Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

[TarpEH]

who here actually has the new MCC beta?

[Moa]

who here actually has the new MCC beta?

hi me

[Basu]

who here actually has the new MCC beta?

Yes

[Ethereal Nights]

It really doesn't, and as part of my undying love for the campaign, I'm obliged to defend it.

 

Their relationship could've gone a number of ways, and what we got was probably the best version. Halo 4 brought up the ethics of the Spartan II program, whether or not Chief is more man or machine, personal struggle over world-ending threats—and these ideas echo throughout the campaign. It keeps reminding you both in dialogue and in character reactions the inevitable doom that is to come, till eventually Chief talks to Lasky about being more than a machine. Halo 4 has actual narrative flow, where scenes are appropriately timed to fit character motivations and themes, while other Halo games seem to not give a shit. Halo 4 also has character development, that is, its characters actually remember and reflect on recent events. I agree the whole Librarian thing was confusing, but that's about the only thing they executed poorly. The Didact was a pretty great villain. He's far more threatening than the Prophets, and unlike the Gravemind he actually does stuff. And if you're lore-savvy he's a tragic villain whom you can easily sympathize with.

 

In a nutshell, what makes Halo 4's story great is that it focused on individual struggle, while other Halo games relied more or less on "save the world" tropes. The only other game that comes close is ODST, but that's ruined by some pacing issues and underdeveloped plot points.

 

Pretty much all of this. Halo always relied on great presentation instead of narrative. Which is fine in a video game of course. Games don't need complex narratives to succeed. But Halo 4's campaign is probably the most well rounded.

[Snipe Three]

who here actually has the new MCC beta?

A lot of us 

[Turkeyyy Lips]

who here actually has the new MCC beta?

Here

[Apoll0]

halo in hindsight should be one ranked playlist but halo fans are used to this not being the case.

 

So fuck it.  They need to get used to it and you need to start somewhere.  Casuals will bitch that they don't have their ranked and unranked version of Snipers and SWAT and whatever else, then they'll just play the social version anyway and forget about it. This insistence on having duplicated playlists that are basically the same thing just one ranked and one not has stunted having real, actual variety in playlist selection and unnecessarily split populations for far too long.  Labeling the purest competitive list HCS, MLG, Hardcore whatever scares off people so they never even step into it, thus hurting the population for no reason and eliminating the bottom half of the skill levels from the list.  Then on the off chance that once of these players hops in, there is nobody at their skill level to give them a good match and they get duked on.  Fixing the messaging will help make the matchmaking better for lower-tiered players since people won't be afraid to give it a shot right from the get-go. At the same time, competitive players need to be ok with this playlist having more gametypes in it than just what happens to be on the competitive circuit at the time.

 

My only caveat to that is that this needs to be done with proper matchmaking in place as well.  If its still the current "anybody can match anybody" then casuals are going to get fucked.

 

It really doesn't, and as part of my undying love for the campaign, I'm obliged to defend it.

 

Their relationship could've gone a number of ways, and what we got was probably the best version. Halo 4 brought up the ethics of the Spartan II program, whether or not Chief is more man or machine, personal struggle over world-ending threats—and these ideas echo throughout the campaign. It keeps reminding you both in dialogue and in character reactions the inevitable doom that is to come, till eventually Chief talks to Lasky about being more than a machine. Halo 4 has actual narrative flow, where scenes are appropriately timed to fit character motivations and themes, while other Halo games seem to not give a shit. Halo 4 also has character development, that is, its characters actually remember and reflect on recent events. I agree the whole Librarian thing was confusing, but that's about the only thing they executed poorly. The Didact was a pretty great villain. He's far more threatening than the Prophets, and unlike the Gravemind he actually does stuff. And if you're lore-savvy he's a tragic villain whom you can easily sympathize with.

 

In a nutshell, what makes Halo 4's story great is that it focused on individual struggle, while other Halo games relied more or less on "save the world" tropes. The only other game that comes close is ODST, but that's ruined by some pacing issues and underdeveloped plot points.

 

The fact that the whole Chief/Cortana relationship and "what does it mean to be alive" questions were posed and handled adequately, doesn't make the whole campaign good though.  I agree that Halo could use a little more personal stories that aren't just "Gotta save the universe" every time. My complaints about the campaign are only half story related. What could have been a 9/10 campaign ended up being a 5 for me:

 

• The prometheans are a bad enemy.  Annoying to fight, out of left field tron looking m'fers .
• Levels are extremely corridor-shooty.  Even the levels that look more expansive where you could have a variety of combat options really don't because you are surround by giant pits of death.
• They turned the Covi's into generic, personality-less enemies
• The Didact/Librarian relationship and background really really bugs me.  This is probably the biggest "ok 343 fuck you" thing. I might be overemphasizing how poorly this was done, but it should NEVER be necessary for me to read a wiki for an hour to even try to have some semblance of an idea of wtf just happened. The only prior knowledge that may be necessary is that of the other games.  I was pretty much done with the story of the game as soon as the librarian had her little speech.
• Music

The thing is, halo has never had great campaigns.  They have always been average and Halo 4 is no exception it just did the whole character development thing better than prior games but other things worse.  The only truly bad all around halo campaign was Halo 5.  

[BR N00b]

who here actually has the new MCC beta?

Sup yo?

[Supermelee24]

So fuck it. They need to get used to it and you need to start somewhere. Casuals will bitch that they don't have their ranked and unranked version of Snipers and SWAT and whatever else, then they'll just play the social version anyway and forget about it. This insistence on having duplicated playlists that are basically the same thing just one ranked and one not has stunted having real, actual variety in playlist selection and unnecessarily split populations for far too long. Labeling the purest competitive list HCS, MLG, Hardcore whatever scares off people so they never even step into it, thus hurting the population for no reason and eliminating the bottom half of the skill levels from the list. Then on the off chance that once of these players hops in, there is nobody at their skill level to give them a good match and they get duked on. Fixing the messaging will help make the matchmaking better for lower-tiered players since people won't be afraid to give it a shot right from the get-go. At the same time, competitive players need to be ok with this playlist having more gametypes in it than just what happens to be on the competitive circuit at the time.

 

My only caveat to that is that this needs to be done with proper matchmaking in place as well. If its still the current "anybody can match anybody" then casuals are going to get fucked.

 

 

The fact that the whole Chief/Cortana relationship and "what does it mean to be alive" questions were posed and handled adequately, doesn't make the whole campaign good though. I agree that Halo could use a little more personal stories that aren't just "Gotta save the universe" every time. My complaints about the campaign are only half story related. What could have been a 9/10 campaign ended up being a 5 for me:

 

• The prometheans are a bad enemy. Annoying to fight, out of left field tron looking m'fers .
• Levels are extremely corridor-shooty. Even the levels that look more expansive where you could have a variety of combat options really don't because you are surround by giant pits of death.
• They turned the Covi's into generic, personality-less enemies
• The Didact/Librarian relationship and background really really bugs me. This is probably the biggest "ok 343 fuck you" thing. I might be overemphasizing how poorly this was done, but it should NEVER be necessary for me to read a wiki for an hour to even try to have some semblance of an idea of wtf just happened. The only prior knowledge that may be necessary is that of the other games. I was pretty much done with the story of the game as soon as the librarian had her little speech.
• Music

The thing is, halo has never had great campaigns. They have always been average and Halo 4 is no exception it just did the whole character development thing better than prior games but other things worse. The only truly bad all around halo campaign was Halo 5.

to be fair this playlist could have the exact game types of mlg. Look at over watch it’s one ranked playlist, within that playlist is all tournament game types and maps. It clearly doesn’t throw anyone off. But what about doubles players? They’ll need to get used to no rank. But back to topic it’s just called “ranked” in OW. The words hcs or mlg throw people off because that lets everyone know where all us “no life tryhards” are. Kappa

 

You could of gone to waypoint app on Xbox or the site here and watched the videos of their relationship, it’s very interesting. To be fair you’re right it shouldn’t require that, but that’s what happens when a games campaign focus on individualality while it’s previous versions focused on save the damn universe.

 

Back to ranked topic, what happens once the players see it’s too sweaty, what happens when kids bitch about no radar? Some of these things will occur.

[Apoll0]

to be fair this playlist could have the exact game types of mlg. Look at over watch it’s one ranked playlist, within that playlist is all tournament game types and maps. It clearly doesn’t throw anyone off. But what about doubles players? They’ll need to get used to no rank. But back to topic it’s just called “ranked” in OW. The words hcs or mlg throw people off because that lets everyone know where all us “no life tryhards” are. Kappa

 

You could of gone to waypoint app on Xbox or the site here and watched the videos of their relationship, it’s very interesting. To be fair you’re right it shouldn’t require that, but that’s what happens when a games campaign focus on individualality while it’s previous versions focused on save the damn universe.

 

Back to ranked topic, what happens once the players see it’s too sweaty, what happens when kids bitch about no radar? Some of these things will occur.

In fairness, Halo should have 3 ranked lists.  Team Arena, Doubles and FFA.  Since we're talking MCC and they can only have 12 or so playlists across 4 games, the only ranked list per game should be called "Team Arena".  Hardcore settings, with more map/gametype combos than what the competitive circuit uses/used and without the hardcore name. 2v2 for H1, 4v4 everything else.

 

For campaign story, you can either explain everything well throughout the campaign so people understand and "feel" it, or you can't (aka halo 4).  If you can't and you need to take more time to tell it right, just do that.  take the time, save some for another game, or if its really bad create a better story lol.

 

1) If you don't advertise the playlist as "MLG" or "Hardcore" or whatever and implement a proper matchmaking system, the "too sweaty" issue takes care of itself.  How sweaty a playlist is is way more of a consequence of the population of that list, the variety in the list, the shooting skill gap, movement skill gap and the quality of the matchmaking than it is the actual gametypes.  Halo 5 is a great example of this.  People say its "Always sweaty" and it is because the shooting skill gap is pretty narrow, meaning even when you handily win a fight, you are still almost dead.  the population is abysmal making matchmaking shitty. The gametype variety is lacking. The movement skill floor is so high everything feels hard/a chore to do.

2) Kids that bitch about radar can play social.  its really not that hard. Implement a proper progression system per-playlist and you're good to go.

[Supermelee24]

In fairness, Halo should have 3 ranked lists. Team Arena, Doubles and FFA. Since we're talking MCC and they can only have 12 or so playlists across 4 games, the only ranked list per game should be called "Team Arena". Hardcore settings, with more map/gametype combos than what the competitive circuit uses/used and without the hardcore name. 2v2 for H1, 4v4 everything else.

 

For campaign story, you can either explain everything well throughout the campaign so people understand and "feel" it, or you can't (aka halo 4). If you can't and you need to take more time to tell it right, just do that. take the time, save some for another game, or if its really bad create a better story lol.

 

1) If you don't advertise the playlist as "MLG" or "Hardcore" or whatever and implement a proper matchmaking system, the "too sweaty" issue takes care of itself. How sweaty a playlist is is way more of a consequence of the population of that list, the variety in the list, the shooting skill gap, movement skill gap and the quality of the matchmaking than it is the actual gametypes. Halo 5 is a great example of this. People say its "Always sweaty" and it is because the shooting skill gap is pretty narrow, meaning even when you handily win a fight, you are still almost dead. the population is abysmal making matchmaking shitty. The gametype variety is lacking. The movement skill floor is so high everything feels hard/a chore to do.

2) Kids that bitch about radar can play social. its really not that hard. Implement a proper progression system per-playlist and you're good to go.

yet another example of why classic movement is better. The advanced movement is such a chore it’s ridiculous. I wish there was an advanced movement mechanic that didn’t break the pace/formula, or map design but there’s not and it’s not possible to make one. Heck’s only way to do abilities right if they worked like equipment from h3 which was one time use.

[Slayer]

Playing mcc beta tryna find h2 hardcore matches rn lol

[Aphex Twin]

yet another example of why classic movement is better. The advanced movement is such a chore it’s ridiculous. I wish there was an advanced movement mechanic that didn’t break the pace/formula, or map design but there’s not and it’s not possible to make one. Heck’s only way to do abilities right if they worked like equipment from h3 which was one time use.

Only old people like classic movement. Anti-sprint groups have hardly any followers.

[phil]

The only new movement mechanic i would want is a short hop.

[BigShow36]

The only new movement mechanic i would want is a short hop.

 

The only new movement mechanic I want is a crispy strafe. 

[TarpEH]

hi me

 

 

Yes

 

 

Here

 

 

A lot of us 

 

 

Sup yo?

 

 

 

 

tell me MORE

[FarSight XR~20]

tell me MORE

 

 

...I'll go stand in the corner. -_-

[Moa]

 

 

 

Exact details for flight #3 are still being finalized but the current target plan is that the next flight will essentially include the entirety of MCC and be opened to everyone in the MCC Insider Program to participate. We know many of you have been eagerly awaiting your chance to get hands-on and we’re happy to confirm that your time is nearly here. We’ll have more details as soon as things are locked but rest assured that we’re looking to go much bigger in scope and participation for round three and beyond.

[Supermelee24]

Only old people like classic movement. Anti-sprint groups have hardly any followers.

not true at all look at the halo online pop on day one

[Supermelee24]

Playing mcc beta tryna find h2 hardcore matches rn lol

when the flight is inactive search times are longer for some reason

[VinnyMendoza]

Can't wait to finally try CE next flight... Hopefully it has many fixes and improved registration.

[Moa]

when the flight is inactive search times are longer for some reason

Because there's a really small amount of people playing because there isn't an active flight? 

[Snipe Three]

Can't wait to finally try CE next flight... Hopefully it has many fixes and improved registration.

I'd hope it does too but from reading their initial launch goals you shouldn't set yourself up for disappointment 

[Riddler]

The only new movement mechanic i would want is a short hop.

That sorta exists in halo ce. You just have to crouch before you jump and your jump wont have as much height. The issue is you cant go into crouching in 1 frame. 

[BigShow36]

who here actually has the new MCC beta?

I've had the MCC beta since 2014.