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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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You should pick up other weapons because they're different, not because they're flat out better.

If a weapon isn’t better than my spawn weapon in some way, why would I pick it up?  For funsies?

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5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

If a weapon isn’t better than my spawn weapon is some way, why would I pick it up?  For funsies?

Because it's different. The real question is if there's better weapons on the map, why WOULDN'T you pick them up? 

 

One offers choice, decisions, doesn't undermine the skill, and doesn't snowball. The other does. 

 

Check out Halo CE, Quake, Gears of War, or UT. 

 

Edit: crazy how far games have fallen where people can't fathom the idea of a weapon thats just, different. 

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1 minute ago, MultiLockOn said:

Check out Halo CE

Name a weapon in CE that doesn’t offer some advantage over the pistol.  

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

Name a weapon in CE that doesn’t offer some advantage over the pistol.  

? That's my point? They're not straight up better than the pistol, they're different than the pistol. The shotgun is better up close and worse far away. I'm confused what you're getting at. 

 

 

 

Seriously watch that and see how often he changes weapons. There's some redundancy between the lightning gun and machine gun but that's about it.  they're just different  

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10 hours ago, Shekkles said:

I specifically said unironically posting or asking for stats gets a weeks ban and within three days of me taking a break from here someone drops stats lol.

Edit: Yeah there goes a page of reactionary posts. 

Halo is pretty dead right now guys, so unless it gets really stupid in here it's pretty loose.

clearly ur insecure about ur stats u bk if u ban ppl for asking about them. lolololololol!!!!11!

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13 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

? That's my point? They're not straight up better than the pistol, they're different than the pistol. The shotgun is better up close and worse far away. I'm confused what you're getting at. 

 

 

 

Seriously watch that and see how often he changes weapons. There's some redundancy between the lightning gun and machine gun but that's about it.  they're just different  

Dude this is seriously what I’ve been fucking talking about. There’s a good reason to have those other utility weapons on the map because it offers something different, variety whatever.

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16 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Dude this is seriously what I’ve been fucking talking about. There’s a good reason to have those other utility weapons on the map because it offers something different, variety whatever.

Okay it sounds like you're agreeing with me but then you use the words "utility weapon" and I have no idea what you're trying to say. That quake video is cool because the weapons are all different and have different strengths so they all get used. They aren't clones that are just better or worse. 

 

Halo 5 is just a bunch of clones where some are better and some are worse. That's not variety, there are no decisions being made, no choice offered. Thus half the weapons don't have purpose. The ONLY reason to use the magnum is because you spawn with it. If you come across any of the other rifles you drop the magnum, it basically IS useless in the sandbox beyond spawning with it. All the rifles do the sane thing. The boltshot in h5 is just the magnum but easy? I seriously don't know why that weapon exists. Delete the supressor. Storm rifle and smg why? On top of the AR? All these weapons are the same thing

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How can multiple precision weapons be made unique?  

-ability to damage vehicle occupants through the vehicle’s armor 

-ability to create a supercombine explosion big enough to damage players near the target 

-ability to alt fire a projectile that can drag down an impacted vehicle 

-ability to perform combos that decrease the standard killtime 

-ability to damage health through shields 

-ability to concentrate multiple unscoped shots into higher damage scoped shots 

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35 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Okay it sounds like you're agreeing with me but then you use the words "utility weapon" and I have no idea what you're trying to say. That quake video is cool because the weapons are all different and have different strengths so they all get used. They aren't clones that are just better or worse. 

 

Halo 5 is just a bunch of clones where some are better and some are worse. That's not variety, there are no decisions being made, no choice offered. Thus half the weapons don't have purpose. The ONLY reason to use the magnum is because you spawn with it. If you come across any of the other rifles you drop the magnum, it basically IS useless in the sandbox beyond spawning with it. All the rifles do the sane thing. The boltshot in h5 is just the magnum but easy? I seriously don't know why that weapon exists. Delete the supressor. Storm rifle and smg why? On top of the AR? All these weapons are the same thing

I didn’t watch the video. 
Ok what’s your solution buddy? Before giving one let’s take into account what the masses want. They want a sandbox that offers variety in the sense they aren’t wrong for not using the starting weapons. Most of the time other weapons are just that WEAK compared to them. 2nd when offering a solution the weapons have to be kill effective. 3rd , think about this game not as a quake clone and that this is halo, two games that play quite differently in every aspect for better or worse. I

4(just my thoughts) I’m simply saying utility as the precision weapons since what you pointed out earlier jack of all trDes still exists with these weapons. but tbh I hardly consider say the carbine and pistol a cloned gun. Because from my experience every gun is different in some way even if they’re the same TYPE of weapon.  
also redo split gate, and see if you enjoy it.  P.S don’t play ranked you won’t find a game. 

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3 hours ago, Boyo said:

@BigShow36 What weapons besides the AR do you think should be noob weapons?  

None. Everything else is either a skill-based utility weapon, a niche weapon, a power weapon, or worthless. 

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1 hour ago, MultiLockOn said:

“I watched the video afterwards And it seemed interesting, and would be good for a halo sandbox” 

Are you serious with this shit lol.  I described an ideal weapon sandbox.  I listed 4 games that had them.  And I linked you gameplay footage of someone actively proving that it not only is easily possible but that it works at the highest possible level of gameplay. The first ever real 3d FPS in history managed to do this on its first try, why is this concept so difficult to grasp now.  Oh, and Boyo literally took like 2 minutes to list out random attributes you could give to weapons to give them utility beyond just "Hur durr this one is better because it has more auto aim".

 

That took no time at all to come up with a hand full of better solutions than what we have now.  Good job.

 

1: You don't know what the masses want. You think you know what reddit wants that's currently upvoted on the front page, and there's still contention about it.

”I’ve read reddit, Twitter, FB groups etc. what doesn’t as the mass dude that’s currently available. Unfortunately we can’t base shit on numbers that don’t exist such as a crowd that might return if classic halo comes back”  it’s not like quake or any other arena FPS is doing so hot these days. It’s best to accept the fact these games just aren’t well liked as they were” 

2: What the masses think they want is not necessarily what they actually want or what is good for the game
. “this is some elitist shit that the masses get pissed at us competitive players all the time for because basically you’re calling them idiots(yes they are but they don’t want to hear that) 

3: What the actual masses want is probably a classic Halo with a classic Halo sandbox.  The original fan base for the trilogy completely dwarfs whatever you're seeing nowadays. They're just not the ones actively posting on reddit. 
“I played during those days and I’d like to agree but at the same time we don’t exactly got any preachers, preaching for a return.”

4: Interestingly enough the exact thing you're describing is the opposite of Halo 5.  You are wrong for using certain guns in Halo 5 because they are straight up outclassed by others.  That is much less the case with the other examples I provided.  You just have a shallow understanding of what you're talking about so you can't even recognize that.

“In h5 I can use mostly everything and be effective so idk what you’re talking about dude, gosh you’re an elitist” 

Nope.  Not even true.  People, even now, love what the Plasma Rifle and Plasma Pistol are.  Do you have an idea how lame it would be if those guns were killing efficiently on their own merit.  What makes them great for the sandbox is that you need to couple them with something else to maximize the functionality, you don't just pick them up and shred everything in sight. Halo could stand to have a lot more weapons like that.

“Having niche weapons like those is ok, but people still like to have other weapons that are kill effective” 

1:  Quake is not defined by the balance of its sandbox, that's just a good principle it follows. Many good games have sandboxes in this vain, look at Murder Miners.  The movement tech and speed is more closely related to Quake's identity.

2: Halo does not become Quake if it chooses to subscribe to an actual diverse and skillfully balanced weapon sandbox

”what I meant here was more or less the movement of quake. If we took the weapons of quake and put them in halos sandbox(MLG h3 BMS) then I promise you, we’d see a different game” 

3: If this did make Halo more like Quake - that is fine, and much preferable to the alternative route of leaning closer to a military shooter. Which it is.

”I know you love quake but it’s not fun for majority of people and the population proves that” 

4: I'm talking in circles with you when I say this but we've already seen what this sandbox looks like in Halo CE, and less so Halo Reach.

“Never got a chance to play CE on LAN only through mcc, so all I know is pistol and rockets” 

If I gave you a modded version of Halo 5 that removed all the artificial appearance of the weapons so that they all shared the same model of a generic white block, no sound effects, animations, etc.  And all you had to determine what you were shooting was how the weapon actually shot and killed opponents (ie,  the things that actually define the weapon) you probably would not know if you were shooting the magnum or the DMR.  They are essentially the same thing but the DMR has a better zoom and 2sk melee.  That's it.  The LR is not a different weapon because it shoots orange bullets.  That is completely superfluous.  It is the same gun as the pistol but it kills faster and easier and is just better. The colors, the weapon model, the sound effects, all of that isn't real and doesn't define the weapon's actual performance.  We're getting closer every Halo game to Call of Duty levels of weapon balance where they have 20 black rectangles that all kill in 3-5 bullets at full auto and have slightly different recoil patterns and Rates of Fire.  A kindergartner could see past that.

 

Also I've played plenty of splitgate for no reason other than to have ground to completely dismiss it when people recommended it.  I find the whole premise of everyone having infinite access to teleporters completely asinine and it's not a wonder that the game died instantly.  It's actually game breaking.  I'll have to upload all my clips to youtube sometime and paste them here to show how ridiculous they are.

” Totally agree, I think the OP portals if removed would of been far better or maybe a limit on two portals then a cool down, because it’s heVily abused by anyone good” 

 

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@MultiLockOn I simply think splitgate weapon balance is decently good. They got an AR that’s pretty powerful but it’s pistols far stronger, therefore rewarding the superior skilled.  The portals killed that game though. 

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I like reading multilockons posts but holy fuck I hope you enjoy writing this shit up and entertaining these dolts. 
 

arlong. The masses do not know what they want. People will claim to want sprint then get frustrated at it once the game is out. Or enjoy it but then never play past week 2. 
 

oldschool runescape is a game released to appease the masses. The masses got to vote on content released for the game. If 75% doesnt like it, doesnt get put into the game. The population went from 50k to 10k in 4months  on release because everyone voted away any changes to the game. Eventually the masses left and the remaining fanbase voted in content and the population went from 10k to 100k, slowly over time. Even to this day people vote in content that gets removed later because they realize they dont want it.  
 

100k is either #2 or #3 for mmos and would be ranked in top 10 on steam. 10k? Well i guess its better than halo5 and reach lmao

 

i forgot we got our own halo examples. One of the most common complaints for mcc was map voting existing.  Now one of the most common complaints is map voting not existing. 1 year ago people were complaining about AR starts being in mcc and now people want them back.

 

social media does not dictate what the masses actually want  


 

and remembered something about oldschool runescape. Twitter and reddit wants pvp removed from the game and just have pve yet pvp makes up like 90% of watched content on twitch and youtube lmao 

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1 hour ago, Riddler said:

I like reading multilockons posts but holy fuck I hope you enjoy writing this shit up and entertaining these dolts.  

That's love, good looks brother.

 

I do enjoy conversation so long as the other body tries to be somewhat competent and realize when they're at a loss. I feel like if I have the knowledge to contribute regarding to design then it's just as much on me as if is anyone else to help educate when you can. Otherwise we're all guilty too. 

 

Also, a lot more people are reading these conversations then just the couple people that post. That AR/plasma rifle clip I posted here the other day has 500+ views. So even if there's someone there on the other end reading this that's learning then that's a win too. 

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2 hours ago, Riddler said:

I like reading multilockons posts but holy fuck I hope you enjoy writing this shit up and entertaining these dolts. 
 

arlong. The masses do not know what they want. People will claim to want sprint then get frustrated at it once the game is out. Or enjoy it but then never play past week 2. 
 

oldschool runescape is a game released to appease the masses. The masses got to vote on content released for the game. If 75% doesnt like it, doesnt get put into the game. The population went from 50k to 10k in 4months  on release because everyone voted away any changes to the game. Eventually the masses left and the remaining fanbase voted in content and the population went from 10k to 100k, slowly over time. Even to this day people vote in content that gets removed later because they realize they dont want it.  
 

100k is either #2 or #3 for mmos and would be ranked in top 10 on steam. 10k? Well i guess its better than halo5 and reach lmao

 

i forgot we got our own halo examples. One of the most common complaints for mcc was map voting existing.  Now one of the most common complaints is map voting not existing. 1 year ago people were complaining about AR starts being in mcc and now people want them back.

 

social media does not dictate what the masses actually want  


 

and remembered something about oldschool runescape. Twitter and reddit wants pvp removed from the game and just have pve yet pvp makes up like 90% of watched content on twitch and youtube lmao 

I don’t have much experience when it comes to RS, but that sounds amazing TBH.

youre not wrong, but unfortunately the masses are still the masses and taking consideration for what they want isn’t wrong. It just so happens what people were “expecting” with said change didn’t happen. Example is AR start BTB. People were expecting less steam rolls, more vehicle usage, less spawn killing etc, and they got the opposite. In terms of map voting people simply wanted voting gone because of h3 abuse. But with the map composer the people would be far happier.  The people who dislike map voting are the people who like candy corn while the rest of us like recess chocolate! 
Idk why people want pvp gone in RS, I used to watch my bro play that shit, and he’d gank some noobs and steal their shit. 

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12 hours ago, Basu said:

faster melee, maybe more forgiving melee hitbox too

Don't agree with these, but the general idea's good. The AR's minimum TTK should always sit slightly above an imperfect kill with a main utility, and it should be somewhat reliably accurate outside of like 4 meters. Otherwise we go back to people crouching around corners with it. 

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4 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Don't agree with these, but the general idea's good. The AR's minimum TTK should always sit slightly above an imperfect kill with a main utility, and it should be somewhat reliably accurate outside of like 4 meters. Otherwise we go back to people crouching around corners with it. 

Not by a lot obviously, not trying to create a sword here lol. But by giving small advantages like that to the AR or other weapons which aren't the utility you can create a much more interesting sandbox. Agree on the accuracy thing. I never understood why the AR is just a poor maps shotgun.

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2 hours ago, _Synapse said:

The AR's minimum TTK should always sit slightly above an imperfect kill with a main utility, and it should be somewhat reliably accurate outside of like 4 meters.

The Magnum kills in 4 shots in 1.0 seconds.  The Assault Rifle kills in 13 shots in 1.6 seconds.  This means that if an AR hits every shot and the Magnum misses a shot, the AR will just barely beat the Magnum (1.6s vs 1.67s).  

The AR has a relatively small reticle with minimal spread until 4 shots are consecutively fired.  After 4 shots, bloom rapidly expands the reticle, significantly increasing the spread, encouraging burst fire.  This means that outside of close range, the minimum killtime of 1.6 seconds cannot be achieved because the user has to briefly pause between 4 round bursts.  The Magnum can now miss 2 shots and still beat a burst firing AR at range.  

What do you think of that balance?  

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7 hours ago, Arlong said:

The people who dislike map voting are the people who like candy corn while the rest of us like recess chocolate! 

Stuff like this makes me wonder if you’re an excellent troll playing a character, and not just hopelessly illiterate.

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6 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

I like the veto system and candy corn. 

Allow me to rephrase that. The people who hate map voting PREFER candy corn over recess chocolate. 
Veto overall is better, but 343 disagreed simply because certain maps will always get vetoed. and I’m the person who likes to think “why is that a bad thing?” That tells me the majority hate this map, so why should I have to play vahallah ARS, because 2 people in my game like that mode? This is why quit bans are so annoying because of all the bs of this game. 

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55 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Stuff like this makes me wonder if you’re an excellent troll playing a character, and not just hopelessly illiterate.

What about that sentence was illiterate? Elaborate? 

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

The Magnum kills in 4 shots in 1.0 seconds.  The Assault Rifle kills in 13 shots in 1.6 seconds.  This means that if an AR hits every shot and the Magnum misses a shot, the AR will just barely beat the Magnum (1.6s vs 1.67s).  

The AR has a relatively small reticle with minimal spread until 4 shots are consecutively fired.  After 4 shots, bloom rapidly expands the reticle, significantly increasing the spread, encouraging burst fire.  This means that outside of close range, the minimum killtime of 1.6 seconds cannot be achieved because the user has to briefly pause between 4 round bursts.  The Magnum can now miss 2 shots and still beat a burst firing AR at range.  

What do you think of that balance?  

I think be a good balance. Still, I think overall we should just use the h4 AR, as that’s probably the most balanced one so far. I like the idea of needed to burst fire it, but at the same time, think to myself this, “at what range is this needed?” So would this be needed say shooting at the guy on S2 from training? Or would a farther distance be in order? 

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