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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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5 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Rebrand the UI and the playlist names 

Rumble Pit - free for all, 8 players, arena maps, slayer 

*Doubles - 2v2, forge maps, slayer 

*Multi Team - 3v3v3v3, forge maps, vehicular gametypes possible, objective and slayer 

Arena - 4v4, arena maps, objective and slayer 

*Squad - 6v6, forge maps, light vehicles, objective and slayer 

Invasion - 9v9, large asymmetric Invasion maps, heavy vehicles, asymmetric spawn abilities, multi-phase attacker/defender objective 

 

*The game would only launch with the Rumble Pit, Arena, and Invasion playlists but three included forge canvases are going to help build three more.  The first community contest is for Doubles maps, the next for Squad, and the third for Multi Team.  While map/gametype testing is underway, players can participate by accessing the Beta playlist.  

 

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5 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I share your frustration, believe me. We have the exact same issue. But your problem is being caused by SBMM. It is not the solution. The game see's your high MMR, and thinks it can balance out the game by putting average-to-above average players on the other team, while scraping the bottom of the barrel for your team. That's why it's so consistent. I have the exact same issue when I solo que, and it's much worse in games with higher populations like Reach and H3, where the game gets to do what it's trying to do more often. I mostly play H1 4's, with a smaller pop, so eventually the game just gives up and gives me whatever is available, and it ends up being more fun.

The solution is to make ranked more attractive to players and drive more traffic into those lists. Rebrand the UI and the playlist names so you stop trying to scare away the playerbase, give higher XP payouts, exclusive unlockables, and the game should just straight up tell you that this is where you're expected to go if you want fair games. Social should be the wild wild west, and be presented that way. "Anybody plays anybody. You want even games consistently? Play ranked. That's what it's there for."

Thank you.

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2 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I share your frustration, believe me. We have the exact same issue. But your problem is being caused by SBMM. It is not the solution. The game see's your high MMR, and thinks it can balance out the game by putting average-to-above average players on the other team, while scraping the bottom of the barrel for your team. That's why it's so consistent. I have the exact same issue when I solo que, and it's much worse in games with higher populations like Reach and H3, where the game gets to do what it's trying to do more often. I mostly play H1 4's, with a smaller pop, so eventually the game just gives up and gives me whatever is available, and it ends up being more fun.

The solution is to make ranked more attractive to players and drive more traffic into those lists. Rebrand the UI and the playlist names so you stop trying to scare away the playerbase, give higher XP payouts, exclusive unlockables, and the game should just straight up tell you that this is where you're expected to go if you want fair games. Social should be the wild wild west, and be presented that way. "Anybody plays anybody. You want even games consistently? Play ranked. That's what it's there for."

The word rank brings fear enough 

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Skulls in multiplayer? :walshy:

If only Eye Patch was the reverse. No bullet magnetism but still sticky aim. Controllers need sticky aim, full stop. Though as much sticky aim as there is in H2? Well...

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Are these new? Pretty sure MP skulls have been in the game ever since that Yapyap the destroyer event.

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1 hour ago, Reamis25 said:

The word rank brings fear enough 

Sometimes I wonder if it would be a good idea to allow people to hide their rank, both from others and from themself. That way they might be able to just enjoy ranked playlists for the tight games, and not have to think about their rank. Maybe it could even be the default setting, and let people that want to see it turn it on. You could make it so you don't see others' ranks unless you click on their name and service record. Maybe even use the phrasing "VS My Skill", and "VS Anyone".

I'm trying to find ideas here. I think it's stupid that so many game's communities go back and forth on whether they want some SBMM in social, and meanwhile their ranked playlists languish and gather dust.  The answer is right there in front of people. It's just a matter of branding it and presenting it in a way that is enticing instead of intimidating.

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10 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Sometimes I wonder if it would be a good idea to allow people to hide their rank, both from others and from themself. That way they might be able to just enjoy ranked playlists for the tight games, and not have to think about their rank. Maybe it could even be the default setting, and let people that want to see it turn it on. You could make it so you don't see others' ranks unless you click on their name and service record. Maybe even use the phrasing "VS My Skill", and "VS Anyone".

I'm trying to find ideas here. I think it's stupid that so many game's communities go back and forth on whether they want some SBMM in social, and meanwhile their ranked playlists languish and gather dust.  The answer is right there in front of people. It's just a matter of branding it and presenting it in a way that is enticing instead of intimidating.

I think it depends on the game. There’s games where it’s ranked playlist flourishes where most games it doesn’t. And honestly this is why MMR was created. So many players don’t like to play ranked because that means they have to try, theirs more toxic players, there’s less of a laid back feeling etc. But now these same people are tired of facing mlg scumpy in mm with his boys who spawn kill them the whole match, but they also don’t want to play ranked, so how do developers give a fair mm experience? And that’s SBMM. And we saw how hiding ranks was viewed in halo 4, it wasn’t a very liked system. This is also why games only have one ranked playlist majority of the time. This is one fault I have with halo. Why do we have so many ranked playlisT? It’s insane. People already barely play ranked in general. I get it, some people like having a 50 or being a champ in TS, swat, snipers etc, but that’s causing long search times in the main comp playlist. I think only team arena, doubles and ffa(8 man since tournaments always use 8) . This is also one fault on halo in my eyes is the ranked playlist don’t mimic the tourney settings. So far every game that has ranked mimics it’s tournament settings. There’s a reason for that. 

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Does anyone have the kill times for reachs guns? Can't find anything about the numbers.

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24 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Does anyone have the kill times for reachs guns? Can't find anything about the numbers.

Is there any specific reason for this knowledge? 

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13 hours ago, Mow said:

Oh, you are decent at the game and want to just chill out and play some Social? Well tough shit, we're gonna match you against people of equal skill and every match is gonna be a sweat fest just like ranked. 

Whilst I 100% agree, I have the exact opposite problem in MCC PC. 95% of the games I play on MCC PC are stomps and I have just stopped playing because of it. I get absolutely zero enjoyment doming BerserkMoose78 15 times and watching them stand still and cross-map AR me. Even my average friends are bored of it because even they stomp.

There needs to be some sort of skill matching so that if you are competent you oppose people that can at the very least move and shoot at the same time. Just the bare minimum. 

Halo 5 did it wrong, it was so restrictive that you have to sweat every single match regardless of the type of game you want to play. Zero skill matchmaking and competent players like me (I'm a bit above average but not much) just steamroll and it is boring as fuck.

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45 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Is there any specific reason for this knowledge? 

Wouldn't you like to know...

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MCC social matching is awful. It's why I've solo-queued maybe 2~ matches of 4v4 in the last 3 months. 

Even if you're mildly competent at the game, you get matched against the sweatiest of sweats. I've got screenshots of loading screens where I have to play 4 sweats on Blackout ARs, with guest teammates. It's not fun. 

The system fucks good players as well bad players, in practice. Good players (on the rare occasion that both teams are matched evenly) have to play on shit maps with shit settings, and bad players more often than not end up matching players far above their skill level and getting absolutely curbstomped. The most common instance is having two teams of bots play each other, with a random competent player sprinkled in. You get games where one player goes +28 and his team still ends up losing. 

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Another important note: Party and skill matching simply don't work correctly. I've ran 3 man parties in 4v4 and there's a very noticeable trend of matching the absolute worst players in the game. 

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Incidentally the SBMM for H5 is at least amusing and sometimes enjoyable for me as a solo player because the population is already kind of small so 90% of my matches always have a familiar gamertag in them. Usually more than one familiar name too. Though 50% of this 90% becomes a contest of seeing who can most quickly kill the thumbless idjit randoms we haven't seen before. I recognize which names are good players and I do my best to nope away from a head on gunfight with them every time. :kappa:

Still, it makes for a fun little rivalry. It reminds me of how you'd see familiar faces in server browsers on other games. You know their antics and style and they know yours.

But I completely know that SBMM in social/casual playlists isn't the way to go. I honestly feel like I improved more as a player in games without SBMM in their social/casual playlists because the number of scenarios I encountered were far higher. With SBMM it's not much of a learning experience to get stomped because the game matches three thumbless dumbasses and me against a team of people who at least understand the game.

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1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

Wouldn't you like to know...

The kill times on weapons in a game from 2010. I can’t see a reason this info benefits me

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2 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Does anyone have the kill times for reachs guns? Can't find anything about the numbers.

DMR is 1.6 secs at max ROF IIRC.

AR is 19sk (if every bullet hits of course, don't remember the kill time).

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28 minutes ago, TI Inspire said:

DMR is 1.6 secs at max ROF IIRC.

AR is 19sk (if every bullet hits of course, don't remember the kill time).

What about the pistol?

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10 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I share your frustration, believe me. We have the exact same issue. But your problem is being caused by SBMM. It is not the solution. The game see's your high MMR, and thinks it can balance out the game by putting average-to-above average players on the other team, while scraping the bottom of the barrel for your team. That's why it's so consistent. I have the exact same issue when I solo que, and it's much worse in games with higher populations like Reach and H3, where the game gets to do what it's trying to do more often. I mostly play H1 4's, with a smaller pop, so eventually the game just gives up and gives me whatever is available, and it ends up being more fun.

The solution is to make ranked more attractive to players and drive more traffic into those lists. Rebrand the UI and the playlist names so you stop trying to scare away the playerbase, give higher XP payouts, exclusive unlockables, and the game should just straight up tell you that this is where you're expected to go if you want fair games. Social should be the wild wild west, and be presented that way. "Anybody plays anybody. You want even games consistently? Play ranked. That's what it's there for."

One of the main issues is that the ranked Reach playlists are generally inactive. If I want to play Reach 4s, it has to be social.

Halo is not an easy game that someone can just pick up and play. Just read reddit comments where someone notes that they're okay at any shooter with the exception of Halo, where they get stomped. With it being difficult to learn, social matchmaking ends up being filled with players who just don't get how the game works.

The crude team balancing MCC employs trys to make up for this, with the understanding that players who get stomped are probably less likely to come back. But of course, for varying reasons, a lot of them have already left, meaning that it becomes more difficult for the matchmaking system to do a decent job, hence the games where I face a team of randoms who all have positive K/Ds, while I get three players with 0.5 K/Ds.

An invisible MMR would result in matchmaking times that are too long, but having seemingly none (even if does skill balance), results in terrible games.

What I'm suggesting is a soft MMR of sorts, where, in acknowledgment of MCC's low population counts, we don't implement a full blown MMR system. But, to reduce the amount of terrible games, we provide the matchmaking system with a set of guidelines that attempts to segment the player base into two distinct halves without significantly extending search times. If there aren't enough players available, then resort to normal matchmaking parameters. However, if given a sizable enough player base, the matchmaking system should attempt to match players in the top 50% with other players in the top 50%, and vice versa for the bottom 50%. As to where a player might be in the top or bottom 50%, I don't think it matters all that much, I just don't think it makes sense to match players who time rockets with players who have never played before.

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11 minutes ago, TI Inspire said:

One of the main issues is that the ranked Reach playlists are generally inactive. If I want to play Reach 4s, it has to be social.

Bingo. So the question becomes, "How can we get players that want games with competent players to use the ranked playlists?"

I agree that social still needs tweaks to get it right, and your suggestion would be nice. It just needs to factor in search times. It should allow 30-60sec to find people in the appropriate skill tiers. After that, just find me something with a decent connection so I can play.  What drives me crazy is when I get insta-matched with or against AR kids. The game clearly didn't even try.

The SBMM in Social Slayer in H3 was spot-on perfect. It even improved my experience in H1 4v4 on MCC. My problem comes from building a high MMR in H1, and then switching games. It retains the MMR from one game's 4v4 (or whatever game size), and applies that to every title. So I'll play with buddies and wreck people in H1 4's, and then try to mix things up and play some H2 or god forbid H3, and I'll consistently match against people that main that game, and be given stuffed animals for teammates.

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Alright so I got around to playing ce multiplayer.

The fucking pistol is aids. Shot a dude 8 times in the fucking head and didn't get the kill. This was fucking 5 away btw.

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Yeah I definitely feel that the pistol's been wonky lately. Was just playing FFA on HEH today, shot a guy like 20 meters away with the pistol and the bullets were curving towards the opposite edge of the reticle. 

It feels like severe anti-aim, except I confirmed that I didn't have host. 

I'm genuinely in awe. How do you manage to fuck up a nearly 20 year old game this badly? Is 343i even capable of making any patches to MCC that restore the games to their original state without breaking something else? 

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This is what happens when you port a game a fuckteenth number of times.

343i needs to consult with Jagex on how to manage spaghetti code. :kappa:

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