing I can think of is no starting nades, which sucks and we should change it. Aside from that? The fog isn’t even that bad. The geometry of the map seems pretty mediocre to me. Like, Assembly tier.

What is the big deal? I’d much rather play Backwash than Tombstone or Gemini.

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2 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Let’s talk about Backwash. I need people to articulate what they hate about it. I think it’s the biggest victim of mob-mentality hate in the whole franchise. There’s so much worse out there.

The only thing I can think of is no starting nades, which sucks and we should change it. Aside from that? The fog isn’t even that bad. The geometry of the map seems pretty mediocre to me. Like, Assembly tier.

What is the big deal? I’d much rather play Backwash than Tombstone or Gemini.

It used to be impossible to see anything even when my eyes were 20 years younger.

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4 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Let’s talk about Backwash. I need people to articulate what they hate about it. I think it’s the biggest victim of mob-mentality hate in the whole franchise. There’s so much worse out there.

The only thing I can think of is no starting nades, which sucks and we should change it. Aside from that? The fog isn’t even that bad. The geometry of the map seems pretty mediocre to me. Like, Assembly tier.

What is the big deal? I’d much rather play Backwash than Tombstone or Gemini.

You can't really see very far and like you said the geometry isn't good for, well, anything. Why would we want to play it? Its just a bad map among other bad maps that I wouldn't wish to play. The games usually result in people posting up on a hill somewhere or crouching around with shotgun/sword in the center

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The more I think about it, the more it feels like H2’s Assembly. The hills are the bases, the Sword Tree is Rocket Tower, shotgun side is Regen, and the middle is honestly very similar, except with lifts instead of a drop down. It even has a camo in center too.

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Assembly was a bad map but it was good for doubles. In fact many of the maps played in doubles worked far better than 4v4

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4 hours ago, Hard Way said:

The more I think about it, the more it feels like H2’s Assembly. The hills are the bases, the Sword Tree is Rocket Tower, shotgun side is Regen, and the middle is honestly very similar, except with lifts instead of a drop down. It even has a camo in center too.

A lot of Bungies maps are rehashes. Longshore is just mega Pit. 

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I sometimes think  we should start with only one grenade. You still can have two max but one nade spawn 

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14 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

I sometimes think  we should start with only one grenade. You still can have two max but one nade spawn 

I've wanted that in Halo 3 but I remember getting negged to hell on the MLG forums.

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On 6/5/2020 at 4:15 PM, Hard Way said:

Let’s talk about Backwash. I need people to articulate what they hate about it. I think it’s the biggest victim of mob-mentality hate in the whole franchise. There’s so much worse out there.

The only thing I can think of is no starting nades, which sucks and we should change it. Aside from that? The fog isn’t even that bad. The geometry of the map seems pretty mediocre to me. Like, Assembly tier.

What is the big deal? I’d much rather play Backwash than Tombstone or Gemini.

Anyone who says gemini is good needs to be put to death for treason against this country

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19 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Anyone who says gemini is good needs to be put to death for treason against this country

Most definitely. Terrible map. 

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You have to remember Gemini was a Marathon remake redesigned for people to walk around and shoot each other with SMGs and spam stickies in FFA. I'd say it's pretty fun for how it was supposed to be played. Similar ideas apply to Backwash too, which allows me to hates these maps a little less.

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Halo 3 had good maps that were often incorrectly placed. High ground in 4v4 Slayer for example. Or fucking VALHALLA in 4v4 AR starts.

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8 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Halo 3 had good maps that were often incorrectly placed. High ground in 4v4 Slayer for example. Or fucking VALHALLA in 4v4 AR starts.

Bruh that was the worse! High ground is a fun map for 4s just I never enjoyed it in ranked play 

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High Ground should have ONLY been used for 1 Bomb/Flag. The spawns were too shitty for anything else.

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Not gonna lie but I always though epitaph was a fun rumble pit map.

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4 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Not gonna lie but I always though epitaph was a fun rumble pit map.

It’s an alright doubles map. 

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4 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Not gonna lie but I always though epitaph was a fun rumble pit map.

It's very easy to make good FFA maps, all they really have to do is force constant movement. 

Problem with FFA is that it gets treated like an afterthought in every single game. I'd respect 343i that much more if, for example, they customized and repopulated the map variants for FFA on match composer. Unfortunately, you still play with the default settings for TS. 

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Nice to see it all laid out like this (this video focuses on Gameplay not story)

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32 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Nice to see it all laid out like this (this video focuses on Gameplay not story)

The video is correct but it only points out the most egregious stuff. Every Halo campaign after CE has vastly inferior sandbox, enemy, and encounter design. They're not bad, just not anywhere near as close to perfection as CE. 

This is something I hate too, the circlejerkiness of mainstream discussion around Halo multiplayer is still nothing compared to that around campaign gameplay. 

I find it genuinely infuriating that people who couldn't be fucked to 100% the game at least TWICE on legendary criticize campaign gameplay. I guarantee you, 70% the people who pull out the usual "repetitive levels" criticism of CE haven't beaten the game on any difficulty above Heroic or Normal. Likewise for the rocket flood thing, it's a dumb meme that's only relevant for like 2 encounters (not even particularly hard ones) over the entire game. 

Even in Halo 3 and Halo 2, I'd rather have to carefully select weapons, conserve ammo, prioritize targets, position myself and move carefully, shoot accurately, and use everything at my disposal than just exploit some dumb oversight where AI can abuse explosives. 

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11 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

The video is correct but it only points out the most egregious stuff. Every Halo campaign after CE has vastly inferior sandbox, enemy, and encounter design. They're not bad, just not anywhere near as close to perfection as CE. 

This is something I hate too, the circlejerkiness of mainstream discussion around Halo multiplayer is still nothing compared to that around campaign gameplay. 

I find it genuinely infuriating that people who couldn't be fucked to 100% the game at least TWICE on legendary criticize campaign gameplay. I guarantee you, 70% the people who pull out the usual "repetitive levels" criticism of CE haven't beaten the game on any difficulty above Heroic or Normal. Likewise for the rocket flood thing, it's a dumb meme that's only relevant for like 2 encounters (not even particularly hard ones) over the entire game. 

Even in Halo 3 and Halo 2, I'd rather have to carefully select weapons, conserve ammo, prioritize targets, position myself and move carefully, shoot accurately, and use everything at my disposal than just exploit some dumb oversight where AI can abuse explosives. 

I have played Halo 1, 2 & 3's campaign minimum of 20 times each, but Halo 1's is just the best singleplayer shooter I've ever played. I've played many "good" shooters, even some great shooters, but Halo 1 is the most fair shooter I've ever played. With the exception of insta-kill splatters and rocket-flood, every single death feels like it was my fault for not paying attention. The lack of sandbox elements means that was is in there is so finely tuned, so well placed and fun that it is just a dream to play. Halo 2's linear design lost it a lot of points in what could have been amazing encounters, Halo 3 brought a lot of it back but still didn't quite capture the pace of Halo 1. Bloody damn good titles.

Halo 4 and 5's AI are too stupid and the guns so generic and repeated (3 different assault rifles? come on...) that there's nothing memorable gameplay-wise.

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ODST has solid enemy and encounter design, particularly on Mombasa Streets with the wide-pipe/multiple paths format and patrols that attack from all sides. The game goes a good job of making the player think on their feet.

Sandbox isn't super great though. Limited pistol and carbine ammo capacity has you playing from ammo drop to ammo drop which is never fun. And I wish they had made engineers impervious to the sniper weapons. Its too easy to just beam rifle an engineer from afar and shut down the entire patrol.

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