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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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3 hours ago, Basu said:

Where are Fixtheaiming343 and Fixaimsorry when we need them? 

I’m here, I go on twitch all the time. I was in nadeds stream. My name is fixtheaiming343 on twitch. Everyone loves my name.

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1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Really interesting seeing as how you haven't made a peep about the Flood.

See the flood is interesting, you only find out their origin through the lore, but to a gamer only perspective, this is some weird version of zombies. 

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48 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Really interesting seeing as how you haven't made a peep about the Flood.

The Flood is weird on their own, and their own can of worms. I'm speaking on the Covenant because of their relevance in the trilogy. My point isn't on the Flood.

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1 minute ago, TheIcePrincess said:

The Flood is weird on their own, and their own can of worms. I'm speaking on the Covenant because of their relevance in the trilogy. My point isn't on the Flood.

The games already establish the flood anyway as this big threat that needs to be destroyed. You know that their goal is to consume everything there is. 

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2 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

The primary antagonist of the game was Guilty Spark.

Because the game was called "Halo".

All these comparisons between the didact in 4 and the covenant and CE and yet they don't even fill the same roll in their respective campaigns. The covenant are a tertiary antagonist while the didact is the primary antagonist.

 

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1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

All these comparisons between the didact in 4 and the covenant and CE and yet they don't even fill the same roll in their respective campaigns. The covenant are a tertiary antagonist while the didact is the primary antagonist

How do you figure. You spend the most time with the Covenant, the game's story is driven by their actions and you're acting because of them. The Flood come out because of them, and Guilty Spark acts how he does with the Flood as a result of the Covenant. The Covenant are the primary antagonists, lol.

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20 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

How do you figure. You spend the most time with the Covenant, the game's story is driven by their actions and you're acting because of them. The Flood come out because of them, and Guilty Spark acts how he does with the Flood as a result of the Covenant. The Covenant are the primary antagonists, lol.

Noo the flood definitely are the main antagonist. Heck’s they’re the more serious threat. It even gets to a point where the covenant and humanity side with one another to defeat the greater threat.

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21 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Noo the flood definitely are the main antagonist. Heck’s they’re the more serious threat. It even gets to a point where the covenant and humanity side with one another to defeat the greater threat.

Seriousness and relevance aren't the same. Despite the Flood's long term worse impact lore-wise, they're not more relevant than the Covenant. They don't take any spotlight until AFTER the Covenant's gone in the third game, at that. And, like with the above, every game's plot is driven by the Covenant, with the Flood acting as curveballs to a scenario.

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51 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

How do you figure. You spend the most time with the Covenant, the game's story is driven by their actions and you're acting because of them. The Flood come out because of them, and Guilty Spark acts how he does with the Flood as a result of the Covenant. The Covenant are the primary antagonists, lol.

The importance of them steadily decreases throughout the course of the story. You are describing a mcguffin. Not a true antagonist. This is within the context of just CE btw.

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1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

The importance of them steadily decreases throughout the course of the story. You are describing a mcguffin. Not a true antagonist. This is within the context of just CE btw.

Okay, but that's the thing. It takes three games within the original trilogy, and technically the last two levels of the third game to truly overshadow them in some way. Reason being the empire is mostly gone at that point. But before that, again, everything is still centered on them, with the Flood and Forerunner characters being easy side-characters who are recurring but rarely if ever more prominent or relevant to the plot.

Although, if you refer to my argument on the Covenant's motive being the macguffin to CE contextually, I'd counter by saying macguffins are generally insignificant on their own, whereas the basis for the entire series even occurring as it did is not that.

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8 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Okay, but that's the thing. It takes three games within the original trilogy, and technically the last two levels of the third game to truly overshadow them in some way. Reason being the empire is mostly gone at that point. But before that, again, everything is still centered on them, with the Flood and Forerunner characters being easy side-characters who are recurring but rarely if ever more prominent or relevant to the plot.

Although, if you refer to my argument on the Covenant's motive being the macguffin to CE contextually, I'd counter by saying macguffins are generally insignificant on their own, whereas the basis for the entire series even occurring as it did is not that.

The problem is that I disagree that they are even the reason for the series existing, as you say.

The covenant are more often the AI in the characters way, but this does not mean they are the biggest threat. Or that they carry the greatest implications. They are a window into much greater aspects of the story such as the flood, halo and it's secrets. Think of it this way; there's always something greater hanging just above the covenant standing in front of you. This goes back to the very first shot of the series, in which the camera shows the POA arriving at halo, showing it very clearly and then shifting the focus to the covenant. And once you arrive on the ring, the main plot element gradually becomes the ring itself, which then leads to the flood and then 343 guilty spark. 

I'm also like 90% sure Frankie himself described the covenant as a macguffin during promotion for halo 4. Saying something to the effect of "the covenant have always been this sort of macguffin."

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I just played three 5v6 "ranked" Invasion matches in the insider. Literally started 5v6. This company man.

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19 minutes ago, Warlord Wossman said:

They are called 3v4 industries for a reason.

It's so funny. Basic shit like even teams and responsive aiming are apparently not to be taken for granted anymore.

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16 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

The problem is that I disagree that they are even the reason for the series existing, as you say.

The covenant are more often the AI in the characters way, but this does not mean they are the biggest threat. Or that they carry the greatest implications. They are a window into much greater aspects of the story such as the flood, halo and it's secrets. Think of it this way; there's always something greater hanging just above the covenant standing in front of you. This goes back to the very first shot of the series, in which the camera shows the POA arriving at halo, showing it very clearly and then shifting the focus to the covenant. And once you arrive on the ring, the main plot element gradually becomes the ring itself, which then leads to the flood and then 343 guilty spark. 

I'm also like 90% sure Frankie himself described the covenant as a macguffin during promotion for halo 4. Saying something to the effect of "the covenant have always been this sort of macguffin."

If you wanted me to be more specific, I referred to the games. The Covenant are the game's driving force (Up until 4-onwards). The fact their presence and actions affect the story the most make them the primary antagonist even if bigger things existed or exist, like, say, the Didact and his armies. Or the Flood. I would say that just because those things exist doesn't mean the Covenant loses positional power, there, NOR does the fact the Covenant is the most relevant make them the largest threat. They're just the ones we're dealing with. Even in CE, yeah, the fight focuses on a ring. But you're fighting to keep the Covenant from using it, and then shifting to stopping the Flood from escaping it. It gradually focuses on other aspects as the remnants of the Forerunners and Flood become tertiary antagonists. Secondary but not inherently or fully relevant to you and the primary antagonists. 

 

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22 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

If you wanted me to be more specific, I referred to the games. The Covenant are the game's driving force (Up until 4-onwards). The fact their presence and actions affect the story the most make them the primary antagonist even if bigger things existed or exist, like, say, the Didact and his armies. Or the Flood. I would say that just because those things exist doesn't mean the Covenant loses positional power, there, NOR does the fact the Covenant is the most relevant make them the largest threat. They're just the ones we're dealing with. Even in CE, yeah, the fight focuses on a ring. But you're fighting to keep the Covenant from using it, and then shifting to stopping the Flood from escaping it. It gradually focuses on other aspects as the remnants of the Forerunners and Flood become tertiary antagonists. Secondary but not inherently or fully relevant to you and the primary antagonists. 

 

I feel like I've already responded to these arguments, but it is what is I guess. I don't really have any more to say that I haven't already. I guess I'll agree to disagree with you on this one.

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1 minute ago, Mr Grim said:

I feel like I've already responded to these arguments, but it is what is I guess. I don't really have any more to say that I haven't already. I guess I'll agree to disagree with you on this one.

At this point, yeah, probably. Tis where it ends, I guess.

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7 hours ago, Basu said:

It's so funny. Basic shit like even teams and responsive aiming are apparently not to be taken for granted anymore.

IKR. Most games have that, but 343 well they’re special.

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On 11/7/2019 at 4:21 PM, TheIcePrincess said:

I didn't say it needed to have fully fleshed out lore. That's the least I'd expect from a game that is the first in a non-series (at its time). I'm just saying a basic motivation goes a long-ass way in telling a basic story. Again, you're focusing on the fight for the Halo, not the context well before it that is a part of the game, and what we enter on. It isn't a side note thing I'm bitching about. It's literally the first lines of dialogue, a conversation, and the whole circumstance leading into the Chief's awakening that opens up these never-elaborated on points. And it isn't just extra insight. It's literally pertaining to why things are happening. Like why aliens are hauling ass after us with so much fervor after an attack we know nothing on beforehand. Something crucial when you have no build up and you're launched into the middle of a fight for the first time in a new universe.

To simplify, the Covenant worshipping the Forerunners, and fighting for the Halo has nothing to do with the fact they were merking you for years beforehand. So the entire first level has no actual context behind it. Nor does every other Covenant-instigated fight during the game. 

However, I would agree. We don't need to have an insane lore-base to have a fine story. Things can be simple and great. BUT. We need to have the basic story work. And there are things that are left out of the story that result in CE being a lot of "nothing" because you don't have basic context. Which is important. Again, don't forget the big twist for CE comes in AFTER the Library. That being the basic backbone of why we're even fighting for it.

If it doesn't affect the overall plot of CE, which it doesn't, then it is a side note. I understand the want for knowledge into the what is happening and why, but thats all it is a want. Outside of them mentioning Reach the only way you'd find out that covenant had been attacking humanity for years is if you read The Fall of Reach. 

You aren't even introduced to the Forerunners or the fact that the Covenant are worshiping them until you are half way through the campaign. There is no context for anything and they explain it in the opening cutscene. "Did we outrun them?" "I think you know the answer to that". They get ready for battle because the covenant beat them to Halo. The whole sense of the opening game is the urgency to survive. Not who, what, when, where, why, how. 

On 11/7/2019 at 8:08 PM, TheIcePrincess said:

How do you figure. You spend the most time with the Covenant, the game's story is driven by their actions and you're acting because of them. The Flood come out because of them, and Guilty Spark acts how he does with the Flood as a result of the Covenant. The Covenant are the primary antagonists, lol.

Screen time doesn't = primary antagonist. Everything after the Flood is discovered is how to stop them from spreading. Even if the Covenant caused the flood to be released that doesn't mean they are still the primary antagonist. 

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CE is about stopping the flood.

 

Halo 2 is about stopping the Covenant from activating the ring.

 

Halo 3 is about stopping both.

 

They are both primary antagonists. 

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24 minutes ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

CE is about stopping the flood.

 

Halo 2 is about stopping the Covenant from activating the ring.

 

Halo 3 is about stopping both.

 

They are both primary antagonists. 

Eh I’d say 3 is the gravemind, but I’ve been speaking in the context of CE alone.

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Man mcc insider is meant to get an update  fixing issues(specifics have not been mentioned but most assume mouse aiming will be one of these) we really need this update. I don’t hate using a controller but I prefer my G wireless pro! 

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On 11/7/2019 at 8:54 PM, TheIcePrincess said:

Seriousness and relevance aren't the same. Despite the Flood's long term worse impact lore-wise, they're not more relevant than the Covenant. They don't take any spotlight until AFTER the Covenant's gone in the third game, at that. And, like with the above, every game's plot is driven by the Covenant, with the Flood acting as curveballs to a scenario.

There’s plenty of movies with similar scenarios where the good guys are fighting the bad guys to only reveal the bigger threat.

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11 hours ago, Nokt said:

If it doesn't affect the overall plot of CE, which it doesn't, then it is a side note. I understand the want for knowledge into the what is happening and why, but thats all it is a want. Outside of them mentioning Reach the only way you'd find out that covenant had been attacking humanity for years is if you read The Fall of Reach. 

You aren't even introduced to the Forerunners or the fact that the Covenant are worshiping them until you are half way through the campaign. There is no context for anything and they explain it in the opening cutscene. "Did we outrun them?" "I think you know the answer to that". They get ready for battle because the covenant beat them to Halo. The whole sense of the opening game is the urgency to survive. Not who, what, when, where, why, how. 

Screen time doesn't = primary antagonist. Everything after the Flood is discovered is how to stop them from spreading. Even if the Covenant caused the flood to be released that doesn't mean they are still the primary antagonist. 

They literally mention the Human-Covenant war's 30 year span in the manual of the game. You would buy the game and have this information on one of the front pages. There's a fuckton of implications with that that they don't bother speaking on. If it WAS just the novels, I could maybe understand completely nullifying this, but they make a point to heavily reference novel events, and events we hadn't even actually seen in depth yet (Including the START of the war), but not explain why any of it went down. Of course all this is, is a "want". I WANT this story to be more concise and explained. Likewise, you don't need to have an infodump in the opening level. As I said, it'd be lazier, or rather, lacking in creativity, but have a text-scroll pre-game. ODST did it, and it was fine, and would "adequately" fill people in on previous events or what's happening, now.

I didn't just focus on screen time for the antagonist, either. I spoke more so on how the plots are driven by the Covenant over anything. Yeah, the Flood becomes an issue with long-term potential repercussion. But they become an issue BECAUSE of the Covenant. You arrive at Halo in desperation because of the Covenant, you find a way to stop the Flood because of the Covenant, you try and stop the rings from activating because of the Covenant, you become wary allies WITH the Flood because of the Covenant, hell, you becomes wary allies with the Covenant because of the Covenant, lmao. For the game's context, it all boils back down to them. I still don't think a "larger threat" makes the Flood for example, the primary antagonist. They have worse repercussions for us, but you would still wanna destroy or stop the Halo in CE, regardless of the Flood threat, you'd still wanna stop the ring's activation in Halo 2, you'd still wanna get to the Ark and control it, or destroy it in Halo 3. All of this would be done regardless of the Flood. The Flood is just a tension-raiser at this point. Tertiary. A threat, but ironically enough not "the" threat. Mostly because of weird handling.

 

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From what I remember the only reason the players go to the ark was because Cortana said there was a way to stop the flood on it. Otherwise they were content to stay on Earth and fend off the rest of the flood from high charity.

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