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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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5 hours ago, Mythik Nick said:

I don't see the problem with Headhunter. Casual scrubs like running around and collecting the cool flaming skulls and trying to get points and the chads like statting on the casual scrubs collecting the cool flaming skulls trying to get points. It's a clear case of a win/win scenario. We need more gametypes like this.

It's a game type that literally marks idiots on your HUD through walls. What more could you ask for? I'm also a big fan of Territories, which basically herds all of the tards into a small number of brightly colored corrals for your convenience.

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40 minutes ago, arglactable said:

It's a game type that literally marks idiots on your HUD through walls. What more could you ask for? I'm also a big fan of Territories, which basically herds all of the tards into a small number of brightly colored corrals for your convenience.

It's so sick. You just post up with LOS to the score locations and wait for them to run in and try to score. It's especially funny when they have a bunch of skulls and they get gunned down just barely before touching the hill. Also BTB territories is GOAT. Kreygasm

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d3s2bi8.png

Finished the season's worth of tiers today. Have to give 343i insane props for this unlock system's length and lack of stupidly cheesy, long-ass levels, even without double XP. Best progression system since Halo 4's by a long shot. Simple, easy, relaxing, and effective.

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I'm trying to pitch an improvement to Reach's current 4v4 KotH settings in Match Composer. Here's what I submitted. We'll see if it gains any traction.

 

Reach King of the Hill Revamp Proposal

The goal was to give the gameplay clear-cut structure and reduce chaos, provide a memorable and intuitive Hill rotation, and stick to hills that provide interesting and fair gameplay.

 

Respawn Time:

In order to provide gameplay with structure that can play out in a coherent fashion, I believe an increased respawn time is unavoidable. 5 seconds is not enough time to slay out a team and establish control, nor enough time to retake control from a team. This leads to sloppy gameplay where players are rewarded for throwing their body at the hill instead of making an intelligent play. This is exacerbated by Reach’s very long shield recharge delay. Let’s say you win a battle for the right to get some hill time, but you don’t want to step into the hill while you’re still weak, so you wait for your shields. On some maps, the player you just killed has time to come off spawn and sprint to you before you step foot in the hill. Even just reloading your weapon and beginning to sprint accounts for about half of their respawn time.

10 second respawns is the standard for objective modes across the history of Halo. That’s what they play best with, and that’s what I recommend we use. Duck has told me in the past that 10sec is too sweaty for social, which I understand despite disagreeing with him (it’s working great in CE). But currently there is no option between 5 and 10. One would need to be patched into the game. And I think 5 seconds is completely untenable. It just creates action-sack levels of gameplay where nothing matters. King of the Hill is supposed to be a core mode in Halo, and right now it’s totally underperforming. I think 343 just needs to take a stand with these core modes and say “This is how this mode plays best, and this is how it will play.”  All these compromises and concessions with respawn times cheapen the integrity of the game.

 

Cut Rationale: 

Many of the maps currently in MM have too many hills to reasonably memorize the rotation. A memorable hill rotation is key to reducing randomness and making a quality gametype. But this bloated hill count also makes each individual hill less memorable, and stunts the development of the meta around holding and attacking each hill. When a map sticks to 4,5, or 6 quality hills, each hill has time to develop its own identity.

So which hills do we cut? Put simply, any hill that is too dangerous or too safe should be removed. No one wants to throw their life away just for a second or two of hill time, and no one wants to make a Lord of the Rings journey just to get back to the hill (especially with 60sec hills). Also, any hill that has cheesy, corner-campy gameplay was removed. Exceptions were made for certain dangerous hills because that was the only fair, equidistant option for a starting hill. But where possible, I cut the moshpit bottom mid hill with no cover in favor of something tucked off to the side but still fair to both teams. I tried to exclude any hill that had no nearby cover whatsoever, and any hill that was both difficult to reach and had limited lines of sight to it. 

 

Rotation Rationale:

My goal was to keep a fair starting hill despite it being difficult to earn much time in, but then rotate to a hill that could reasonably be fortified. I tried to make the initial rotation move away from major power weapons or power positions, so that players had to make choice between some obj now or potentially more obj later. Later rotations attempt to follow the “Quarter Turn” formula, where the hill only moves 25% of the way around the map. This means that teams holding the current hill and teams coming off spawn across the map theoretically have an even fight for the next hill each time. I don’t like moving the hill all the way across the map, because I feel like that punishes the team that successfully locked down the current hill.  I wanted to make it feasible for the controlling team to make a smooth rotation to the next hill, if executed well enough. Any hill that was too close to the current hill (where such a rotation would be trivial) was deemed redundant, and thus cut.

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Current Battle Canyon

1: Sword

2: Red Flag

3: Blue Flag

4: Red Top

5: Blue Top

6: Red Needler

7: Blue Needler

 

Proposed Battle Canyon

1: Sword

2: Blue Needler

3: Red Needler

4: Blue Top

5: Red Top

————————————————————

Current Boardwalk (Order Unknown)

1: Top Snipe

Red Initial / Cafe Square

Mid Boardwalk / Above Rockets / Skybridge

Blue Side Boardwalk

Top Blue House / Rest Stop 2nd Floor

Between Shotguns / Ocean View

Plasma Launcher

Needle Rifle Front Rockets

Behind Top Shotty / Upper Courtyard

 

Proposed Boardwalk

1: Top Snipe

3: Ocean View

4: Plasma Launcher

5: Mid Boardwalk

—————————————————————

Current Condemned

1: Middle/Rockets

2: “Observation Deck”/Grey/Near Sword

3: Green/ “Repair Bay”

4: “Generator”/ Red Snipe

5: “Communications” / Under Blue Snipe

6: Shotgun /Yellow/ Tram Station


 

Proposed Condemned

1: Middle

2: Grey /Sword /Observation Deck

3: Blue/ Communications

4: Green /Repair Bay

5: Red Snipe / Generator

6: Yellow / Tram Station / Shotgun

—————————————————————

Current Countdown

1: Bottom Mid

2: Sword

3: S2

4: Conc Rifle

5: Red Flag

6: Blue Flag

7: Rockets/Under Sword

 

Proposed Countdown

1: Conc Rifle

2: Red Flag

3: Rockets / Garage Door

4: Blue Flag

—————————————————————————————————

Current High Noon

1 Rockets

2 Red Nose

3 Top Red

4 Top Blue

5 Batters Box

6 Blue Shotty

7 Red Shotty

 

Proposed High Noon

1:  Red Nose

2:  Blue Shotgun

3:  Top Blue

4:  Red Shotgun

5:  Top Red

——————————————————————————————

Current Powerhouse

1: Bottom Mid

2: GL Window

3: Rock Garden

4: Powerhouse Bridges

5: Focus Rifle Yard

6: Horseshoe

7: Low Bridge

8: Near Shotty

 

Proposed Powerhouse

1: Low Bridge

2: Near Shotty

3: Focus Yard

4: Powerhouse Bridges

5: GL Window

—————————————————

Current Reflection

1: Snipe 2

2: Middle Courtyard

3: H2 Shotty

4: OS DMR

5: S1

6: Front of Sword

 

Proposed Reflection

1: S2 / Under Snipe

2: H2 Shotty

3: Middle Courtyard

4: OS DMR

5: S1 / Lift Healthpack

—————————————————————————

Current Sword Base (Order Unknown)

Server Room / Near Red Initial

GL Bridge

Snipe

Bottom Mid

Bottom Mid Statue

Bottom Mid Window

Front Sword

Blue Needle / Elbow

Top Red Lift

Shotgun

Bottom Gold Lift

Under Red Initial / Operations

Break Room

 

Proposed Sword Base

1: Bottom Mid Statue

2: Blue Elbow / Needle Rifle

3: Server Room / Near Red Initial

4: Bottom Gold

5: Front Sword

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Looking good so far. Some of this might actually get implemented. 

@Shekkles, can you help me figure out how to not always skip a line when I hit enter on this forum? That post took up way too much space.

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56 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I'm trying to pitch an improvement to Reach's current 4v4 KotH settings in Match Composer. Here's what I submitted. We'll see if it gains any traction.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "better" settings, but I'd rather we fix or propose fixes for HCS 4v4 before we begin fixing social 4v4. Social doesn't really hold a candle to it. And HCS has many problems that are exclusive (currently) that we should fix, if we're running this competitively. I don't really think Sword Base KotH is something we have to get onto, lmao. It's just social. Which also has its own quirks, exclusive to social. Like flag capping mannerisms. Or general map rotation. It's just goofy shit. The most we really need is ZB/DMRs. We don't need to begin ensuring KotH is as comp/consistent as it can be when the games themselves don't actually "matter" and don't take place in a skill-based environment.

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Koth is a game mode I’m starting to think really just sucks ass in halo. It’s so hard to balance, and although I think the mode saw its first appearance in halo(far as my knowledge) there’s games that do it far better, like over watch. Most maps in halo aren’t suited for this mode, and at best in competitive it’s done poorly as well, since in majority of the games it’s played, games simply end by time limit, although perhaps a reduced score could solve that problem since in my opinion 250 is a bit much.  Maybe double,triple, and quad points for more people standing in the hill. 

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15 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Koth is a game mode I’m starting to think really just sucks ass in halo. It’s so hard to balance, and although I think the mode saw its first appearance in halo(far as my knowledge) there’s games that do it far better, like over watch. Most maps in halo aren’t suited for this mode, and at best in competitive it’s done poorly as well, since in majority of the games it’s played, games simply end by time limit, although perhaps a reduced score could solve that problem since in my opinion 250 is a bit much.  Maybe double,triple, and quad points for more people standing in the hill. 

That's funny because I think Koth is Halo's best gametype by a mile. It utilizes the full 4v4 player count well, can work on any map by putting the hill in any difficult to control location, and has very granular scoring to more accurately represent the tide of the game. 

 

I think the only better gametype for Halo would be Warpath.

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Good changes Hardway. I love KOTH and especially in this game where CTF in MM is busted it's the only gametype besides Assault and Oddball that I can stand.

Few things I noticed:

- Top Blue hill on High Noon needs to be moved or cut as its the closest thing to free hill time I've seen in the game. Put it at top open ramp or something.
- Condemned just needs to be removed from the rotation as it's a BTB map. By the time you reach the hill the enemies usually gained 30-50 points.
- Why aren't we playing King on Zealot, Asylum (should btw get replaced by a proper Sanc remake if Duck has any say in that) and possibly Pinnacle? Way better maps than what it's in rotation currently.
- Score limit of 150 is a joke.

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11 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Finished the season's worth of tiers today. Have to give 343i insane props for this unlock system's length and lack of stupidly cheesy, long-ass levels, even without double XP. Best progression system since Halo 4's by a long shot. Simple, easy, relaxing, and effective.

Wouldn't the unlock system be a lot better if we could choose what we wanted? When things are unlocked at a specific level, it seems like those will more likely be chosen because it takes more time to get, rather than it being what you actually want to wear. Which is fine, when it's something you unlocked for doing a specific challenge (like beating Legendary campaign for example). But when it's literally just a grind to get that MC helmet, and I have to unlock 99 other things first before I can get what I actually want, I don't believe that's a great progression system.

It's something yes, which is better than what we had before. Is it better than Halo 5's system? Sure, since you know what you're unlocking rather than it being random. But I'd much prefer to be able to store my season points and unlock what I want when I want, even if some items like MC's helmet is worth more points than others.

Side note, but I don't really understand why we have points when everything is in order for you anyway. 

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11 minutes ago, JordanB said:

Wouldn't the unlock system be a lot better if we could choose what we wanted? When things are unlocked at a specific level, it seems like those will more likely be chosen because it takes more time to get, rather than it being what you actually want to wear. Which is fine, when it's something you unlocked for doing a specific challenge (like beating Legendary campaign for example). But when it's literally just a grind to get that MC helmet, and I have to unlock 99 other things first before I can get what I actually want, I don't believe that's a great progression system.

It's something yes, which is better than what we had before. Is it better than Halo 5's system? Sure, since you know what you're unlocking rather than it being random. But I'd much prefer to be able to store my season points and unlock what I want when I want, even if some items like MC's helmet is worth more points than others.

Side note, but I don't really understand why we have points when everything is in order for you anyway. 

This system is actually much closer to H5's than Reach's. You play and get points, then you "open" a whole bunch of useless junk and after a massive grind you finally get the piece you want. Of course it's massively better than H5's random packs plus the absence of in-game advantages and microtransactions (thus far at least) paints it in a much better light, but the MCC season stuff is still nowhere close to what people actually asked for.

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5 hours ago, Basu said:

Good changes Hardway. I love KOTH and especially in this game where CTF in MM is busted it's the only gametype besides Assault and Oddball that I can stand.

Few things I noticed:

- Top Blue hill on High Noon needs to be moved or cut as its the closest thing to free hill time I've seen in the game. Put it at top open ramp or something.
- Condemned just needs to be removed from the rotation as it's a BTB map. By the time you reach the hill the enemies usually gained 30-50 points.
- Why aren't we playing King on Zealot, Asylum (should btw get replaced by a proper Sanc remake if Duck has any say in that) and possibly Pinnacle? Way better maps than what it's in rotation currently.
- Score limit of 150 is a joke.

I think a score of 200 be fine 

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I know there's a work around the push-to-talk for controller, but might as well post this anyway.

If anybody wants to bind the push-to-talk to a controller button or rebind the key for keyboard, go to steam, right click on mcc, click set launch options and add "-INPUTINI=input.ini" (no quotes)

Launch MCC until you hit the menu and then close it.

Navigate to where ever Halo reach is installed and go to Halo Reach\mcc\binaries\win64

Find the input.ini and edit it and add a new line and paste ActionMappings=(ActionName="PushToTalk",bShift=False,bCtrl=False,bAlt=False,bCmd=False,Key=Gamepad_DPad_Up)

you can change the "Key=" to whatever you want.

 

If you want to change the push-to-talk key for keyboard ctrl+f and search for Key=V and change the key to whatever you want.

 

You can rebind multiple things to single keys this way too. I recommend changing the input.ini file to read only after changing something.

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3 hours ago, JordanB said:

Wouldn't the unlock system be a lot better if we could choose what we wanted? When things are unlocked at a specific level, it seems like those will more likely be chosen because it takes more time to get, rather than it being what you actually want to wear. Which is fine, when it's something you unlocked for doing a specific challenge (like beating Legendary campaign for example). But when it's literally just a grind to get that MC helmet, and I have to unlock 99 other things first before I can get what I actually want, I don't believe that's a great progression system.

It's something yes, which is better than what we had before. Is it better than Halo 5's system? Sure, since you know what you're unlocking rather than it being random. But I'd much prefer to be able to store my season points and unlock what I want when I want, even if some items like MC's helmet is worth more points than others.

Side note, but I don't really understand why we have points when everything is in order for you anyway. 

I run a weird gamut on this. On one hand, choosing what I want is fine, on another, I get the incenitivising playtime. I'm coming off the idea the way they push playtime here is unobtrusive and great. Didn't say it was perfect or ideal, but for what they did, it's a great system.

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11 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I run a weird gamut on this. On one hand, choosing what I want is fine, on another, I get the incenitivising playtime. I'm coming off the idea the way they push playtime here is unobtrusive and great. Didn't say it was perfect or ideal, but for what they did, it's a great system.

I think I'd hate this system less if the massive playtime grind was for new things, and not armor that I unlocked 9 years ago via an even longer playtime grind. 

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1 hour ago, Hully said:

I think I'd hate this system less if the massive playtime grind was for new things, and not armor that I unlocked 9 years ago via an even longer playtime grind. 

I think the counter argument is that granting a veteran status when it comes to unlocks would potentially demean the game's replayability since there isn't much of an ulterior goal beyond the game itself, but to be frank I'm not playing to level up the season pass anyhow (especially since I dislike it in the first place) and instead play to simply play Halo. I don't need a pointless unlock system to tell me to play the game that I was going to play anyway.

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9 minutes ago, Three Six Xero said:

I think the counter argument is that granting a veteran status when it comes to unlocks would potentially demean the game's replayability since there isn't much of an ulterior goal beyond the game itself, but to be frank I'm not playing to level up the season pass anyhow (especially since I dislike it in the first place) and instead play to simply play Halo. I don't need a pointless unlock system to tell me to play the game that I was going to play anyway.

Honestly I wasn't even thinking about that, and it's another aspect I don't like. All the MCC I played prior to this update basically counts for nothing in terms of overall progression. People who just bought the game start at the same place as people who already have thousands of hours on the game. 

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15 minutes ago, Hully said:

Honestly I wasn't even thinking about that, and it's another aspect I don't like. All the MCC I played prior to this update basically counts for nothing in terms of overall progression.

You mean my statting for 4 years straight was all for nothing?

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16 minutes ago, Basu said:

You mean my statting for 4 years straight was all for nothing?

More like my years of getting statted on counts for nothing. 

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3 hours ago, Hully said:

I think I'd hate this system less if the massive playtime grind was for new things, and not armor that I unlocked 9 years ago via an even longer playtime grind. 

Well, yeah, that's my thing. It's for a remaster, and the time to grind ratio is insanely reduced and just casual. It's grand.

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10 hours ago, Basu said:

Good changes Hardway. I love KOTH and especially in this game where CTF in MM is busted it's the only gametype besides Assault and Oddball that I can stand.

Few things I noticed:

- Top Blue hill on High Noon needs to be moved or cut as its the closest thing to free hill time I've seen in the game. Put it at top open ramp or something.
- Condemned just needs to be removed from the rotation as it's a BTB map. By the time you reach the hill the enemies usually gained 30-50 points.
- Why aren't we playing King on Zealot, Asylum (should btw get replaced by a proper Sanc remake if Duck has any say in that) and possibly Pinnacle? Way better maps than what it's in rotation currently.
- Score limit of 150 is a joke.

Thanks man. Yeah, KotH is so easy to make work, even in a social setting.

I wasn't a big fan of that Top Blue hill either, but I liked it better than the hill in windows, and we needed something on that side of the map. I didn't want to ask for any new hills to be forged because I wanted this to be as easy to implement as possible. Otherwise, you're right, that would be much better. In the meantime, it's just gonna be really important to have 2 separate angles on top blue to kill the guy hiding behind the pillar. If you can get that, it's actually pretty tough to get time in that hill.

I wanted to make all my requests very reasonable and agreeable, so I steered away from asking for certain maps to be cut/added. I want to see how Condemned plays with a more intuitive hill rotation before we cut it. I'm inclined to agree with you, but it could be one of those things where it fills a niche role in the map rotation and forces you to play a different style. You get less chances to siege the hill, so you gotta make good, coordinated use out of the chances you do get. Idk, I'm not ready to give up on it yet. I do think it's a crying shame that Condemned isn't in BTB where it belongs, because that map would be way more fun in 8v8. And I agree with adding Zealot, Asylum and Pinnacle, but one thing at a time.

I like 200 more also, but that's actually an issue I encounter a lot of resistance on in that Reclaimers chat. And tbh I see where they're coming from. There's a lot of one-sided games in Social, and playing to 200 can be pretty brutal in a bad game. I think that 150 score limit will have a lot more mileage when the rest of the settings make sense around it. When we cut out stupid ass hills like Rock Garden on Powerhouse where you can get 50 seconds almost every time, that will help. So will the hill not moving all the way across the map and giving charity time to the team that couldn't hold the previous hill.

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