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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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I'm just glad AR starts in BTB will be in its own playlist for testing.

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2 hours ago, OG Nick said:

343 decided to make social 75% AR starts for Reach because they are dumb  smart

I think this is for Slayer only. Obj still is dmr.

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14 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

> still playing Reach in 2020

Seriously that shit got old after a week.

Some of us play pc 

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You know 343 has really got to get with the times. Now where am I going with this obvious answer? What I mean is they need to deliver fast updates. Game companies have increased the time when updates would come to video games, heck’s most games will take a weak to give out an update(playlist updates do not count) . But 343 takes way to long to deliver and phrases like “ready when it’s ready” “we’re looking into it” only increase the frustration when that looking into it takes weeks upon weeks. 343 has failed to upheld to the new standard and quality expected. You can’t just take weeks to do something  and expect gamers to be forgiving. 

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1 minute ago, Arlong said:

You know 343 has really got to get with the times. Now where am I going with this obvious answer? What I mean is they need to deliver fast updates. Game companies have increased the time when updates would come to video games, heck’s most games will take a weak to give out an update(playlist updates do not count) . But 343 takes way to long to deliver and phrases like “ready when it’s ready” “we’re looking into it” only increase the frustration when that looking into it takes weeks upon weeks. 343 has failed to upheld to the new standard and quality expected. You can’t just take weeks to do something  and expect gamers to be forgiving. 

Would rather it take time than it be bullshit, or broken.

Modern Warfare had multiple quick "patches" to fix stupidly broken shit, which never fixed anything, in some if not all cases broke more shit, and made the community more and more pissed off. 

Quickness isn't a quality I want. I'd rather they take weeks if what they give is good.

Especially with the knowledge this is a small team, and not a full scale endeavor. More willing to wait over it.

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

Would rather it take time than it be bullshit, or broken.

Modern Warfare had multiple quick "patches" to fix stupidly broken shit, which never fixed anything, in some if not all cases broke more shit, and made the community more and more pissed off. 

Quickness isn't a quality I want. I'd rather they take weeks if what they give is good.

Especially with the knowledge this is a small team, and not a full scale endeavor. More willing to wait over it.

Quick fixes still at the least are better for a community since in most cases it fixes stuff. Sometimes it breaks shit but most developers will have fixed that within the week itself.

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Just now, Arlong said:

Quick fixes still at the least are better for a community since in most cases it fixes stuff. Sometimes it breaks shit but most developers will have fixed that within the week itself.

Why not just wait the two weeks, so you don't break shit you don't need to, and get customer goodwill in the form of reliability. 

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1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

I think this is for Slayer only. Obj still is dmr.

Still a terrible idea

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45 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Why not just wait the two weeks, so you don't break shit you don't need to, and get customer goodwill in the form of reliability. 

Because most of these guys don’t break shit. Even the shit in MW didn’t produce game breaking shit, that results in reduced population.

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10 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Because most of these guys don’t break shit. Even the shit in MW didn’t produce game breaking shit, that results in reduced population.

MW produced a fuckton of gamebreaking shit, lol. Updates regularly screwed the game, both in terms of stability and in game. Actually ended up breaking parties, too.

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They weighted AR starts to be 3x that of DMR starts? Without vote or veto?

 

Guess I'm never leaving ranked. The fuck were they thinking...

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8 minutes ago, Three Six Xero said:

They weighted AR starts to be 3x that of DMR starts? Without vote or veto?

 

Guess I'm never leaving ranked. The fuck were they thinking...

Do you literally never read any forums besides here or Social media? 

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2 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Do you literally never read any forums besides here or Social media? 

If you're suggesting that I should look elsewhere, I won't debase myself by reading through the pit of general morons that Waypoint has been infamous for. 

I don't care if a bunch of thumbless ******* crave weapon starts that only serve to put them at an even greater disadvantage once the better players in the match pick up the DMR's and NR's and proceed to destroy them with arguably superior weaponry that they can't counter with their starting loadout.

The worse part is that even with skill-based matchmaking in social (if that were a thing) it would just corrupt higher level gameplay with the same shit, only it will merely depend on who picks up and holds the DMR's at the general start. Turning matches into a crapshoot like that are the reason why listening to people who have no understanding of how Halo functions and people who request AR starts for BTB which will only serve to make vehicles even more powerful will only negatively affect Halo in the long term.

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26 minutes ago, Three Six Xero said:

If you're suggesting that I should look elsewhere, I won't debase myself by reading through the pit of general morons that Waypoint has been infamous for. 

I don't care if a bunch of thumbless ******* crave weapon starts that only serve to put them at an even greater disadvantage once the better players in the match pick up the DMR's and NR's and proceed to destroy them with arguably superior weaponry that they can't counter with their starting loadout.

The worse part is that even with skill-based matchmaking in social (if that were a thing) it would just corrupt higher level gameplay with the same shit, only it will merely depend on who picks up and holds the DMR's at the general start. Turning matches into a crapshoot like that are the reason why listening to people who have no understanding of how Halo functions and people who request AR starts for BTB which will only serve to make vehicles even more powerful will only negatively affect Halo in the long term.

Dude it just needs to be this way for now, when the plebs realize how weak off spawn they are, they’ll argue for a change.

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1 hour ago, Arlong said:

Dude it just needs to be this way for now, when the plebs realize how weak off spawn they are, they’ll argue for a change.

"Remove DMR's from social, they're too strong"

"They're power weapons!"

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3 hours ago, Arlong said:

You know 343 has really got to get with the times. Now where am I going with this obvious answer? 

And what question are you answering?

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I haven't touched 4v4 in about 2 weeks, so my judgement may be poor, but IMO Halo 3 had the best balance with grenades. 

It wasn't just the grenades, but the map combined with the effect of the grenades. Seriously, the frags in Halo 3 Rumble Pit are almost deadlier than snipe and rockets. Once you get into the habit of pre-nading and nade angles start coming naturally, multi-kills are a breeze. It's incredible how many angles there are to bank your grenades off.

Halo 3's would be the sweet spot for grenades if they made the shield to health balance 70/40 rather than the 70/30 it's been since Halo 2. Also, shape the damage radius such that a well-timed jump can avoid the majority of damage from a frag. Additionally, nerf the damage a person's frags do to themselves so that nadejumping can finally become a fleshed out thing. It's definitely possible to do on maps (Ghost Town, Citadel and Foundry are two maps that immediately come to mind) but it's not really worth it. You can jump up to rockets on foundry from the bottom of the map with a nadejump, and you can jump from the shotgun bridge to the plasma rifle ledge on Ghost Town, and right after picking up OS on Citadel you can nadejump directly to rockets, though that's it. Another thing that really should never have left since HCE/H2 is the ability to nade power weapons around the map. 

Imagine being caught a shot or two down by an enemy, getting behind a wall, throwing a nade at your feet, and winning the fight because your opponent didn't anticipate you launching yourself an additional two meters into the air. Or getting shot at close quarters and nading a shotgun to yourself. God I wish. 

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

Dude it just needs to be this way for now, when the plebs realize how weak off spawn they are, they’ll argue for a change.

No they fucking won't, lol. 

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Decided to hop on r/Halo to see what nuclear take they had this time, -

 

"The AR is the pinnacle of Bungies golden triangle of Halo (Weapons, Grenades and Melee) It should always be the default weapon of most playlists."

 

Should just delete the reddit app altogether at this point

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2 hours ago, OG Nick said:

"Remove DMR's from social, they're too strong"

"They're power weapons!"

The DMR basically is a power weapon, especially mouse and keyboard related(the mouse input isn’t perfect but it’s better outside aim assist range) 

these people need to experience the auto/pistol starts, so they’ll be able to realize it’s deep down not what they want. They’ll realize how ineffective they are off spawn. 

1 hour ago, Shekkles said:

And what question are you answering?

Yeah I didn’t put too much thought when I was saying that first part, sounded cooler in my head. But still I believe 343 need to get with the time and give frequent updates.

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38 minutes ago, The Tyco said:

No they fucking won't, lol. 

You’re probably right, but even casual plebs don’t like spawning weak. They just don’t like the idea of people spawning with something that’s just TOO powerful. Accuracy, range, hitscan. 

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8 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Decided to hop on r/Halo to see what nuclear take they had this time, -

 

"The AR is the pinnacle of Bungies golden triangle of Halo (Weapons, Grenades and Melee) It should always be the default weapon of most playlists."

 

Should just delete the reddit app altogether at this point

Maybe shadowban posts saying "AR starts", lmao.

27 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

I haven't touched 4v4 in about 2 weeks, so my judgement may be poor, but IMO Halo 3 had the best balance with grenades. 

It wasn't just the grenades, but the map combined with the effect of the grenades. Seriously, the frags in Halo 3 Rumble Pit are almost deadlier than snipe and rockets. Once you get into the habit of pre-nading and nade angles start coming naturally, multi-kills are a breeze. It's incredible how many angles there are to bank your grenades off.

Halo 3's would be the sweet spot for grenades if they made the shield to health balance 70/40 rather than the 70/30 it's been since Halo 2. Also, shape the damage radius such that a well-timed jump can avoid the majority of damage from a frag. Additionally, nerf the damage a person's frags do to themselves so that nadejumping can finally become a fleshed out thing. It's definitely possible to do on maps (Ghost Town, Citadel and Foundry are two maps that immediately come to mind) but it's not really worth it. You can jump up to rockets on foundry from the bottom of the map with a nadejump, and you can jump from the shotgun bridge to the plasma rifle ledge on Ghost Town, and right after picking up OS on Citadel you can nadejump directly to rockets, though that's it. Another thing that really should never have left since HCE/H2 is the ability to nade power weapons around the map. 

Imagine being caught a shot or two down by an enemy, getting behind a wall, throwing a nade at your feet, and winning the fight because your opponent didn't anticipate you launching yourself an additional two meters into the air. Or getting shot at close quarters and nading a shotgun to yourself. God I wish. 

Although, I feel the paper vs. practicality viewpoint muddles this. 

Like nadelaunching yourself in combat. Again, it "might" be different in practice, but if you're jumping behind a wall, I'd imagine most people's first thought is that the enemy will jump peak if they're cornered and gonna die anyway, or just making a desperation play. So, at that point, why would the person being backed down catch themselves in an animation to go into an already predictable, and unstoppable state? Especially if the nade DOES deal damage. Your jump height in Halo is historically already high, and already a disadvantageous position to catch yourself in, given you basically float for half a second, god forbid you lose health to do it and float even higher. I dunno why we think adding a nade to it will change anything.

Same for the weapon nading argument. To me, and this is obviously my opinion. But it feels hilariously cheesy at a base. Not just cheesy, but impractical, and more so, unlikely as a concept. You don't generally just toss nades to anything but predetermined locations. Nade spots. Furthermore, trying to nadelaunch a weapon to yourself is just putting you in another impractical angle when you could be prenading or preaiming your enemy approaching you. Or moving to get the melee off.

It feels like the times where it would occur aren't up to skill, but circumstance. If I constantly catch people at an angle and they're failing this nade launch, and then 1 time out of 10 they get it and just insta-nuke me with a shotgun, that doesn't exactly scream "skillful comeback", especially given you know, power weapons like that are easy as hell, lol. It's a diceroll for an undeserved comeback. Onto that tangent, are we designing maps and weapon locations on this? Are we gonna be putting pieces of cover around a shotgun so that a nade thrown within a specific vicinity will go towards a specific direction quickly enough to reach its would-be owner, justifying the mechanic? How would this affect the map as a whole? Are we gonna design consistent physics to make it work as a strategy and not a cheese mechanic? In short, would it be a mechanic akin to a Spartan Ability? Where it's inherently designed for, or something that's a byproduct. There's a giant rabbit hole to this, and tons of implications. Many of which I'm uncomfy with.

It just feels like a lot of effort for cool stuff that really won't be used, because it's either circumstantial, or already "exists" and is detrimental to even be doing at a comp level.

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20 minutes ago, Arlong said:

The DMR basically is a power weapon, especially mouse and keyboard related(the mouse input isn’t perfect but it’s better outside aim assist range) 

these people need to experience the auto/pistol starts, so they’ll be able to realize it’s deep down not what they want. They’ll realize how ineffective they are off spawn. 

Yeah I didn’t put too much thought when I was saying that first part, sounded cooler in my head. But still I believe 343 need to get with the time and give frequent updates.

They defended H2 SMG starts, so I doubt it. 

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3 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Although, I feel the paper vs. practicality viewpoint muddles this. 

Like nadelaunching yourself in combat. Again, it "might" be different in practice, but if you're jumping behind a wall, I'd imagine most people's first thought is that the enemy will jump peak if they're cornered and gonna die anyway, or just making a desperation play. So, at that point, why would the person being backed down catch themselves in an animation to go into an already predictable, and unstoppable state? Especially if the nade DOES deal damage. Your jump height in Halo is historically already high, and already a disadvantageous position to catch yourself in, given you basically float for half a second, god forbid you lose health to do it and float even higher. I dunno why we think adding a nade to it will change anything.

Same for the weapon nading argument. To me, and this is obviously my opinion. But it feels hilariously cheesy at a base. Not just cheesy, but impractical, and more so, unlikely as a concept. You don't generally just toss nades to anything but predetermined locations. Nade spots. Furthermore, trying to nadelaunch a weapon to yourself is just putting you in another impractical angle when you could be prenading or preaiming your enemy approaching you. Or moving to get the melee off.

It feels like the times where it would occur aren't up to skill, but circumstance. If I constantly catch people at an angle and they're failing this nade launch, and then 1 time out of 10 they get it and just insta-nuke me with a shotgun, that doesn't exactly scream "skillful comeback", especially given you know, power weapons like that are easy as hell, lol. It's a diceroll for an undeserved comeback. Onto that tangent, are we designing maps and weapon locations on this? Are we gonna be putting pieces of cover around a shotgun so that a nade thrown within a specific vicinity will go towards a specific direction quickly enough to reach its would-be owner, justifying the mechanic? How would this affect the map as a whole? Are we gonna design consistent physics to make it work as a strategy and not a cheese mechanic? In short, would it be a mechanic akin to a Spartan Ability? Where it's inherently designed for, or something that's a byproduct. There's a giant rabbit hole to this, and tons of implications. Many of which I'm uncomfy with.

It just feels like a lot of effort for cool stuff that really won't be used, because it's either circumstantial, or already "exists" and is detrimental to even be doing at a comp level.

From experience, most people in FFA will typically jump around the corner to avoid getting nadeshot from behind the corner. I agree that you're disadvantaged while in midair, but the additional height gives you more distance between your head and your opponent's reticle, which gives you a couple more milliseconds worth of a window. Especially against people playing on lower sensitivity, it's the difference between getting a kill and dying. 

Nading weapon spawns doesn't have to require CE levels of specificity in player position + grenade arc, not unless the player attempts to do so for a weapon that's half a map across. Yes, there's a HYPER-specific position and angle for you to bring sniper rifle to yourself on Hang 'em High. At the same time, you don't have to be that precise when simply knocking down camo/OS on Wizard. The required precision for the latter is almost as general as a pre-nade. Personally, I would advocate keeping both since they add some dynamism to the game. 

I wouldn't say it's downright random, since an opponent's grenades meant to knock around a weapon can be countered with your own, but I don't have too great of an issue with it. It's the same principle as hitting a really great sniper headshot on an oblique angle at close range. A fair portion of the time, people won't be able to do it, but if they have the skill to pull it off, then I feel like they deserve the advantage it gives them. 

I'll add that though I used this example, it's not typically how I imagined this being used, as a clutch comeback tool in the heat of a 1v1. I imagine it as a way to avoid a chaotic and incalculable tactical situation. I despise the 2v2 standoffs for rockets that you have on Halo 3/Reach's the Pit. There's little rhyme to them, pre-nades ruin any predictability, and even getting to the power weapon first doesn't guarantee victory. I think of weapon nading being used like in CE Chill Out, where jumping to the rocket ledge is too dangerous so people just nade it off. 

Also, shotgun probably wasn't the best example for me to use. The shotgun and all the power weapons in it's category need a lot of careful checks and balances in Infinite so that they aren't the shallow lolnukes at their designated ranges that they have been for so long. 

Designing maps for the mechanic ideally wouldn't be that complicated. I may be a little lacking in foresight here, but all that I see being supplementary to weapon nading is a bit more space around the weapon spawns themselves, and lower weapon weight. CE really didn't have that much depth in it's map design from the creator's end, and it turned out decently as far as the mechanic is concerned. Ideally they'd get fleshed out and treated as a first-class gameplay mechanic and not just as a lazy byproduct of short-sighted game design. Though, this is too far into the depths of speculation and contingencies to be sure of anything. 

(Being realistic, I'm a on a thread on an internet forum so I wouldn't expect more than 3 or so people to read this, much less the mechanic be implemented AND fleshed out in a mainline game.) 

At least theoretically, I feel that the concept is robust. The specifics of it's implementation is another question. It's likelihood isn't even a question. 

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