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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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So... uhh.

 

What's the point of flighting if your fixes are basically just going to completely fuck an entire portion of your release? Halo 2 Classic is actually unplayable.

 

H2A MP is actually really fun tho. Two sides of a coin, completely and totally fucked and "hey, this is actually a decent port"

 

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4 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Hey @MultiLockOn since you’re a game developer you should like this 

Man unreal engine is amazing if only 343 decided to use that instead of make a we engine. Since if the engine is new then that was a year or two spent making the actual stage for the game to work upon.

Dude I woke up to messages from like 2 people screaming at me at 8 this morning to watch this.  Epic is the best, hands down.

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14 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Now are they seriously going to sit here and tell us they never ran into that bug during testing.

FUCKING LMAO

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4 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Well, you definitely need to aim with the center of your reticle in CE now. That would be fine if the bullet magnetism worked. Before this update, you could reliably get quick kills by using the edge of your reticle to trigger stronger bullet magnetism. That trick isn't working anymore. But now, people just get to live when you aim directly at them, while bullets miraculously go around them. I haven't played enough games to figure out the best way to shoot yet. Overall, shooting is definitely harder. I'm not sure if it's worse yet though.

Someone coming from another Halo would probably like it much more, since they would probably instinctively aim with the center anyways. But not only am I trying to shake a habit that I've spent a long time forming, but now I gotta figure out what to do when bullets just go around the guy in the middle of my crosshair.

I think blue-reticle crossmap shots are gonna be a lot more reliable now too. I used to completely depend on abusing red reticle bullet magnetism at every range, so I would always try to scope back in if I was getting descoped. Now, it's probably not worth the effort.

In my opinion that’s a good thing. I’m getting kills left and right just by shooting center but that’s how I aim in literally any game. 

 

2 hours ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

So... uhh.

 

What's the point of flighting if your fixes are basically just going to completely fuck an entire portion of your release? Halo 2 Classic is actually unplayable.

 

H2A MP is actually really fun tho. Two sides of a coin, completely and totally fucked and "hey, this is actually a decent port"

 

Yeah H2c my experience so far melees not working I kid you not, not ONE meleee worked on this guy I was up against but when he melee’d me he killed me every time. Shot reg sucks. Gosh if h2a had more maps I’d play that. 
alsohas a beta ever really fixed everything? 

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After around 7-8 minutes into a game stuff starts glitching out like shields dropping without any indication you are being shot. Shields on enemies don't show up. Grenade animations stop showing. Things like Oddball and Flag also disappear.

Clip

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This is actually hilarious at this point. Never have I seen a company this big make so many mistakes for like almost 10 years in a row now. How they are even still in business is surprising. But Halo Infinite will be good!!! Right guys!!?? :whoa:

 

 

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5 hours ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

FUCKING LMAO

Just how I remembered it.

1 hour ago, Avenger said:

This is actually hilarious at this point. Never have I seen a company this big make so many mistakes for like almost 10 years in a row now. How they are even still in business is surprising. But Halo Infinite will be good!!! Right guys!!?? :whoa:

 

 

You mean the game the refuse to show gameplay for? I'd honestly be suprised if on release we didn't just bleed through the map repeatedly and get the "Well this didn't happen in testing!" meme.

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I hope these H2 clips take off and generate some awareness that 343 is still shitting the bed at every opportunity. I'm seeing way too much optimism towards Infinite and "MMC is fixed" is apparently lore now and no longer a meme? We really need some course correction regarding the public opinion on this developer. Things like Reach's fucked audio, hit reg, performance issues and their empty promises of mod support, file share, forge, theater, crossplay, custom game browser etc. are hard to show in a short video that the average social media kid can enjoy. But these clips immediately show how fucking stupid and broken the game is and are easily shared on twitter and reddit.

 

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Not to bring back the aim assist debacle, but is it that egregious? I'll concede that controller magnetism + inverse flinch + input lag on mouse put together give controller players a noticeable advantage, but is it that strong? Out of 100 gunfights between an evenly skilled KBM and Controller player, I don't see the controller winning more than 60%. 

The thing was that everybody was complaining about it the most in Reach. It's frustrating because Reach and H3 are probably the biggest examples of Halo games where you want to avoid forcing a 1v1. 

The "pure mechanical skill" meme is so dumb. Yeah, you being able to 5 opponents every time is maybe 10-15% of the overall game, in H2-Reach. Most of the time, the map revolves around people spawn-trapping the other team and finding the best angles to ping them from. Over the course of a full game of TS between two teams of even skill, one with KBM and the other with controllers, I don't see the gap entirely due to controllers being greater than 4-5 kills. 

Plus, most PC players who tried to sweat in hardcore were new players who didn't know about the abstract team based play that is Halo Reach meta. FFS, I'm willing to bet that over 80% of them were soloQ players, too. They weren't timing weapons, checking spawns, or doing anything of the sort. Most of them (Summit1g being the most popular example) were playing hardcore like it was social slayer. 

Combine that with the fact that most controller players had played Halo for YEARS before competing against PC players who had yet to build any muscle memory, it just seems less and less likely. 

The whole crowd of people saying "I plugged in a controller and started going 20-5" seem to be lying through their teeth. If you get your shit kicked in on KBM and start magically doing several times better on controller, you're either A) Lying  or  B) Playing SWAT  or  C) Have played Halo for years on console, with a controller. Even regardless, controller is not NEARLY that strong, to instantly quadruple your K/D. There's just a general feeling of bitchiness and passive-aggressiveness that comes off people who make these posts. 

Still, input-based MM and/or a 15-20% reduction in AA + removal of flinch would probably have been the best way to go. 

If I'm wrong, can any PC guys who played and disagree correct me? 

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10 hours ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

FUCKING LMAO

Kinda puts the whole "3 builds behind" strategy in the garbage can, considering that all this will do is create negative press.

4 hours ago, legendaryshotz said:

Just how I remembered it.

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

The whole crowd of people saying "I plugged in a controller and started going 20-5" seem to be lying through their teeth. If you get your shit kicked in on KBM and start magically doing several times better on controller, you're either A) Lying  or  B) Playing SWAT  or  C) Have played Halo for years on console, with a controller. Even regardless, controller is not NEARLY that strong, to instantly quadruple your K/D. There's just a general feeling of bitchiness and passive-aggressiveness that comes off people who make these posts.

No this is pretty much 100% true. I tried playing CE on KB/M for two matches. I put that shit down, haven't tried it again since, and never will. Controller is infinitely more conducive to landing your shots. The only time I switch to KB/M is in snipers matches where it's easier to no-scope.

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23 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

No this is pretty much 100% true. I tried playing CE on KB/M for two matches. I put that shit down, haven't tried it again since, and never will. Controller is infinitely more conducive to landing your shots. The only time I switch to KB/M is in snipers matches where it's easier to no-scope.

Christ dude, it's that big of an advantage? 

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9 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

 

7 hours ago, II7 HUNTER II7 said:

After around 7-8 minutes into a game stuff starts glitching out like shields dropping without any indication you are being shot. Shields on enemies don't show up. Grenade animations stop showing. Things like Oddball and Flag also disappear.

Clip

Is this it? Has 343 finally pushed Halo so far into the grave that it can't come back out again? H2C and H3 are unplayable at the moment.

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30 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Christ dude, it's that big of an advantage? 

It's downright unquantifiable how much better it is. Those streamers and pros were right to be flabbergasted at how they were getting decked by mediocre players using controllers.

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Also can we all just have a collective laugh at how 80% of the comments in the update thread are praising 343 for their transparency.

Like, that's the only positive note they can possibly pull out of this. 343 released a flight where you can literally shoot at the ground and kill someone across the map.

I'm all for beta testing. I'm not for testing pre-pre-pre-pre-alpha versions.

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44 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Christ dude, it's that big of an advantage? 

Yes it is 

I hate it when I play a player who’s played h2 since day one so they start wall hugging gosh that glitch pisses me off. It’s one of the glitches that honestly should just be patched in because it’s such a bs thing. It’s stuff like that why people like h3 a lot more because less bs. It’s as bad as head glitching. H3 had way less exploits that don’t bring frustration. 

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16 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Something that's surprising to me is how many people were bitching about controllers being aimbot in Reach, how few did so in CE, and how many are doing it again in H2A. 

I expected it to be the opposite. Reach and H2/A both have teamshot-heavy meta, where individual accuracy doesn't matter that much as long as you're above a certain bar of proficiency. CE's not really got a teamshot-heavy style of play, so it makes no sense to me why no one complained then. 

The difference is summit didnt complain so no one jumped on the bandwagon. And the pc players out aim the controller players on ce tho to be fair in,  they actually came from a halo game this time.  U can ask any of the ce players. Legend, twisted, xorg, etc. they will tell u the colombian pc players have better shots by a decent bit but they just  lack metagame experience so they lose a lot more. 
 

also lethul was seriously considering switching to mnk for snipe after only playing mnk for a month. The issue is that summit is just bad and just found something to make an excuse. 
 

if reach had a multi million dollar scene, we would have seen people play on mouse. Its just the input delay is 5x that of csgo so its not an easily transferable skill. You have to actually build it up. Theres literally 20 years of propaganda that mouse players should/would always beat controller players. Turns out its literally how you tune the game. Enough aim assist, controllers can win. Enough input lag, controllers can win. The best day 1-30 mnk players being able to compete with year 10 controller players seems to suggest to me that... its balanced. 


tho still lower input lag since its no fun.
 

 

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12 hours ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

FUCKING LMAO

Literally meta. Hold ball in green. All the enemy has to look down while your teammates look up so you can literally only target the enemy. The enemy has to look up until they hit the bottom of green before they can aim center and actually compete. Lmao

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The only time I really had fun in MCC was sitting in a lobby using speech to text and then having Microsoft Sam read the chat out loud.

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Controller gives you an undeniable advantage in MCC PC. The amount of tracking is actually insane, that's why its so strong. The game will actively keep your reticle and stick to the enemy once you get it on them with minor adjustments from the player, where as the M/kb player has to do all that shit themselves. 

 

 

I can pretty consistently top the scoreboard using both M/kb and Controller, the difference being when I do it with a controller it requires literally zero effort to do so, it is actually insane. 

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10 hours ago, _Synapse said:

The whole crowd of people saying "I plugged in a controller and started going 20-5" seem to be lying through their teeth. If you get your shit kicked in on KBM and start magically doing several times better on controller, you're either A) Lying  or  B) Playing SWAT  or  C) Have played Halo for years on console, with a controller. Even regardless, controller is not NEARLY that strong, to instantly quadruple your K/D. There's just a general feeling of bitchiness and passive-aggressiveness that comes off people who make these posts.

The lack of raw mouse input is a fucking joke, and makes me not even want to bother trying to use a mouse because it just feels terrible. Especially after going between other FPS games.

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9 hours ago, Riddler said:

Turns out its literally how you tune the game. Enough aim assist, controllers can win. Enough input lag, controllers can win.

This line right here is why I despise having to play against controllers with AA. If Controllers can only win gunfights because of game tuning, then its not the player winning gunfights, its the game. Simple as that.

 

You will never have a balance between M/kb or controller that feels fair at all levels of the game. You balance controller AA for the bottom end of the skill floor, top tier players are going to absolutely wipe the floor, as they'll have both solid mechanical aim + aim assist meant to help the thumbless. You balance it for the top tier players and the average player is never going to land a shot if they decide to use a controller. There is basically no feasible way to balance controller aim assist and still have it actually feel fair for either party.

 

That's why input based MM should be the gold standard for any crossplay title. The only actual solution is to give players the option to never play the other input. That why controller users can opt out against M/kb if they feel it impacts their game and M/kb can opt out against controllers if they feel like it impacts their game.

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