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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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343 really be out here admititng the the fix for the H2C Projectile is verfied and done but its on hold until they fix the Halo 3 bugs and can patch them all at once.

343 really do be admitting that a bug that would benefit PC greatly is on hold until they fix a bug in a game, on another platform, that PC can't even play or access yet.

 

And there are people praising their 'transparency'.

fucking what

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On 5/13/2020 at 3:42 PM, vembress said:

I would've rather they had focused all their resources on bringing Halo 3 on pc first since it would've sustained the population the longest and they could just focused on fixing these insane bugs on just one game since they're clearly incapable of taking on multiple projects. Why even shut down Halo Online if you don't have a game for that big playerbase to jump to immediately ?

Oh yeah that's right. They killed Halo Online for this. Way to carve your own tombstones.

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1 hour ago, Snipe Three said:

Nah I just hate btb lol I've always just ran ffas or 4v4 in customs with people if they're on

Sorry but I like BTB and therefore you're wrong ok? Isn't that how the internet works?

1 hour ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

343 really be out here admititng the the fix for the H2C Projectile is verfied and done but its on hold until they fix the Halo 3 bugs and can patch them all at once.

343 really do be admitting that a bug that would benefit PC greatly is on hold until they fix a bug in a game, on another platform, that PC can't even play or access yet.

 

And there are people praising their 'transparency'.

fucking what

Ok for starters, this is good transparency. Imagine if they had zero communication on this entirely (hello, 2014!)? This is, quite literally, almost complete transparency. You're criticising the wrong element of this.

It also makes rational sense to merge two bugfixes into a single hotfix rather than have two seperate ones. The bureaucracy that large companies have to get through to make even small patches go live is substantial, so cutting this guff into a single patch makes sense.

I get all the 343 hate, I've posted enough of it here. But at least complain about the right things.

Complaining they launched it in this state: valid.

Complaining about their support team tweeting the specifics of a hotfix and it's status: stupid.

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3 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

I like BTB

Team Heavies on Asphalt was dope.  

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39 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

It also makes rational sense to merge two bugfixes into a single hotfix rather than have two seperate ones. The bureaucracy that large companies have to get through to make even small patches go live is substantial

If they labeled MCC as a BETA they wouldn’t need to take such complications to release updates. 

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1 hour ago, Shekkles said:

Sorry but I like BTB and therefore you're wrong ok? Isn't that how the internet works?

Ok for starters, this is good transparency. Imagine if they had zero communication on this entirely (hello, 2014!)? This is, quite literally, almost complete transparency. You're criticising the wrong element of this.

It also makes rational sense to merge two bugfixes into a single hotfix rather than have two seperate ones. The bureaucracy that large companies have to get through to make even small patches go live is substantial, so cutting this guff into a single patch makes sense.

I get all the 343 hate, I've posted enough of it here. But at least complain about the right things.

Complaining they launched it in this state: valid.

Complaining about their support team tweeting the specifics of a hotfix and it's status: stupid.

 

Yeah there's transparency, but part of that transparency is straight up admitting that PC is basically getting fucked over again because 343 won't release a patch until Console issues are resolved. The only reason they have officially given as to why thus hotfix hasnt gone live already is that they want to fix the Halo 3 issues at the same time, issues which have absolutely zero relevance to Halo PC due to the fact that Halo 3 simply does not exist on Halo MCC PC at the moment. 

it's perfectly valid for me to feel this way as there is actual, written evidence directly from 343 as a result of this transparency that means that my game experience is being fucked and held back because of unrelated issues on another platform in a different game.

uGxy5Xn.png

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31 minutes ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

 

Yeah there's transparency, but part of that transparency is straight up admitting that PC is basically getting fucked over again because 343 won't release a patch until Console issues are resolved. The only reason they have officially given as to why thus hotfix hasnt gone live already is that they want to fix the Halo 3 issues at the same time, issues which have absolutely zero relevance to Halo PC due to the fact that Halo 3 simply does not exist on Halo MCC PC at the moment. 

it's perfectly valid for me to feel this way as there is actual, written evidence directly from 343 as a result of this transparency that means that my game experience is being fucked and held back because of unrelated issues on another platform in a different game.

uGxy5Xn.png

Did you miss the part where he already addressed this entire post?

"It also makes rational sense to merge two bugfixes into a single hotfix rather than have two seperate ones. The bureaucracy that large companies have to get through to make even small patches go live is substantial, so cutting this guff into a single patch makes sense."

Yes. It's shitty. We know. But it's not like they're doing it for no reason.

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On 5/14/2020 at 9:52 PM, ChieftaiNZ said:

This line right here is why I despise having to play against controllers with AA. If Controllers can only win gunfights because of game tuning, then its not the player winning gunfights, its the game. Simple as that.

what is refresh rate, dpi, input lag, display lag, mats, etc? I don't disagree with the concept of the other parts you wrote, but ya seem to be ignoring the flaws on the other side. Input based MM is cool, but we don't/didnt have the population to support playlists with the combined pools lmao. edit: also the quoted paragraph is pretty exaggerated. skill is skill. take legend vs random pc player#234. Wow legend, the best shot in ce for the past 10 years, is losing to a day 10 ce player in aiming, that must mean pc aiming is super easy. pc player is only winning because he has a superior aiming device! It's essentially the same argument. and... games already introduce this type of game tuning. just think of halo if the sniper was as easy to aim as the br, how it breaks all balance. Game tuning makes a game. If this was 2000 and I was in charge of releasing ce on pc, and not xbox, i'd be doing shit to make the sniper harder to aim than the pistol. 

 

Also all of this is perception. 

it revolves back to the age old meme.

every1 worse than me is a scrub, every1 better than me is a hacker. That's all the complaints boiled down to. people would complain constantly that lethul is using controller in the game chat when he's streaming himself with a mouse. the greatest majority is just looking for an excuse. 

And specifically in social...

Matching parties is a bigger problem as a solo or vice versa

Matching people way better or worse than you is a bigger problem

50ms of input lag is a bigger problem

Sorry maybe went off on a tangent. I see many tote the lack of input based MM as the failure of mcc when it's not even top 25. 

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10 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Did you miss the part where he already addressed this entire post?

"It also makes rational sense to merge two bugfixes into a single hotfix rather than have two seperate ones. The bureaucracy that large companies have to get through to make even small patches go live is substantial, so cutting this guff into a single patch makes sense."

Yes. It's shitty. We know. But it's not like they're doing it for no reason.

But the PC patch isn't going to include the Halo 3 bug fixes because Halo 3 isn't on PC, and since they're two different platforms they have to going to need to do cert seperately for them anyway. 

 

So why does the PC patch have to wait for the Console patch contents to be ready, thats what I don't understand. 

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23 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Ik, I'm just noting that they could potentially implement a similar quick-fix in MCC H2 temporarily. 

Huh, does H2X run default projectile speed? 

it does as of right now but they did their own improvements to the netcode. before it was 50-100% faster and last i checked most of the pub servers run 300% speed/200% faster. 

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What I want to know is how H3 was even affected at all. I'm not a developer. I don't understand how to make games. But in no way, shape, or form does it make sense for one game's codebase to affect another's.

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2 hours ago, Faeyrin said:

What I want to know is how H3 was even affected at all. I'm not a developer. I don't understand how to make games. But in no way, shape, or form does it make sense for one game's codebase to affect another's.

In the programming world, it's known as abstraction. For example there can be some base class called Propagation and maybe in Halo 2 there's a class that inherits Propagation called H2Propagation and Halo 3 has it's own H3Propagation that each game uses respectively that does everything in the base Propagation class but has game specific logic in each of their own respective classes. There could be a bug somewhere in the base Propagation abstract class that's causing both games to mess up simultaneously. Keep in mind, I'm just pulling these class names out of my ass, Propagation in 3D Programming is how you get one asset (Object, sound, etc) to move through a specific medium and since the problems we're discussing have to deal with projectile physics, I just decided to use that word. Just wanted to add the disclaimer that this is not literal lol. Nor is this probably even remotely the problem.

The tl;dr/English version:

If two games are using some shared code in one of the core libraries in the game, while each game may have it's own specific logic, there can be some shared logic in pieces of the code -- Which is completely common in programming. 

------

That being said this entire point is rather moot because I don't think they're related. I think they'd just rather fix a bunch of stuff all at once than to have multiple updates because of logistics. I don't think the games are actually sharing any "physics" based code, but there is probably some code being duplicated between games. That part I don't doubt for a second.

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7 hours ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

since they're two different platforms they have to going to need to do cert seperately for them anyway. 

My best guess is that maybe this isn’t the case. I’m not sure. Maybe it costs something to put out a patch.

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8 hours ago, Riddler said:

what is refresh rate, dpi, input lag, display lag, mats, etc?

These aren’t even comparable. And any pc gamer will agree. Dpi! That’s just the sensitivity of your mouse and it’s 100% personal preference! Input lag umm what! What’s that got to do with anything. 
refresh rate? Ok a smoother gaming experience can make anyone play better and that fits well even for controller. There’s a reason epic made fortnite controller players aiming abilities tied to 60fps to make controllers harder to aim with. 

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2 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

These aren’t even comparable. And any pc gamer will agree. Dpi! That’s just the sensitivity of your mouse and it’s 100% personal preference! Input lag umm what! What’s that got to do with anything. 
refresh rate? Ok a smoother gaming experience can make anyone play better and that fits well even for controller. There’s a reason epic made fortnite controller players aiming abilities tied to 60fps to make controllers harder to aim with. 

Because youre not on even footing and hardware dictates your advantage. Essentially nascar instead of chess. I did list whatever buzz word appeared in my mind but not all hardware supports the same ranges of dpi. 

also idk how u dont see input lag. If i have input lag of 50ms and you have 5. Thats a clear advantage lol. if someone managed to make a controller that bypassed the input lag in a fighting game, it’d be banned, at least initially.  Used fgc because its a controller esports genre

 

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Rat's Nest is such an underrated BTB map. It's one of the few BTB maps in H3 where infantry combat feels as important as vehicular combat. 

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18 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Sorry but I like BTB and therefore you're wrong ok? Isn't that how the internet works?

Ok for starters, this is good transparency. Imagine if they had zero communication on this entirely (hello, 2014!)? This is, quite literally, almost complete transparency. You're criticising the wrong element of this.

It also makes rational sense to merge two bugfixes into a single hotfix rather than have two seperate ones. The bureaucracy that large companies have to get through to make even small patches go live is substantial, so cutting this guff into a single patch makes sense.

I get all the 343 hate, I've posted enough of it here. But at least complain about the right things.

Complaining they launched it in this state: valid.

Complaining about their support team tweeting the specifics of a hotfix and it's status: stupid.

This could all be avoided if they didn’t insist on releasing the same broken product, multiple times.

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BTB on Assymetrical 1 Bomb/1 flag maps such as Zanzibar, Burial Mounds and Terminal is an underrated Halo experience. I love it so much, especially when things get close as the time ticks down. Man Halo 2/3 really nailed the social part of Halo.

I love competitive Halo a lot, hence being here, but god damn do I love me some social Halo as well.

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21 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

BTB on Assymetrical 1Bomb/1 flag maps such as Zanzibar, Burial Mounds and Terminal is an underrated Halo experience. I love it so much, especially when things get close as the time ticks down. Man Halo 2/3 really nailed the social part of Halo.

I love competitive Halo a lot, hence being here, but god damn do I love me some social Halo as well.

I used to absolutely fucking hate gametypes like these, then I learned to chill out and hop in the passenger seat of a Warthog with rockets and just see what the hell happens.

Whoever designed the attic on Terminal can go die in a fire, though.

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35 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

BTB on Assymetrical 1Bomb/1 flag maps such as Zanzibar, Burial Mounds and Terminal is an underrated Halo experience. I love it so much, especially when things get close as the time ticks down. Man Halo 2/3 really nailed the social part of Halo.

I love competitive Halo a lot, hence being here, but god damn do I love me some social Halo as well.

Forgot Longshore.

People act like BTB is just rocket race with flags. I played plenty of intense BTB matches back in the day, especially on 3. It wasn't even lobbies full of warriors, each team could be 2 good players, a guy and his guest (or two), that one guy kicking ass in the ghost, and the rest in the middle somewhere. But the game would still be quality.

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14 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

then I learned to chill out 

This is exactly what happened to me. I was so focused on "fair" and "balanced" and "focused" and "competitive" and "skill" that I missed an entire section of the game raging in ranked. Then I started playing with some more relaxed friends who only played social and I really started appreciate more of the Halo sandbox. One of my best mates is an awful shot but an phenomenal warthog driver. Running around in the Funvee always a good time.

Just now, Larry Sizemore said:

Forgot Longshore.

People act like BTB is just rocket race with flags. I played plenty of intense BTB matches back in the day, especially on 3. It wasn't even lobbies full of warriors, each team could be 2 good players, a guy and his guest (or two), that one guy kicking ass in the ghost, and the rest in the middle somewhere. But the game would still be quality.

100%. Longshore has so much hate but I love it! Also High Ground. 

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Imagine these games (accurately) remade in a modern game engine. That is what the MCC should have been if they were thinking about it from any point of view other than a money grab. 

Infinite having mods or an extremely advanced forge is our best hope as I see it. 

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One Flag needs justice in comp. It's a shame that H3 and Reach tried it and dropped the mode early on.

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