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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Maybe CE's biggest problem is that probably >95% of the general Halo community has no clue how to play the game. They play a few games, inevitably get destroyed, and move on to something else without ever learning how to play. The game needs something like a tutorial or a FAQ sheet that actually explains some of the basics. That will never happen though, so it will likely remain the small niche that it is. 

The inconsistency of the MCC experience doesn't help either, but if you actually know the basics a lot of that can be forgiven. 

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Still salty that we never attempted to get a proper H2C event going and skipped straight to reach. Even busted ass MCC H2 is infinitely more exciting to watch then Reach imo. Why skip the game that popularized competitive 4v4 halo to the one that destroyed it? Maybe its a graphics issue or old H2 players have moved on. Always seems strange to me. 

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On 2/17/2020 at 11:11 AM, Arlong said:

If we took a thousand people, and 900 said they enjoy h3, and the 100 CE,(let’s also point out you’d be one of the hundred) so you’re right and they’re wrong? What is a good game to you? To me a good game is something the masses enjoy and continues playing. CE doesn’t and never will get such luxury. Seriously can people stop talking for real. You’ll say stuff like that to try to make you seem smart but you’re not. Yes the masses dictate what’s good or not. You’re probably one of those people that listens to classic or scream’o and then thinks the majority that listens to pop, hip hop, and rap are idiots and have bad taste in music, when the truth is you’re the one with bad taste. 

Ooooof, misgivings like this make me cringe so hard. Most popular almost NEVER equals best. Is Big Bang Theory objectively better than Break Bad simply because it was more popular? Harry Potter better than Lolita or Anna Karenina? How many US residents would argue for American Football over Soccer? Avatar a better movie than Moonlight? Examples abound, but when it comes to mediums similar to games (forms of entertainment) the problems reliant on utilizing popularity is that you base your result around the middle of the bell curve for human intelligence. None of this is to say we cannot each enjoy to different degrees the Big Bangs or Harry Potters of the world, but it is simply foolish to assume they are the peak of their medium as a result of raw numbers.

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1 hour ago, Stoppabl3 said:

Still salty that we never attempted to get a proper H2C event going and skipped straight to reach. Even busted ass MCC H2 is infinitely more exciting to watch then Reach imo. Why skip the game that popularized competitive 4v4 halo to the one that destroyed it? Maybe its a graphics issue or old H2 players have moved on. Always seems strange to me. 

No one at 343 wants to explain what a BXR or Doubleshot is on stream.

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4 hours ago, Stoppabl3 said:

Still salty that we never attempted to get a proper H2C event going and skipped straight to reach. Even busted ass MCC H2 is infinitely more exciting to watch then Reach imo. Why skip the game that popularized competitive 4v4 halo to the one that destroyed it? Maybe its a graphics issue or old H2 players have moved on. Always seems strange to me. 

Most likely a graphics issue. I remember when CE was at that one event so many stopped watching and waited for halo 3 to come back. I’m telling ya now, if CE and h2 MULTIPLAYER got the campaign graphics, these games be so much loved. Lol it probably be easier too id imagine since all you’re doing is adding new textures and skins, giving it a more modern day look, and a multiplayer map is smaller than a campaign map. 

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4 hours ago, II AdamanT II said:

Ooooof, misgivings like this make me cringe so hard. Most popular almost NEVER equals best. Is Big Bang Theory objectively better than Break Bad simply because it was more popular? Harry Potter better than Lolita or Anna Karenina? How many US residents would argue for American Football over Soccer? Avatar a better movie than Moonlight? Examples abound, but when it comes to mediums similar to games (forms of entertainment) the problems reliant on utilizing popularity is that you base your result around the middle of the bell curve for human intelligence. None of this is to say we cannot each enjoy to different degrees the Big Bangs or Harry Potters of the world, but it is simply foolish to assume they are the peak of their medium as a result of raw numbers.

But it’s also foolish to not acknowledge those numbers, to think for a second they’re insignificant is ignorance itself. Also in the gaming worlds case, you want something to be “popular. Lolita, Anna? Wtf are those? Just gonna point out that YES I’m american, and I’ll tell you those aren’t well known here unlike HP. Big Bang theory is hugely popular here, again wtf is moonlight? But overall we need to not pretend your intelligence is something unique or what not. 

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5 hours ago, II AdamanT II said:

Ooooof, misgivings like this make me cringe so hard. Most popular almost NEVER equals best. Is Big Bang Theory objectively better than Break Bad simply because it was more popular? Harry Potter better than Lolita or Anna Karenina? How many US residents would argue for American Football over Soccer? Avatar a better movie than Moonlight? Examples abound, but when it comes to mediums similar to games (forms of entertainment) the problems reliant on utilizing popularity is that you base your result around the middle of the bell curve for human intelligence. None of this is to say we cannot each enjoy to different degrees the Big Bangs or Harry Potters of the world, but it is simply foolish to assume they are the peak of their medium as a result of raw numbers.

Man, I was thinking "does big bang really have that kind of viewership?"
Almost 30 million for the final episode, 10 million for Breaking Bad.

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1 hour ago, Arlong said:

Most likely a graphics issue. I remember when CE was at that one event so many stopped watching and waited for halo 3 to come back. I’m telling ya now, if CE and h2 MULTIPLAYER got the campaign graphics, these games be so much loved. Lol it probably be easier too id imagine since all you’re doing is adding new textures and skins, giving it a more modern day look, and a multiplayer map is smaller than a campaign map. 

Dude people were complaining that ce had a better stream that event lmao. 

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Yeah I mean Halo is totally irrelevant to mainstream gaming until a new game comes out and has been like that for a decade. Its just some average series with AAA backing that people buy and abandon in 4 months. The days of Halo being some kind of premier or popular series for gaming have been over and we're just out here in a bubble where a lot of us want to believe otherwise. Obviously it'll be special to a lot of us but if we're talking gaming in general nobody gives a shit about this series.

All of those kids growing up playing games that are 19 or under weren't even 10 the last time we had a good Halo and there's A LOT of them. Time has been slipping away. I was about to turn 11 when I started playing CE on release almost 17 when H3 dropped. We've had so many games that aren't good in a row that they have missed a whole different generation of kids gaming. They just didn't get a Halo worth playing 

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It would really do almost everyone good to stop caring about this kind of thing, no matter who they are and where they are and what it's about. That is to say: stop caring what other people think (says the dude rambling because he's caring about what you think atm). Unless you legitimately derive more enjoyment from Halo via proxy - involving yourself in every way except just playing the game - it's wasted brain cells to care about Twitch rankings or tournament views or what have you. An activity like this isn't some huge sorted affair like an organized sport is. With little effort you can get set up to play the game. It's usually as easy as just going to a playlist, and does it honestly matter how many people are even in matchmaking so long as you can get match arranged in a timely matter? People were making due with Xbox Connect before MCC, even. That wasn't as seamless, sure, but never has it been hard to enjoy Halo firsthand.

Look, lads, I'd be as tickled as the next guy to see Halo be the king of eSports and FPSs again - and in a form I find to be great as well (H2 and H3 isnt that, chief). It is fun to watch huge tournaments or see pro gameplay streamed direct from said pros, but I have the most fun actually playing the thing.

And, for all its flaws, at least MCC is still a thing. You could be like me and have your all-time favorites be practically impossible to ever enjoy again. The servers for SOCOM are long gone and no one's LAN tunneling. Destiny 1 Year 1 PvP is in no way shape or form able to played at all now.

You do you, I guess. But I'll be off pistol whipping kids in H5 and not giving a shit less if the eight players in my game are the only eight people playing the game at all.

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Where the hell did I read that ce's magnetism is stronger at the edges of the reticle than inside it? I swear I saw that somewhere. Like, the optimal hold for headshots is 6 o'clock or something like that.

Did I make this up or is this real?

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11 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

Where the hell did I read that ce's magnetism is stronger at the edges of the reticle than inside it? I swear I saw that somewhere. Like, the optimal hold for headshots is 6 o'clock or something like that.

Did I make this up or is this real?

No I've said that many times. Que'd up.

 

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3 hours ago, Riddler said:

Dude people were complaining that ce had a better stream that event lmao. 

Delusional. Dude no one was watching that event. Most came back when h3 was on again. 

@Faeyrin it’s not finding games is the problem, it’s the fact the games population is so low that we continuously match the same damn people 24/7. Ranked match making is slow or unplayable certain times a day, oh and systems like party match making now become obsolete since the low population can’t handle that.

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1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

Where the hell did I read that ce's magnetism is stronger at the edges of the reticle than inside it? I swear I saw that somewhere. Like, the optimal hold for headshots is 6 o'clock or something like that.

Did I make this up or is this real?

Part of it is that CE's magnetism scales with distance. There's effectively zero on the pistol at close range, while out long it actually gets pretty heavy.

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1 hour ago, Faeyrin said:

It would really do almost everyone to stop caring about this kind of thing, no matter who they are and where they are and what it's about. That is to say: stop caring what other people think (says the dude rambling because he's caring about what you think atm). Unless you legitimately derive more enjoyment from Halo via proxy - involving yourself in every way except just playing the game - it's wasted brain cells to care about Twitch rankings or tournament views or what have you. An activity like this isn't some huge sorted affair like an organized sport is. With little effort you can get set up to play the game. It's usually as easy as just going to a playlist, and does it honestly matter how many people are even in matchmaking so long as you can get match arranged in a timely matter? People were making due with Xbox Connect before MCC, even. That wasn't as seamless, sure, but never has it been hard to enjoy Halo firsthand.

Look, lads, I'd be as tickled as the next guy to see Halo be the king of eSports and FPSs again - and in a form I find to be great as well (H2 and H3 isnt that, chief). It is fun to watch huge tournaments or see pro gameplay streamed direct from said pros, but I have the most fun actually playing the thing.

And, for all its flaws, at least MCC is still a thing. You could be like me and have your all-time favorites be practically impossible to ever enjoy again. The servers for SOCOM are long gone and no one's LAN tunneling. Destiny 1 Year 1 PvP is in no way shape or form able to played at all now.

You do you, I guess. But I'll be off pistol whipping kids in H5 and not giving a shit less if the eight players in my game are the only eight people playing the game at all.

It may be wasted brain cells to gripe about it, but it's still of heavy remark that it did not have to go down like this. Halo could still be a top dog in the gaming world, if not for...a couple dozen boneheaded design choices.

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52 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Delusional. Dude no one was watching that event. Most came back when h3 was on again. 

@Faeyrin it’s not finding games is the problem, it’s the fact the games population is so low that we continuously match the same damn people 24/7. Ranked match making is slow or unplayable certain times a day, oh and systems like party match making now become obsolete since the low population can’t handle that.

You're both right. Your points aren't even mutually exclusive. St Louis viewership was low, but it got really good feedback from the H3 viewers stopping by bc their stream had so much downtime and technical issues. Skillshot did an awesome job with it. AGL Brad actually ended up doing something good for Halo after all.

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16 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

You're both right. Your points aren't even mutually exclusive. St Louis viewership was low, but it got really good feedback from the H3 viewers stopping by bc their stream had so much downtime and technical issues. Skillshot did an awesome job with it. AGL Brad actually ended up doing something good for Halo after all.

Still it still had less views even if the stream itself was ran better. I guess the main problem is just that CE looks bland, it has not aged well. H3 interestedly enough still looks beautiful. 

onwards to more important matters. Let’s look at why party matching failed for social 4v4. 
1. Matching the same people over and over again.

2. Slow match making.

games with high populations are able to afford to have more strict mm. Halo McC has skill based mm in social buts so bad and prioritizes quick mm, it might as well not even exist. H5 so far does a pretty good of giving me matches against similar skilled opponents, where relaxing is sort of hard. But that shows a system doing its job. I’m a skilled player at halo, and for someone like me to match a guy whose got a skill level of someone who belongs in gold is utterly ridiculous. That’s my average match in McC, pub stomping. I’d play ranked if I could get matches without waiting 10+ minutes after I get past level 20. 
 

Most of us say we’d prefer a quality match but deep down we don’t, since the moment 10+ minute wait times start happening, we care more about quantity. In video games we prefer a buffet than a medium rare steak( if you’re vegan then idk vegan spaghetti) 

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Honestly, halo 3 does still hold up. It's only rough in a few places.

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I get it though, I do. An ideal game would have instant matchmaking. Back in the day our games did have that boon. Couldn't take a leak without getting into a lobby...and then you miss the chance to veto god damn ARs on Snowbound. :wutface:Time is a crazy subjective thing though. When I was trying out Destiny 2 PvP (jfc it's so bad compared to Destiny 1 Year 1) I never minded the long load times between matches because it gave me a chance to do a couple things. Shoot off a message or two on a forum, talk to the family, what have you. I guess we're all adults now though and don't have much free time as is. Is all of the blame fairly laid at the feet of 343i though, for the wait times? As far as I know and have experienced myself, the proper core gameplay loop for each title in MCC is now intact -- for the casual player at least. Which is the majority demographic for just about any game ever. On top of this, H1 through H4 are included in Game Pass. Many people have easy access to mostly-faithful ports of our games, but still yet they don't play. It seems that Halo as a whole, not just 343i developed titles, has fallen out of vogue within the larger gaming community.

I'll never be a 343i apologist. I myself had to come to grips with the sentiment I expressed in my last post. I was legitimately planning to aim for pro in H4, but its state at launch was so abysmal that MLG dropped it. That really, really, really burned me. I was good and nothing would've been cooler to younger me than being a pro gamer. I suppose I would've been outside of the 'almost everyone' demographic I spoke of, when it came to not caring what other people thought. And I know I don't need to go into how immeasurable my disappointment was when MCC launched.

But the gaming landscape has changed dramatically from the design philosophies that were employed when the original trilogy was developed by Bungie. What is vogue these days is, basically, Skinner Boxes. Carrots on sticks. Something to chase -- besides a victory and good performance in a match. It's not enough these days to merely create a satisfying core gameplay loop. Gamers want their next dopamine hit and now here in 2020 they've been conditioned to expect that hit extremely often and in varying levels. Cosmetic unlocks, excessive accolades acting as pats on the back, what have you. You know the drill, you've seen it for almost a decade by now. Bungie themselves actually got in on this psychological manipulation even in Reach with all of the cosmetic armors. They were one of the first to do this in the shooter genre landscape, right behind CoD developers (as far as i know anyways, i've always been a picky gamer). Thank god it was only cosmetic. This may be why Reach is now viewed so favorably by casual players and was highly anticipated for MCC - it had significant psychological manipulation done in a relatively benign fashion. Casuals have a lot of feel good memories attached to the game. It's also why people are so pissed at the current unlock system it has in MCC; it's not as potent of dopamine trigger because you don't get to choose what you unlock. Also why H5 maintains a stable enough population to provide timely matchmaking - the carrot on the stick is practically ever present. In a pretty shitty way, too. I'm glad I haven't fell for this psychological manipulation and acquire plenty of fun from the core gameplay loop. Did you know that studios hire psychologists for the sole purpose of designing addictive systems? But I'm rambling now.

I think it might be fair to say now that even if all the games had been ported perfectly, they'd still not be that popular these days. It's just not enough. Your average gamer is likely addicted to being addicted by now. Even if 'addiction' may be too strong of word, none of the MCC gives the standard casual enough dopamine hits to win them over other games.

There's literally nothing anyone can do about this, except do their best to have fun with the others who haven't fallen for the bullshit of modern gaming. The only thing that could provide half a possibility of classic Halo returning to even half of its popularity is 343i somehow adding in new content to these games in the form of unlocks. But I know enough of how the Blam! engine works to know the chances of this are astronomically low. It's virtually impossible to change anything about a map in H1-H3 without necessitating a complete redownload of said map. And of course every map would need the new content added, which would mean redownloading the entire multiplayer for every content update.

 

I guess this was all a lot of minced words to say: Halo as we all loved it will never be king again. Maybe, just maybe, 343i can pull a rabbit out of a hat and make Infinite jive with all demographics, but it's going to come with caveats. It has to - for Microsoft's own bottom line. If the gimmicks aren't there, the population won't last. The cash flow won't be there. Developing a completely new engine is extremely expensive in all regards. There's going to be MTX in some fashion in order to make up for costs. Mark my words. Pure Halo is still here, technically. It's not bygone like my sweet sweet SOCOM is (did you know that Kevin Franklin was also a designer for the H4 of the SOCOM series? i don't like your face, Kevin). But it'll never be in vogue again.

The sooner us Oldguard accept this fact, the sooner we can reclaim what fun there is to reclaim, and stop being bitter that the past is gone. The past is always gone anyways. It would be extremely refreshing to see discussions on here about the latest super fun custom gametype, or posts bragging over who beat who in a scrimmage. I mean, damn, have you guys seen the quality of Forge maps lately in H5? Mythic Rumble has some really unique maps. (i know this is the MCC thread, shove off)

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MTX aren’t a problem as long as they’re cosmetic only. Gamers these days seem to forget that game companies are a business, so if you want Free DLC, patches, etc then they need money. Heck’s gamers talk all the time of games “rEmEber WHen gAmes released with everything” oh please stfu. Those were either SP games, or they had no considerable multiplayer. In the 360/ps3 days every game had DLC, which just split populations in games or in most cases made those dlc maps never show up in mm since the majority population refuse to buy them(mostly because the total in dlc in your average game equaled up to 50-60$ oh and it doesn’t even guarantee that the new maps are good). 
gamers are different in the sense they want some reward for playing the game. This why a progression system is necessary, although not one like 343s sorry but a system that rewards you the same xp as a guy who literally doesn’t play is a flawed system, a set Xp per match also is a flawed system.

faithful ports? These ports are ran by 3rd party developers, I say to this to people who think voting for 3rd party in the election, “but it doesn’t mean shit!” A 3rd party developer won’t be able to bring about updates, content etc the way a triple A dev is known for. 
ALSO halo 1-2 look like shitty games that most definitely haven’t aged well. H3 on the other hand isn’t really on pc. Halo online has no updates, no mm, nothing that’s good for community building, and it’s D/L isn’t on the main web page for it, so no wonder that game never got to pop off(thanks M$ greedy bastards, motherfuckers weren’t even making money off the game but the moment that population hit 15-20k M$ was like “hold up wait a minute”) 

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Look I would of respected Microsoft’s protecting IP excuse if halo online Devs were making money off them, but they WERENT! The reason M$ is accepting projects like installation 01 is because they know several things. 1. The game won’t come out in ever. 2. It being a 3rd party game it won’t last. 
There’s a reason people go from the latest cod to the next, DEVELOPMENT. An old game won’t get the content updates you’re used too, since the developers moved on. So what do you do? You go to the next game in the series since you don’t want to be left behind the masses. Many people consider black ops 2 or MW2 the best cods ever, but as we all know it’s nothing but a hack fest with no monitoring by the Devs or M$,Sony, etc. it’s also why many people always ask for REMASTERS. It’s because games are failing to bring that SPARK, so we now need some nostalgia. H3 a game that to this day is amazingly fun to play, a game people would of loved to get a remaster. Although some tweaks to spread or projectile speed could maybe help the hit reg idk, I’m no developer. 
 

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Sometimes I turn my OG Xbox on to hear the boot sound.

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Anybody who says either of those games are the best cod has no class.

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9 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Anybody who says either of those games are the best cod has no class.

Then the majority have no class, but those are the cod’s people have the best memories towards. BO2 definitely holds a special place in my heart, and I’d love a remaster one day. 

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