Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

[Shekkles]

1 hour ago, BigShow36 said:

not fix any of those actual issues, but instead add more random shit into the mix in an effort to fix the core issues. 

Too real.

[Arlong]

1 hour ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Putting a jump from courtyard to the enemy carbine on Sanc just underlines how clueless they are imo.

Never thought that was a bad addition, the waterfall was pretty useful. 

[Basu]

7 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Never thought that was a bad addition, the waterfall was pretty useful. 

It all boils down to this:

4 hours ago, znot said:

this is my biggest problem with abilities and 343's new halo. Before you were forced to use the paths of the map, that lead to natural engagements cause EVERYONE had to follow the path. Now with sprint, thrust and slide, we can ignore 90% of the routes and jump jump window to top mid on midship now. Leading to less natural engagements. It's no wonder removing the abilities makes even the shittiest of maps better, the flow of engagement comes back as were forced to use the path of the maps.

Sanc already has plenty of routes to traverse mid and attack people holding ring. Why do we need another easy way to get up top? It also weakens car to near useless because now it's impossible to take cover further down the ramp when you're weak as anyone from court can just ez jump up and blain you.

The waterfalls are such a dumb gimmick. Seriously why is that needed?

[Warlord Wossman]

The positioning on the map is rather fine tuned, add a jump from court to car and a lift from shotty to S2 and people can pop up on top anywhere any second, it just makes the map feel more random and FFA like when people can move around like that.
Honestly if you want to play the map in FFA it's fine to have those but for team modes you want to keep top less accessable so teams can control it better.

[Snipe Three]

I'm sort of hesitant to call a lot of these jumps the worst thing ever because in the natural progression of Halo players we're at the point where a lot of people can reliably spring jump and you might be surprised what kind of routes that adds like P1 to P2 for example or Jumping straight up to car in Reach or straight out of the base on Beaver Creek
 

Weird jumps and mechanics like this that people probably don't even think about/know about. 
 

or this. There's a lot of crazy routes that have existed for awhile people just generally weren't good enough/didn't know they could do it

[Warlord Wossman]

You cannot spring jump from court to car in Reach and you shouldn't be able to. Good maps are designed with spring jumps in mind so they cannot throw the balance off. Just because people are getting better at movement mechanics doesn't mean we should throw level design philosophy overboard.

[Basu]

33 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

I'm sort of hesitant to call a lot of these jumps the worst thing ever because in the natural progression of Halo players we're at the point where a lot of people can reliably spring jump and you might be surprised what kind of routes that adds like P1 to P2 for example or Jumping straight up to car in Reach or straight out of the base on Beaver Creek
 

Weird jumps and mechanics like this that people probably don't even think about/know about. 
 

or this. There's a lot of crazy routes that have existed for awhile people just generally weren't good enough/didn't know they could do it

These are still skill jumps even if more and more people can do them. No one says S1 to S2 on Guardian is a stupid addition, because it's so hard to pull off. If you're spring jumping court to car and you fuck up you're probably dead or at least just wasted 5 seconds where your team was down a man.

[box]

hey all,

is MCC on PC going to have classic halo 2 or just the anniversary edition, and im also curious about halo 1. i cant find any clear info googling it. if it doesnt have these theres no point for me buying it

[Mow]

11 minutes ago, box said:

hey all,

is MCC on PC going to have classic halo 2 or just the anniversary edition, and im also curious about halo 1. i cant find any clear info googling it. if it doesnt have these theres no point for me buying it

 

MCC PC will have Reach,CE,H2+H2A,H3+H3ODST and H4, they are releasing them one by one in that order starting with Reach.

[box]

Just now, Mow said:

 

MCC PC will have Reach,CE,H2+H2A,H3+H3ODST and H4, they are releasing them one by one in that order starting with Reach.

thanks for your response, i appreciate it! here is hoping that the staggered launches make it better than the catastrophe back in 2014

[Mow]

5 minutes ago, box said:

thanks for your response, i appreciate it! here is hoping that the staggered launches make it better than the catastrophe back in 2014

No problem, and we can only hope.

[znot]

6 hours ago, Arlong said:

I don’t disagree, but all the jumps did was add extra paths. It’s not like these were super hard to predict which I think is your problem with all of this.

It's not the predictability. It's the chaos it makes. Have you played bomb on warlock? anyone can just jump up and disarm/arm when they please. No more strategy to it. You're constantly having to go back to your base and kill these idiots.

[Hard Way]

17 hours ago, BigShow36 said:

Clearly you've never designed a Halo game, because if you had you'd know that the only way to fix poor weapon balance and map design is to not fix any of those actual issues, but instead add more random shit into the mix in an effort to fix the core issues. This always works unless you actually look at the results. 

343’s Sandbox lead on his first day:

[BigShow36]

On 11/19/2019 at 5:09 PM, Shekkles said:

A swear a lot of hate for Halo 2 could have been avoided if it was BR starts. SMG starts is quite literally unplayable. If the enemy has all the BRs it feels like you're an NPC in someone else's game.

Also 2001 and 2004 we're very different times. Website communities were becoming more mainstream instead of fringe and sites like halo2sucks came about. 

Additionally Halo 1 didn't have a prequel to compare it to, Halo 2 did. That's a big thing to take into account. That will immediately divide some fans. 

Not saying either is superior but there are more factors than just "thing bad".

We're still suffering the ramifications of SMG starts to this day. People have convinced themselves that SMG or AR starts are the best way to play because Bungie did it that way 20 years ago (who later actually admitted how bad it was, which for Bungie is unheard of). There is literally no other justification, yet every new Halo game the developer insists on starting everyone out with a shit weapon and it takes months and months of the same arguments to finally have them cave and let people start with a utility weapon. 

[Riddler]

Bungie admitting ar starts was bad then went right ahead and did it again in h3 then again in reach

[Mr Grim]

1 hour ago, Riddler said:

Bungie admitting ar starts was bad then went right ahead and did it again in h3 then again in reach

They admitted smg starts were bad and then made the AR better in h3 and reach as a result. It wasnt ideal but it was certainly better than the smg.

[Hully]

I wonder if H2, H3, and Reach had BR/BR/and DMR starts if there would still be such a divide between the casual and competitive scene. I feel like it's bigger now than it ever was before. If we'd all been using the same utility weapons since the earliest days of Halo on XBL, I'm curious if the rift between the two sides would be so large. 

[Basu]

12 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

They admitted smg starts were bad and then made the AR better in h3 and reach as a result. It wasnt ideal but it was certainly better than the smg.

Yes this is typical Bungie/343 bullshit. I remember Josh Holmes doing damage control after the H5 leak showed ADS: "There is no penalty to hipfire", but there's a bonus to scoping. Technically not a lie but damn close to it. Same for admitting "SMG starts was a bad idea" just to double down on AR starts in the next two games. The best part was Postums from 343 defending both SMG and AR starts last year because people told 343 to fuck right off with this nonsense for the MCC relanch. "There is a substantial part of the community that wants and expects SMG starts to be there" lmao.

[Mr Grim]

Maybe they should adapt

[Snipe Three]

40 minutes ago, Hully said:

I wonder if H2, H3, and Reach had BR/BR/and DMR starts if there would still be such a divide between the casual and competitive scene. I feel like it's bigger now than it ever was before. If we'd all been using the same utility weapons since the earliest days of Halo on XBL, I'm curious if the rift between the two sides would be so large. 

I really think the fix is just making the AR both good and skill based. I guarantee you that it would jedi mind trick some people who insist on AR starts into wanting the competitive/skill based starting options without realizing it. It doesn't have to be as dumbed down as the AR has been since CE. Even the worst of the worst can use the ARs in CoD for example and they mostly shoot straight if you're actually aiming. Obviously it would need to be a little different than the CoD guns but the point is mostly that its okay to give bad players weapons that they actually need to aim with even though bungie/343 seem really scared of doing that. I really have no idea why we keep including this terrible gun in the sandbox that basically equates to a really shitty shotgun

[The Tyco]

1 minute ago, Snipe Three said:

I really think the fix is just making the AR both good and skill based. I guarantee you that it would jedi mind trick some people who insist on AR starts into wanting the competitive/skill based starting options without realizing it

Difficult to pull off when too many in the competitive community ostracize Autos on principle without consideration.

[znot]

42 minutes ago, Basu said:

Yes this is typical Bungie/343 bullshit. I remember Josh Holmes doing damage control after the H5 leak showed ADS: "There is no penalty to hipfire", but there's a bonus to scoping. Technically not a lie but damn close to it. Same for admitting "SMG starts was a bad idea" just to double down on AR starts in the next two games. The best part was Postums from 343 defending both SMG and AR starts last year because people told 343 to fuck right off with this nonsense for the MCC relanch. "There is a substantial part of the community that wants and expects SMG starts to be there" lmao.

No bungie has justification, they're actually a smart dev. Their reasoning behind bringing the AR back was the melee wasn't used much while dual weilding SMGS cause SMGS were only viable dual weidling. Their solution bring back the AR so ppl could melee again.

 

Though after listening to it again, it does slightly sound like PR bullshit. maybe I'll retract the above, but I certainly get their logic more than 343's. 

 

 

[Riddler]

57 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

They admitted smg starts were bad and then made the AR better in h3 and reach as a result. It wasnt ideal but it was certainly better than the smg.

Dude no. Like if u wanted to you could 50-0 a team with br starts of the same caliber. The ar cannot contest a sniper at all and snipe is on almost every map. And ik the br in h3 wasnt much better. 

[Riddler]

1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

[Snipe Three]

9 minutes ago, The Tyco said:

Difficult to pull off when too many in the competitive community ostracize Autos on principle without consideration.

That is a problem too but a relatively minor one compared to the hordes of social/default slayer kids. I think its an easier transition from that direction for many competitive players because they'll just inherently feel the difference and recognize people being out played/shot. It would admittedly be a pretty hard sell for the very casual competitive crowd though

As I've been thinking about it the one problem from a balancing perspective is actually how good it would be for descoping players. There are a few options to balance or try to fix it if it really was a problem once it was in a game but it really is something where people would need to play the game and iterate to figure out how to make it work