Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

[S0UL FLAME]

6 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

 

[Hard Way]

I love you Soul, but that’s a real “Well ahctually...” right there.

[Mow]

1 hour ago, Boyo said:

Reverse bloom on an automatic weapon.  Fire longer to become more accurate.

I was actually thinking about this idea yesterday, specifically on the AR, but then I thought that the magazine size might become an issue so why not make a chain-gun power weapon? it would start out spraying bullets sort of like the CE AR but as the barrel spins faster and faster the spread gets smaller and the fire rate increases until you pretty much have a beam of bullet which would function something like a sentinel beam, didn't think into it much deeper than that though. Also you would hold this gun in first person like Doom instead of 3rd person like the Halo 3 detachable turrets.

[Mr Grim]

We know spread was in halo CE. Bloom is not how I'd describe the inaccuracy of auto fire. It was just random extreme spread. It doesn't progress like bloom does. FWIR it's completely random in the original.

[Fixaimingsorry]

It’s not like bloom is entirely bad. I understand this dislike for needing to pace your shots. Yes there’s instances where not pacing will benefit, but that isn’t the case every time. Bloom is a lot more effective in longer ranged battles. I found 85% bloom was far more forgiving and you wouldn’t need to pace as much as you would on vanilla. 

[Riddler]

8 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

It’s not like bloom is entirely bad. I understand this dislike for needing to pace your shots. Yes there’s instances where not pacing will benefit, but that isn’t the case every time. Bloom is a lot more effective in longer ranged battles. I found 85% bloom was far more forgiving and you wouldn’t need to pace as much as you would on vanilla. 

Pacing is skillful, in a vacuum.

but in reach, and any version of halo, it's not skillful because you CAN WIN by not pacing.

if you spammed, and your bullet disappeared, fine, it's 100% skillful. that's not what happens in any halo. 

[TheIcePrincess]

5 hours ago, Mow said:

I was actually thinking about this idea yesterday, specifically on the AR, but then I thought that the magazine size might become an issue so why not make a chain-gun power weapon? it would start out spraying bullets sort of like the CE AR but as the barrel spins faster and faster the spread gets smaller and the fire rate increases until you pretty much have a beam of bullet which would function something like a sentinel beam, didn't think into it much deeper than that though. Also you would hold this gun in first person like Doom instead of 3rd person like the Halo 3 detachable turrets.

Or just have a sentinel beam that takes some semblance of skill, lol.

[Mow]

2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Or just have a sentinel beam that takes some semblance of skill, lol.

Was more of just a throwaway idea more than anything, but I would at least make it so that it doesn't have any random bullet spread, the problem is how you would go about doing that. But yes, I am also in favor of a sentinel beam that takes skill, it's an underutilized weapon in comp Halo imo.

[Boyo]

Sentinel Beam

 

This hitscan weapon can be toggled between “Modulated” and “Amplified” mode.  Shield doors act like a mirror, reflecting the weapon’s beam.

 

In Modulated mode, it fires a continuous beam that damages infantry and gradually cooks vehicle occupants without damaging the vehicle itself.  Its battery will overheat if continuously fired for too long.

 

In Amplified mode, the user can charge then fire a short duration blast that kills any impacted players and destroys any impacted vehicles.  The blast can pass through multiple players and vehicles with no reduction in damage.

[Vyrst]

7 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

It’s not like bloom is entirely bad. I understand this dislike for needing to pace your shots. Yes there’s instances where not pacing will benefit, but that isn’t the case every time. Bloom is a lot more effective in longer ranged battles. I found 85% bloom was far more forgiving and you wouldn’t need to pace as much as you would on vanilla. 

What is wrong with you. You reside in a void of credibility over your fucking Foaming perpetual Apologism over bad mechanics. There is skill nuance to most bad design implementations. THAT DOESNT MEAN IT SHOULD BE THERE. 

Reach is my favorite Halo game i dont care. Forge World and Custom Firefight literally fucks on the rest of this franchise.

BUT I WILL STILL smack 343 in the face if they dont make v7 global. Fucking flip switch difficulty 

[Cursed Lemon]

Once again, bloom is not a skill mechanic, it's a balancing mechanic - one that was and continues to be completely unnecessary when applied to Halo's utility weapons. 

[Fixaimingsorry]

5 hours ago, Vyrst said:

What is wrong with you. You reside in a void of credibility over your fucking Foaming perpetual Apologism over bad mechanics. There is skill nuance to most bad design implementations. THAT DOESNT MEAN IT SHOULD BE THERE. 

Reach is my favorite Halo game i dont care. Forge World and Custom Firefight literally fucks on the rest of this franchise.

BUT I WILL STILL smack 343 in the face if they dont make v7 global. Fucking flip switch difficulty 

Well have fun with that mentality. You’re a fool of you think v7 across the board has a chance in hell. 

[Fixaimingsorry]

3 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Once again, bloom is not a skill mechanic, it's a balancing mechanic - one that was and continues to be completely unnecessary when applied to Halo's utility weapons. 

It doesn’t help that no one here ever takes into account what’s “balanced for weapons” but what’s skillful. P.S. these aren’t  the same things. 

[duckbacon]

5 hours ago, Vyrst said:

What is wrong with you. You reside in a void of credibility over your fucking Foaming perpetual Apologism over bad mechanics. There is skill nuance to most bad design implementations. THAT DOESNT MEAN IT SHOULD BE THERE. 

Reach is my favorite Halo game i dont care. Forge World and Custom Firefight literally fucks on the rest of this franchise.

BUT I WILL STILL smack 343 in the face if they dont make v7 global. Fucking flip switch difficulty 

[Cursed Lemon]

13 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

It doesn’t help that no one here ever takes into account what’s “balanced for weapons” but what’s skillful. P.S. these are the same things. 

I mean I literally just clarified that they're not the same thing...

[MultiLockOn]

39 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I mean I literally just clarified that they're not the same thing...

Really? Curious what makes you think that.

[VinnyMendoza]

16 hours ago, Larry Sizemore said:

> HEE HEE HAW HAW THE CE PISTOL HAZ BLOOM IF U HOLD DOWN THE TRIGGER! CHECKMATE, BOOMERS!

> Literally nobody holds down the trigger.

Seriously wasn't this shit settled in like 2011, at the latest?

CE has bloom even tapping the trigger... That's what he's talking about (I think). NHE removed it last year.

@S0UL FLAME I see your point but most CE players voted to remove spread in NHE. They recognized it was broken and changed it. 

[Larry Sizemore]

26 minutes ago, VinnyMendoza said:

CE has bloom even tapping the trigger... That's what he's talking about (I think). NHE removed it last year.

No it doesn't. Spread yes (minor spread at that), bloom no.  And no, they are not the same.

[Fixaimingsorry]

2 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I mean I literally just clarified that they're not the same thing...

Sorry my bad I meant to type “aren’t” 

[Fixaimingsorry]

2 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Really? Curious what makes you think that.

Skill and balance don’t go always hand in hand. Every game does this. They do think of the skill but they take into account is it balanced? A game should reward skilled players, but don’t make it so it’s neRly impossible for someone less skilled to kill them. I’ve always found h4s sandbox to be perfect in halo. ARS were strong but not so strong that if you’re using a precision weapon that you’re screwed. 

[MultiLockOn]

26 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Skill and balance don’t go always hand in hand. Every game does this. They do think of the skill but they take into account is it balanced? A game should reward skilled players, but don’t make it so it’s neRly impossible for someone less skilled to kill them. I’ve always found h4s sandbox to be perfect in halo. ARS were strong but not so strong that if you’re using a precision weapon that you’re screwed. 

No they don't go hand in hand but they should. Basically the bane of every complaint ever made in the history of video games can be rooted to something being too strong for the difficulty required using it, not on the merit of strength on its own.  Everything, and I mean everything should have its direct functionality and impact tied to its difficulty of use.  Otherwise you're just making rock paper scissors.

[Larry Sizemore]

Picking up a shotgun on Derelict should automatically uninstall your game.

[Cursed Lemon]

2 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Really? Curious what makes you think that.

It's pretty much exactly what I said here about projectile: 

Quote

Missing shots at long range with projectile weapons due to the unpredictability of the enemy's movement is a matter of weapon balance rather than a matter of skill. Contrary to the claims of some, you cannot "consistently dome noobs across HeH", and the implicit question there is should you be able to? It goes down a long rabbit hole of whether it's good for the game to have actual battles at that range. 

I think it might've been @Hard Way who once described bloom as a "speed bump", and that's precisely what it is. Skill doesn't live inside a mechanic that introduces randomness, and when a game mechanic encourages you to not do something, it becomes a matter of balance. Now in the context of Halo, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and that's why bloom is so incredibly shit here. If the DMR in Reach was a shotgun-tier map pickup that killed in two headshots, bloom might've been appropriate as a mechanic that demanded players wait before taking that second or third shot. As the main gun? Well, we saw what happened. 

38 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Sorry my bad I meant to type “aren’t” 

Gotcha.

[Fixaimingsorry]

1 hour ago, MultiLockOn said:

No they don't go hand in hand but they should. Basically the bane of every complaint ever made in the history of video games can be rooted to something being too strong for the difficulty required using it, not on the merit of strength on its own.  Everything, and I mean everything should have its direct functionality and impact tied to its difficulty of use.  Otherwise you're just making rock paper scissors.

Skill is usually tied into something that’s subjective. In a shooting game(average one) skill is usually tied to the recoil of a gun. The more recoil the greater the power. Also complaints such as those are worthless, they’re whiners whining about being killed by a rocket launcher or something of the sort. Weapon balancing takes two things into account it’s power and difficulty. In halo the sniper is a difficult weapon(in h4&5 not so much) so it’s power is great. But an AUTO is easy to use so it’s power is usually high or low. But it’s hard to please the competitive crowds when guns like an AR that takes no skill is equal to a precision weapon whom does take skill. 

With that said about the h4&5 sniper, what players are picking this weapon up and going off with it? Is it nobody BKS or someone who’s already a decently good player? 

[Mr Grim]

4 hours ago, VinnyMendoza said:

CE has bloom even tapping the trigger... That's what he's talking about (I think). NHE removed it last year.

@S0UL FLAME I see your point but most CE players voted to remove spread in NHE. They recognized it was broken and changed it. 

I'm pretty sure this got debunked.