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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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I see we're still entertaining the idea that H5's shit aiming is the result of connection and deadzone/accel settings. That's cute.

All we're missing is "hardware limitations, it'll get fixed on the XB1X".

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7 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I see we're still entertaining the idea that H5's shit aiming is the result of connection and deadzone/accel settings. That's cute.

All we're missing is "hardware limitations, it'll get fixed on the XB1X".

No the fact is connection was one of those, there were other things but connection was confirmed to be one.

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21 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Every Halo up to Reach didn’t have proper diagonal senses, so, no it didn’t work fine. We just tolerated it without standards being set given these are early console shooters. Prime shit for that being CE’s apparently native 20% dead zone when you can’t even go that high in most modern console games with dead zone settings. Accel is the least of my concerns with 1-3. Not being able to accurately trace a target at an angle that isn’t a straight line is, however. Hence what the patch did and why I even brought it up. 

I also highly doubt you get roasted by heavy aim. I’m farther than you are from any proper data center (assuming this causes it) and I can maybe count heavy aim occurrences on one hand. That’s being generous. And I literally play a crackhead sense that would make it more noticeable than people playing on 3, lol. What’re you playing on. And what’re your dead zone settings.

I’m not one for appeals to popularity but this is literally why the MCC patch happened. A ton of people bitched about CE to 3’s aiming compared to 4/2A. To where a patch not even intended to exist was formed for it. Fixing the very thing I’d spoken about years before. I don’t think I’m crazy to have complained, especially in hindsight when my problem got patched.

But the diagonal issue you’re talking about wasn’t a super big deal. It wasn’t game breaking like h5 heavy aim was

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1 minute ago, Arlong said:

No the fact is connection was one of those, there were other things but connection was confirmed to be one.

By whom and where?

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6 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

By whom and where?

I remember 343 mentioning that the servers could be a part of the heavy aim and they couldn’t fix that. 

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I remember 343 being full of shit.

Someone who might know the precise innards of an Xbox might be able to correct me on this one, but a controller on a dedicated piece of hardware like the Xbox more than likely has an IRQ associated with it (and probably the highest priority at that, to reduce latency), which means that when the controller tells the CPU to do something, the CPU stops what it's doing and processes that input.

It makes LESS THAN NO SENSE that connection quality would impact aiming on a locally-processed game. Cloud streaming? Totally. Local? No.

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

But the diagonal issue you’re talking about wasn’t a super big deal. It wasn’t game breaking like h5 heavy aim was

You couldn’t properly or accurately aim trace someone jumping or moving at a diagonal angle. Your settings would not allow it, properly. That’s huge. Because it’s literal coded imprecision in a game requiring precision.

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1 hour ago, Basu said:

Appreciate the detailed reponse. The thing is though that 343 tried multiple times to "fix" the aiming and failed. They never said it was a design decision aside from Ghost's "squirelly" copypasta. Sounds more like a bug than a feature to me, but maybe you're right and it's working as intended and they once again lied about it.

Which is the absolute dumbest thing to me, and I agree with you 100%. They spent time redesigning the redesign to fix the complaints that arose meanwhile, they release the PC version of Halo 5 where the controller aiming was fantastic and the mousing was terrible because of the weird acceleration curves that they used with the controller on console. Like I never understood the logic behind changing it for the sake of change when there were soooo many other aspects of the game that needed to be tweaked. Like Spartan Charge that stuns you for and these nuclear grenades the bounce you off the ground and prevent you from moving. The game's design choices made absolutely zero sense to me from a Halo MP perspective and I stand by that statement to this very day. It just felt like they were trying to balance out the movement by messing with the aiming, which made no sense because you just balance out the movement.

 

1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

At this point I reeeaalllly wouldn't put it past 343 to have accidentally deleted an entire commit branch.

Lol the good ol' NASA excuse 

maxresdefault.jpg

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Didn't it get "confirmed" at some point that pressing start was in fact NOT a placebo and did help mitigate heavy aim? Think it was Contra that claimed it originally then tweeted about it after talking to some 343 employees or something. 

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46 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

Didn't it get "confirmed" at some point that pressing start was in fact NOT a placebo and did help mitigate heavy aim? Think it was Contra that claimed it originally then tweeted about it after talking to some 343 employees or something. 

I don't see how that's possible considering nobody has actually quantified H5's aiming problems yet, so how would you even test it in a non-biased way?

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11 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I don't see how that's possible considering nobody has actually quantified H5's aiming problems yet, so how would you even test it in a non-biased way?

Just remembered it being talked about based off something someone claimed 343 said. Obviously it's a he-said-she-said situation so I could be 100% wrong, but I remember it happening

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Just now, OG Nick said:

Just remembered it being talked about based off something someone claimed 343 said. Obviously it's a he-said-she-said situation so I could be 100% wrong, but I remember it happening

I will once again comment that it's hilarious this is the best we can conceivably think of with respect to the developer's acknowledgment of the issue - vaguely possibly remembering hearing about something relating to the matter.

What a wonder why Halo is where it is.

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1 minute ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I will once again comment that it's hilarious this is the best we can conceivably think of with respect to the developer's acknowledgment of the issue - vaguely possibly remembering hearing about something relating to the matter.

What a wonder why Halo is where it is.

Dev transparency is non-existent on things that actually matter

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Well, GarishGoblin did the HCE legendary under 1:10:00...didnt know where to post it but it doesnt matter, this should be in every thread.

 

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20 hours ago, -DeucEy- said:

Let me start off by saying I hate everything about Halo 5. I hate playing that game, I haven't played in almost 3 years.

With that out of the way, if we're talking strictly development - I would HEAVILY disagree. The difference in programming was EXTREMELY noticeable for Halo 5 vs MCC (in which MCC had an astronomical ass ton of issues haha). The UI design and functionality worked just fine. I literally have no idea what you're even talking about with the Halo 5 UI being a complete mess. I've seen like maybe three for four serious bugs come across my timeline in reference to UI. Simply not liking it is not bad programming. Can you be more specific?

Networking.. Um.. Last time I checked, MCC was the one with the network issues. There's lag sometimes but a vast majority of the games most players on Xbox live experienced were pretty good. Again, not sure what you're talking about here.

Forge, I'm actually surprised you said this because Forge was my main example of their programming ability. Do you understand how absurdly complicated it had to have been to design Halo 5's forge?? Think about all the features, all the functionality, all the different type of forge options you can include in almost every aspect... That's some SOLID development. Ever since Forge released in Halo 3, I've never given a care in the world about it but Halo 5's Forge was a work of beauty. Yes, there are instances of maps that cause frame rate drops, yes. This more than likely had to do with the amount rendered vs Level-of-Detail that is currently being generated in relation to the Xbox's CPU/GPU. However not every map is like that.

Can you elaborate a little more than just the blanket statement of "a complete mess"? Because Halo 5's development was pretty solid for the most part. And that's from the perspective of someone who hates the hell out of that game lol. A couple of bugs here and there is not "a complete mess" that's just what happens unfortunately.

The UI bugs you listed here are pretty much the main 2-3 I saw coming across my timeline that I just mentioned previously; I don't know about 20 seconds though. A bit exaggerated to be honest, it was like 1-2 seconds where it would skip lol. But the REQ store being a cash cow is something I didn't like about the game either but that's not a programming flaw, that's just a crappy design decision in which the two aren't related.

If we're going to talk about games crashing, let's not pretend that every game we've ever played doesn't have issues haha. Halo 3 on Xbox 360 used to crash a lot as well, but you never hear about that games development being complete ass.

I have no experience in back-end programming, but why is MCC the bar you are setting Halo 5 up against. 
Everyone knows how bad it is and its not doing anything to tell me Halo 5 is good. Its just saying its not complete trash. 
As far as actual bugs go, these are the ones I experiences when recently playing again after a good 6+ months of not playing.

  • Spectator and Theater still don't work. There are vast differences between doing something like Xbox DVR and what spectator/theater show. I get that its an amalgamation of everyone's "view", but no other Halo that has theater had this big of a discrepancy. 
  • I can enter searching into a playlist, be glitched into another menu with no way of stopping the search other than quitting the build. This happened at least 3 times in the 20 games I probably played. 
  • The REQ glitch of not being able to sell an item upon opening the pack, everyone should be super familiar with this.

I have no qualms with Forge or Networking.

This isn't a bug, but the menus are trash. We have loading screens just to go from one menu to another. Why? This should be the fastest functioning part of the game. The REQ menus are atrocious. I stopped spending time even looking for helmets/armor just because of how that menu is setup. Just having a filter between the different rarities would wonders for that menu system. Not to mention the gross amount of duplicate helmets with slight variations. Just have a base permutation with the expanding options after you select it.

I also don't remember Halo 3 really crashing at all. However its been a good 10+ years since I've been actively playing it, but it was never something that I remember. It could be that Halo 5 is just recent, but its sat on my mind a lot more than any other Halo title 4+ years after its release. 

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6 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I see we're still entertaining the idea that H5's shit aiming is the result of connection and deadzone/accel settings. That's cute.

All we're missing is "hardware limitations, it'll get fixed on the XB1X".

It was literally the testers/proteam, do ppl forget ghosts description of the new aiming?

 

" At first, it's going to be tough, but it will get much better with practice." -Ghost

HAHAHa

I'm guessing they tried mimicking Halo 3's trashy aim and fucked up. H3 is wonky as fuck compared to h2 or CE or even Reach.

 

actually funny enough reading it now it seems like the aiming issues were inconsistent EVEN IN TESTING GUYS "There were some days where our entire team despised it, other days where our team had a split-decision, and finally one day where we all felt extremely comfortable with it."

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

 

 

Not saying it didn’t happen. I just don’t remember it or remember it being prevalent in the game. Though I fully accept my experiences don’t represent everyone else’s. 

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6 minutes ago, znot said:

I'm guessing they tried mimicking Halo 3's trashy aim and fucked up. H3 is wonky as fuck compared to h2 or CE or even Reach.

Until I die or someone fully fesses up, this theory is canon.

6 minutes ago, Nokt said:

Not saying it didn’t happen. I just don’t remember it or remember it being prevalent in the game. Though I fully accept my experiences don’t represent everyone else’s. 

I more so posted it just to reminisce about the hilarity of it all.

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49 minutes ago, Nokt said:

I have no experience in back-end programming, but why is MCC the bar you are setting Halo 5 up against. 
Everyone knows how bad it is and its not doing anything to tell me Halo 5 is good. Its just saying its not complete trash. 
As far as actual bugs go, these are the ones I experiences when recently playing again after a good 6+ months of not playing.

  • Spectator and Theater still don't work. There are vast differences between doing something like Xbox DVR and what spectator/theater show. I get that its an amalgamation of everyone's "view", but no other Halo that has theater had this big of a discrepancy. 
  • I can enter searching into a playlist, be glitched into another menu with no way of stopping the search other than quitting the build. This happened at least 3 times in the 20 games I probably played. 
  • The REQ glitch of not being able to sell an item upon opening the pack, everyone should be super familiar with this.

I have no qualms with Forge or Networking.

This isn't a bug, but the menus are trash. We have loading screens just to go from one menu to another. Why? This should be the fastest functioning part of the game. The REQ menus are atrocious. I stopped spending time even looking for helmets/armor just because of how that menu is setup. Just having a filter between the different rarities would wonders for that menu system. Not to mention the gross amount of duplicate helmets with slight variations. Just have a base permutation with the expanding options after you select it.

I also don't remember Halo 3 really crashing at all. However its been a good 10+ years since I've been actively playing it, but it was never something that I remember. It could be that Halo 5 is just recent, but its sat on my mind a lot more than any other Halo title 4+ years after its release. 

Why wouldn't MCC be the bar I'm setting? It's the last game 343 has released. Not sure what you're really trying to infer by saying "it's not doing anything to tell me Halo 5 is good" when that wasn't a claim that I made in any facet. You're speaking to someone who also thinks the game is bad.

  • And okay great, you noted that there are still some outstanding issues. You make it seem as if I said the game had zero bugs whatsoever and the game was perfect. I'm pretty sure I can dig up several posts on TeamBeyond specifically (not to mention when this was known as TheHaloCouncil and before that the mlgpro.com forums) of me reiterating how I hate the fact that theater mode isn't what it used to be compared to something back in 2007. But you also didn't see me singing high praises about the theater mode either.
  • I think the menu search glitch happened to me a couple times as well. Definitely a stupid bug.
  • I'll be honest I have no idea what REQ glitch you're referring to but I'll take your word for it and say it happens.

I could sit here and go back and forth about the critiques of the game and the menu and majority of them I agree with, but I feel like you made this entire post just to explain to me that you think Halo 5 is awful and you don't like how it functions; like your points about the helmets and how they look alike and all that... That's perfectly acceptable. But none of that was my point though. My main point was that it's easy to nitpick on the bugs that annoy you whilst ignoring the 10,000 other functions that work amazingly. I was just giving my perspective on the fact that despite hating this wack ass game (lol) that I can appreciate/respect the amount of development that went into it because it's NOT as simple as people like to make it sound.

17 minutes ago, Nokt said:

Not saying it didn’t happen. I just don’t remember it or remember it being prevalent in the game. Though I fully accept my experiences don’t represent everyone else’s. 

And this is really the crux of the issue because even with the slight bugs here and there not everyone experienced the same issues and some of the issues didn't happen all the time, it happened like a few times here and there and it's just something that needs to be addressed. It's not stopping you from playing the game, it's just little annoyances.

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Halo 5's aiming had something to do with dynamic resolution didn't it? The beta was locked at 720p so it didn't change.

Titanfall 2 doesn't have this problem though (on Xbox)

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2 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Halo 5's aiming had something to do with dynamic resolution didn't it? The beta was locked at 720p so it didn't change.

Titanfall 2 doesn't have this problem though (on Xbox)

If that was true, it would've been fixed on the better model XB1s. It wasn't.

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9 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

At this point I reeeaalllly wouldn't put it past 343 to have accidentally deleted an entire commit branch.

I'm just gonna go ahead and say that H3's and H5's aiming feel exactly the same to me, and that's the singular reason I stopped playing both games.

3 never bothered me but 5s eventually did when I went back to it after a while. I never felt that with 3. I'm well aware it has bad aiming, I just never felt it.

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3 hours ago, -DeucEy- said:

Why wouldn't MCC be the bar I'm setting? It's the last game 343 has released. Not sure what you're really trying to infer by saying "it's not doing anything to tell me Halo 5 is good" when that wasn't a claim that I made in any facet. You're speaking to someone who also thinks the game is bad.

  • And okay great, you noted that there are still some outstanding issues. You make it seem as if I said the game had zero bugs whatsoever and the game was perfect. I'm pretty sure I can dig up several posts on TeamBeyond specifically (not to mention when this was known as TheHaloCouncil and before that the mlgpro.com forums) of me reiterating how I hate the fact that theater mode isn't what it used to be compared to something back in 2007. But you also didn't see me singing high praises about the theater mode either.
  • I think the menu search glitch happened to me a couple times as well. Definitely a stupid bug.
  • I'll be honest I have no idea what REQ glitch you're referring to but I'll take your word for it and say it happens.

I could sit here and go back and forth about the critiques of the game and the menu and majority of them I agree with, but I feel like you made this entire post just to explain to me that you think Halo 5 is awful and you don't like how it functions; like your points about the helmets and how they look alike and all that... That's perfectly acceptable. But none of that was my point though. My main point was that it's easy to nitpick on the bugs that annoy you whilst ignoring the 10,000 other functions that work amazingly. I was just giving my perspective on the fact that despite hating this wack ass game (lol) that I can appreciate/respect the amount of development that went into it because it's NOT as simple as people like to make it sound.

And this is really the crux of the issue because even with the slight bugs here and there not everyone experienced the same issues and some of the issues didn't happen all the time, it happened like a few times here and there and it's just something that needs to be addressed. It's not stopping you from playing the game, it's just little annoyances.

I guess comparing Halo 5 to MCC is a good way to show that Halo 5 isn't a complete mess like HeX was saying, but comparing it to MCC only shows me that its above the bare minimum of whats required to "work fine". Comparing it directly to a competitor in the FPS genre or even Halo from a different developer, Bungie, shows a slightly different story.

I'll admit I came off on the wrong angle with this one. A lot of things do work well within Halo 5 and programming isn't easy. There isn't a long standing list of bugs that I can think of off the top of my head. I do think that we shouldn't overlook the bad just because a lot basic functionality that every game has works like it should. The issues I listed are jarring experiences for the end user and the biggest issue I have with them is that they've persisted since launch.

Think about trying to grow an e-sports community and not having a competent spectator mode. How long is a user going to watch the stream when all the shots don't even look like they connect? How many times is a user going to dig through 3 menus just to sell some REQs to get that little extra credit towards a new one? How many times are you going to quit the build before you just go play a different game that doesn't have a menu glitch that forces you to quit? Even the opinionated things I listed, who wants to dig through a crappy armor menu before they just stop?

I'll admit Halo 3 is probably my least played Halo along with Reach. Its hard for me to find evidence supporting something like the video Lemon posted or even remember events like that happening, but I can find evidence supporting the bugs I listed for Halo 5 pretty easily.

In the end though, you are right. Halo 5 isn't a complete a mess, its not even that bad with the issues I listed. I just think it has a lot of room for growth.

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