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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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What ideal changes would you make to get it to that state? I'd say halo CE on MCC is in a playable condition but is trash compared to the actual game. I know a lot less about any of the other playlists though.

 

Well, first and foremost would be the consolidation of playlist as they currently stand. If the playlist were a lot better, that would make it at least tolerable for the time being while bugs are being fixed; as opposed to how it currently stands in which each playlist is crap and the insane amount of bugs on each list. I had a number of ideas in this post but it was just keeping things as short as possible:

 

http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/4946-halo-the-master-chief-collection-discussion/page-2584?do=findComment&comment=843436

 

But honestly the absolute first step to making this game playable would be to simply make the matchmaking tolerable.

 

Ideally, keeping the cross playlist like Rumble Pit and FFA host all proper game modes and all games.

 

Team Hardcore honestly needs to be separated. It's a waste of a playlist at the moment because the absolute polar opposite communities are in the same playlist and refuse to play each other. 

 

The playlists right now offer have tons of wasted space and friction just makes people quit.

 

Then, we could actually start working on actual bugs with the games.

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Yeah the launch was a complete train wreck, but that's something I can sort of understand. Crazy mishap, whatever. What I can't handle is the fact that they just stopped fixing it. Even if they had only two people working on MCC, it would at least be something. But nope. They abandoned it. Just goes to show there's no sense of integrity up at 343soft.

 

MCC was created to destroy Halo's past, H5 and onwards to destroy Halo's future. Unless someone was around for the OG trilogy, most people in a couple years will think of Halo as 1. "that collection of broken-ass games" and 2. a cheap CoD ripoff space shooter.

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Well, first and foremost would be the consolidation of playlist as they currently stand. If the playlist were a lot better, that would make it at least tolerable for the time being while bugs are being fixed; as opposed to how it currently stands in which each playlist is crap and the insane amount of bugs on each list. I had a number of ideas in this post but it was just keeping things as short as possible:

 

http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/4946-halo-the-master-chief-collection-discussion/page-2584?do=findComment&comment=843436

 

But honestly the absolute first step to making this game playable would be to simply make the matchmaking tolerable.

 

Ideally, keeping the cross playlist like Rumble Pit and FFA host all proper game modes and all games.

 

Team Hardcore honestly needs to be separated. It's a waste of a playlist at the moment because the absolute polar opposite communities are in the same playlist and refuse to play each other. 

 

The playlists right now offer have tons of wasted space and friction just makes people quit.

 

Then, we could actually start working on actual bugs with the games.

 

I would have handled it like this:

 

Ranked:

 

  • Every game gets it's own premier ranked playlist. This is where the actual competition happens: CE 2v2, H2 Hardcore, H2A 4v4, H3 MLG, H4 Team Throwdown (not sure if this one is necessary)
  • Cross game: FFA, Doubles, Team Slayer, SWAT, Team Snipers

 

Social: (all cross-game)

 

  • BTB
  • Social Slayer
  • Team Skirmish
  • Multi Team
  • Action Sack

 

And then add filters for all the cross-game playlists. Just like the MM preferences you tick the boxes to allow which game you want to play (imagine CE, H2, H2A, H3 and H4 instead of good connection, language and skill):

jo475f7a8t7z.jpg

 

This way we could have:

  • Kept the total amount of playlist as low as possible (still too many probably)
  • Make sure everyone only plays what they actually want to play and significantly reduce the prevalance of QTB and quitting as soon as the game starts.

 

Also: get rid of AR/SMG start gametypes as much as possible, add the H3 XP system to give an incentive to win and further reduce quitting, add double XP weekends and make dodging count as a loss. I strongly believe this could be done in two weeks with a team of good people and would make the game at least 10x more enjoyable.

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I know so many people (including myself) that took time off work to play this game. It still pisses me of til this day that they knowingly released that game in that state, knowing all the issues.

 

And once again, yes, there are a TON of us that would love to work on it. We've been saying it for some years now:

 

http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/4946-halo-the-master-chief-collection-discussion/page-2541?do=findComment&comment=778096

 

Give me a team of like 6 diehard Halo fans who love development/programming like I do. We'd have the game playable and polished in two weeks, maximum. I couldn't care any less about the money.

There's a limit to what passion and hard work can do,I highly doubt your group would have the game anywhere near polished within two weeks.343 fucked up the code so bad that fixing something breaks something else.

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There's a limit to what passion and hard work can do,I highly doubt your group would have rather game anywhere near polished within two weeks.343 fucked up the code so bad that fixing something breaks something else.

 

I probably shouldn't have used polished, you're right. But three weeks, absolute maximum, this game would be highly playable, and I'd definitely take that wager. Especially considering playlists are the biggest issue aside from the bugs. The "This fix breaks something else" has to deal with poor development/configuration management. Like anti-aim for example. I imagine there was some old code they were trying to merge in and overwrote some newer code elsewhere with old code and that's what introduced it. Because the changelog for CE in the patch that introduced it made had zero correlation.

 

If you fix a bug and exposes a programming issue elsewhere, you fix that too.. You don't just commit the fix for that one item and that's it. That's what testing is for.

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I probably shouldn't have used polished, but three weeks, absolute maximum this game would be highly playable I'd definitely take that wager. The "This fix breaks something else" has to deal with poor development/configuration management. Like anti-aim for example. I imagine there was some old code they were trying to merge in and overwrote some newer code elsewhere with old code and that's what introduced it. Because the changelog for CE in the patch that introduced it made had zero correlation.

 

If you fix a bug and exposes a programming issue elsewhere, you fix that too.. You don't just commit the fix for that one item and that's it. That's what testing is for.

 

but "none of these problems showed up in our testing"

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but "none of these problems showed up in our testing"

 

And it's stupid because anti aim was one of, if not, the most reproducible bug in the game. All you had to do was play for 20 seconds. A lot of the bugs/issues/etc kind of happen sporadically and I can at least understand those (some of them).

 

Like the menus for example, when they start overlapping and all of that. Educated guess, but I'm pretty sure there are some loose GUI pointers in there that aren't getting destroyed and created properly therefore causing:

A) Memory leaks, which can lead to performance issues the longer you play, which would then lead to crashing.

B) The GUI errors you see.

 

They don't happen all the time, but you would be surprised at the amount of GUI code that can be fixed by simply allocating memory correctly. I know what I'm saying may sound like gibberish, but it's not as bad as people think. A lot of it stems from the fact that some programming languages does this automatically and create bad habits for people.

 

I also imagine it's the reason you would end up seeing actual variable names in the game. Things like "$Playlist_Name" and stuff like that if you've ever seen it.

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I can't help but think that with so many reports of the game being seemingly in different playable states for different people that putting out patches to people has mixed results and as you say, could "break" other things. The game would probably need to be built from the ground up or at least give everyone the same base point to start out from. Though I know next to nothing about game programming/design so could be wrong.

 

You ever think how the game was released with things such as Halo 3 map layouts in the original 2007 launch state (radar jammers and flares etc.) and other differences things that seem to indicate they were using old or original build of the games? 

 

MCC should have been a thriving community for years after launch but we are all long since beating a dead horse at this point. May as well resign to being sad about what could have been. Nostalgia is a beautiful and shitty thing.

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I can't help but think that with so many reports of the game being seemingly in different playable states for different people that putting out patches to people has mixed results and as you say, could "break" other things. The game would probably need to be built from the ground up or at least give everyone the same base point to start out from. Though I know next to nothing about game programming/design so could be wrong.

 

There are a few major reasons that people have different perceptions of the game.

 

1. Stupidity/ignorance/being trashcans. There are plenty of bugs that are easily replicable, game-breaking, and come up in the normal course of play. When you have people who don't realize that the CE Magnum ISN'T supposed to curve bullets around your targets seemingly at random or suck too badly anyway for it to matter, they think things work as intended. They probably don't think it's an issue that MCC H3 BR bullets travel in slow motion. You can find these kinds of people on nearly any public platform by pointing out the fact that MCC is a broken piece of shit. "Nuh uh. It's fixed!" Pointing them to actual lists of documented bugs accomplishes nothing.

 

2. People who only play campaign and say the whole collection works fine. There are still bugs in campaigns, but they are nowhere near as severe. These people also fall under the first category, because they're idiots (and a lot of them are also really bad at the game).

 

3. People only play certain games. If you spend most of your time in H4 or H2A in particular, your experience is going to be vastly different from someone grinding CE 2v2 against Columbians. All of the games have different problems (on top of the weird shit the MCC wrapper itself does).

 

​The game isn't broken inconsistently for different people. Different people are using it and perceiving it differently, which results in inconsistent reports. They are all playing the same build, on the same operating system, on identical hardware. It doesn't behave differently for different people given identical input.

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There are a few major reasons that people have different perceptions of the game.

 

1. Stupidity/ignorance/being trashcans. There are plenty of bugs that are easily replicable, game-breaking, and come up in the normal course of play. When you have people who don't realize that the CE Magnum ISN'T supposed to curve bullets around your targets seemingly at random or suck too badly anyway for it to matter, they think things work as intended. They probably don't think it's an issue that MCC H3 BR bullets travel in slow motion. You can find these kinds of people on nearly any public platform by pointing out the fact that MCC is a broken piece of shit. "Nuh uh. It's fixed!" Pointing them to actual lists of documented bugs accomplishes nothing.

 

2. People who only play campaign and say the whole collection works fine. There are still bugs in campaigns, but they are nowhere near as severe. These people also fall under the first category, because they're idiots (and a lot of them are also really bad at the game).

 

3. People only play certain games. If you spend most of your time in H4 or H2A in particular, your experience is going to be vastly different from someone grinding CE 2v2 against Columbians. All of the games have different problems (on top of the weird shit the MCC wrapper itself does).

 

​The game isn't broken inconsistently for different people. Different people are using it and perceiving it differently, which results in inconsistent reports. They are all playing the same build, on the same operating system, on identical hardware. It doesn't behave differently for different people given identical input.

 

OK fair enough, makes sense cheers  :)

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And it's stupid because anti aim was one of, if not, the most reproducible bug in the game. All you had to do was play for 20 seconds. A lot of the bugs/issues/etc kind of happen sporadically and I can at least understand those (some of them).

 

Like the menus for example, when they start overlapping and all of that. Educated guess, but I'm pretty sure there are some loose GUI pointers in there that aren't getting destroyed and created properly therefore causing:

A) Memory leaks, which can lead to performance issues the longer you play, which would then lead to crashing.

B) The GUI errors you see.

 

They don't happen all the time, but you would be surprised at the amount of GUI code that can be fixed by simply allocating memory correctly. I know what I'm saying may sound like gibberish, but it's not as bad as people think. A lot of it stems from the fact that some programming languages does this automatically and create bad habits for people.

 

I also imagine it's the reason you would end up seeing actual variable names in the game. Things like "$Playlist_Name" and stuff like that if you've ever seen it.

Which is why I get the feeling MCC was rushed by Microsoft because they needed a console seller.

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Which is why I get the feeling MCC was rushed by Microsoft because they needed a console seller.

 

Oh without a doubt man. I'd be willing to bet MCC was the biggest console seller by far if there were a trend of video game releases : consoles sold. Broken or not, that game was getting released, because you're simply not going to miss the sheer amount of consoles that were sold because of the franchise that practically coined Xbox Live.

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The playlist can easily be fixed and make this game 999 percent more playable and streamlined.

Currently the slots for each game works like this

Auto starts—BR starts—Objective (sometimes can be ar starts lol)

A simple change that would do wonders is

BR Slayer starts—Objective (BR)—Torument settings.

This way you can get rid of the team hardcore playlist, separating the H2/H3 players and bringing them back to their respective playlist. It would promote some much needed variety in the h2/h3 hoppers and it would have people who are nervous try the tournament settings in a much less hostile environment. Hell you could even put team throw down in the H4 playlist and the HCS settings in the H2A playlist.

Most importantly it will get rid of AR/SMG starts that's been plaguing halo for over a decade.

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Having everything under one UI on one disc is why MCC was so fucked up. If you're playing Halo 3, you also have the coding of three more Halo games in the background. You change one thing about Halo 1, it can fuck something up in Halo 3.

 

Its a big spiderweb of complexity. And what for? So we can have everything under a universal UI so we can have cross game playlists that are garbage? One Halo game winning a majority of the time, people quitting because they dont get the game they want, etc.

 

At the very minimum, each Halo game should have had its own UI and own playlists. Cross game playlists will never work. Its 2017, peoples attention spans are too short to not play what they truly want. Such a small miniority of players go into a playlist like Big Team Battle saying "i dont care what Halo I play right now". Most people know exactly what Halo they want to play at that moment. You dont need 10 playlists a game either.

 

H1: 2v2, 4v4, maybe BTB

H2: 2v2, 4v4 slayer, 4v4 MLG, BTB

H3: 2v2, 4v4 slayer, MLG, Snipers, BTB

H4: 4v4 playlist, BTB

 

Thats 14 must have playlists. MCC has 14 playlists right now. Same amount of playlists, but you get to play what you want when you want. No more dodging because someone didnt get the right Halo. Once everything is working, you can gauge the population of each game and make a decision to add in accessory playlists.

 

Id be all for 343 even releasing each Halo on a seperate disc within the collection if that meant they can fix Halo 1 without fucking up Halo 4. Whether all on the same disc or seperate, loading up Halo 1 when you want to play Halo 1 is a lot better than loading up 4 games at once when most people just want to play 1 game anyways.

 

Universal UI and cross game playlists did so much more damage than they helped.

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I love when the thread gets like this. It shouldn't be forgotten and lol at everyone who bought H5. You contributed to them getting away with this.

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Lol where is H3....

I have asked this same question every tuesday and thursday. My guess is it will come out on tuesday september 5th a day before destiny 2 so no one will actually go back and play it, I knew some how 343 would screw this up. I wanted bc for the short term population boost but we might not even get that.  :salt:

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I love when the thread gets like this. It shouldn't be forgotten and lol at everyone who bought H5. You contributed to them getting away with this.

 

This.  We've got a whole forum of people playing halo 5 thinking they are part of the solution when they are part of the problem.  Supply/demand isn't some new thing.

 

Don't buy their garbage and the series dies so that the next group of competent devs can make something better.

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I wonder if the PR hit was worth it.

I will not be purchasing another Xbox console until after a playable Halo shooter comes out..... might be a while......

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MCC should have been a thriving community for years after launch but we are all long since beating a dead horse at this point. May as well resign to being sad about what could have been. Nostalgia is a beautiful and shitty thing.

 

Or we could continue reminding this public of this disaster, push back against Microsoft's memory hole.

 

​The game isn't broken inconsistently for different people. Different people are using it and perceiving it differently, which results in inconsistent reports. They are all playing the same build, on the same operating system, on identical hardware. It doesn't behave differently for different people given identical input.

 

Slightly different topic, but didn't Halo 5's "heavy aim" manifest differently for different people because the aiming mechanics were tied to latency in some way?

 

I wonder if the PR hit was worth it.

 

What PR hit? And what's this "MCC" y'all keep mentioning?

 

I love when the thread gets like this. It shouldn't be forgotten and lol at everyone who bought H5. You contributed to them getting away with this.

thisqjllm.jpg

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Having everything under one UI on one disc is why MCC was so fucked up. If you're playing Halo 3, you also have the coding of three more Halo games in the background. You change one thing about Halo 1, it can fuck something up in Halo 3.

 

That doesn't really make sense at all. They are separate engines with separate codebases. There are certainly collection wide problems, but I can't think of any reason that fixing game-specific bugs would have any impact on the other games. What dependency do you think exists there? Why on earth would "the code" of every game be running in the background? They had to adapt VERY different net code solutions to all work with the newer Azure-based XBL framework. Putting them on separate discs might help some of the UI-specific problems, (because it's basically loading 5 separate games on a regular basis) but I fail to see how it would solve much else on the technical side. They would still be adapting wildly different games for the same platform and whatever game-specific solutions they came up with to interface with Azure would probably still be rushed, broken garbage (outside of H4/H2A, which probably had more modern net code to begin with).

 

I agree with you on the issues with cross-game playlists overall, but like I said, I'm skeptical of the notion that separate discs/UI would make any difference.

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