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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Never talked about Halo 1. H3 had by far the most stripped down sandbox and dismissing anything if it isnt Rockets/snipe/br is exactly what is wrong.

 

Why's it wrong? Halo 3 had a pretty decent run as a competitive Halo title, last I checked.

 

You want a bigger competitive sandbox, tell the devs to come up with better weapons instead of re-skinning the same shitty automatic rifle 6 times.

 

 

Your argument is all over the place. On ONE hand you say "So someone makes a kewl jetpack flag toss once every 15 games or something"

 

Which implies it didnt have a noticeable effect on gameplay, (wether good or bad) on the other hand you say "and that suddenly forgives the fact that it breaks any vertically focused map?" Implying it is so powerful it changes the whole game.

 

Either Jetpack is useful and makes a difference or its can be disregarded because nobody uses it as it isnt very good.

If it WAS op people would have used it all the time.

 

By that line of thought camo is incredibly overpowered and breaks ANY map because you can sneak around pretty much as much as you want for the entire duration.

Get a sniper and you are incredibly powerful.

 

 

Camo as an AA breaks the game into a million tiny pieces. As does jetpack. This conversation is melting my brain cells.

 

Also what do rockets have to do with map flow? If you are saying a power weapon creates map flow around that area just put a sniper there instead so the weapon atleast needs some kind of proficiency to be useful.

 

Excellent question! Really, what does a powerful explosive weapon with a sizable OHKO radius have to do with map flow? It's a mystery!

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I see more H:CE and H2 than H3. What threads are you reading?

All you got to do is read the tournament thread really. 

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Unreal Tournament would like a word with you.

 

Oh, are we about to have the jump boots conversation again? I so enjoyed that back on MLG forums.

 

EDIT: just to nip this in the bud, jump boots and jetpack are not the same thing. Jump boots comes with a limited number of uses, takes more skill to use effectively, and the penalty for fucking up is greater than with a jetpack.

 

I would actually welcome the jump boots in Halo. They're like the powerup camo to the jetpack's AA camo. One is good for competitive play, the other is fucking ********.

 

EDIT2: "r(e)tarded" is censored, but "fucking" is not? Kappa.jpg

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I don't think any single person in this thread arguing for Jetpacks wants them off-spawn or in loadouts.

 

I didn't say they were. I just said that those were the kinds of things that killed Halo. In a previous post I also said if AAs were to only become map pickups, it wouldn't make them any less game breaking just because they were less abundant. 

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I'd love to see where I ever said that. I was merely talking about Jetpack specifically, but expanded the argument to include all AAs.

 

Weapons are different. If there was only BRs, no other weapons, and no AAs, it would still be more competitive and 100x better than H4.

The Jetpack is different from the other AAs, where they provide almost exclusively a defensive ability. Jetpack can be used offensively.

 

 

Why's it wrong? Halo 3 had a pretty decent run as a competitive Halo title, last I checked.

 

You want a bigger competitive sandbox, tell the devs to come up with better weapons instead of re-skinning the same shitty automatic rifle 6 times.

Popularity and quality are not one in the same.

 

We got better weapons in Halo 4, yet you still bitch that the AR was included.

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All you got to do is read the tournament thread really. 

 

So one thread vs the rest of the forum? Last I checked, H:CE and H:2 weren't going to be played in any tournaments that are coming up because they aren't really available to everyone unless they have XBC which gives a massive host advantage against people without superb internet speeds. It's not viable to talk about those two games in a tournament setting until the MCC comes out, so H3 is the next closest thing to H:CE and H:2, so you are going to hear a lot about H:3 in there. That's not a hard thing to figure out. 

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Y'all forgetting Halo CE Rockets. Powerful as fuck, but no aim assist, and slower travel time. I think Bungie nerfed them afterwards so they'd be more anti-vehicular (homing).  

 

OTOH, all the weapons in H3 had to be nerfed because of the shitty BR. 

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Popularity and quality are not one in the same.

 

We got better weapons in Halo 4, yet you still bitch that the AR was included.

 

Because the AR had no reason to be in the competitive sandbox.

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Because the AR had no reason to be in the competitive sandbox.

I see no reason why not. It's a single situational weapon that is worthless outside being close-up to a player. You trade aiming difficulty for effective range.

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The Jetpack is different from the other AAs, where they provide almost exclusively a defensive ability. Jetpack can be used offensively.

 

I can't tell if you're just adding things into the discussion out of no where or what.

 

I understand that Jetpack can be used offensively, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still a jetpack. It still breaks the game. It gives anyone who has it height advantage at the press of a button. Completely breaking the thought of holding a power position because it will always be trumped by a jetpack. Just because it's offensive doesn't mean it's less game breaking. 

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I see no reason why not. It's a single situational weapon that is worthless outside being close-up to a player. You trade aiming difficulty for effective range.

 

Soooo why not use the shotgun or SAW?

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The things that killed competitive Halo are the things that killed Halo. AAs killed Halo. Sprint killed Halo. Randomness killed Halo. People wanted a fair game that is predictable. Having spread on the BR is random. That made people dislike the BR in some aspects. Letting people be different by giving them AAs made more randomness in the game. Then loadouts and perks which made people less equal and less predictable. What feels like Halo is when everyone spawn with the same weapon (that actually has some viable use towards protection) and everyone is equal in terms of equipment. Sprint gave people a burst of speed at random times at the press of a button. 

 

I honestly wouldn't care if they got rid of the BR and put in only DMRs or even Carbines as long as everyone spawned with it and I could protect myself from any other weapon. That doesn't mean I can kill someone with any other weapon, it just means that if I'm being shot at by a sniper, I can hit him and descope him so he has to work for his kill. Or if an AR or sword comes charging at me, I can still put up a fight. 

 

Oh I agree I want a fair game that is predictable too. However it really doesnt make any difference if people could choose between utility weapons as long as they are properly balanced.

 

In Reach MLG (not sure if they kept this for NBNS)  you could start with either a DMR or a Needle Rifle. Pretty much 99% of the people chose the DMR anyways, but atleast trying to add some variety was a commendable effort in my opinion.

 

Yes letting people spawn with AA's was stupid and the fact something like armor lock even made it past alpha was incredible.

On map AA's also didnt function all that well with the unintuitive spawn system and the fact you kept them until you died.

 

The point I've been trying to make is that you shouldnt throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 Kust because something is bad in one form like Loadouts spawning you with different AA's, doesnt mean different utility weapon loadouts would be bad too.

 

By this I mean like how they handled it in reach mlg or if TTD had  BR/DMR/LR loadouts.

 

Worst case everyone uses the same weapon and nothing changes, best case you get slightly more interesting gameplay because the weapons are somewhat different while still being balanced.

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All 3 of the first Halo games have sections of the competitive community that favor it over the others.

This would probably sum it up; CE is viewed as the best, Halo 2 is viewed as the most popular, Halo 3 is viewed as the most familiar.

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I can't tell if you're just adding things into the discussion out of no where or what.

 

I understand that Jetpack can be used offensively, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still a jetpack. It still breaks the game. It gives anyone who has it height advantage at the press of a button. Completely breaking the thought of holding a power position because it will always be trumped by a jetpack. Just because it's offensive doesn't mean it's less game breaking. 

 

It breaks the game in the event that a bunch of players spawn with it by choosing a loadout. I feel like you are not looking at things objectively enough.

It gives players a height advantage at a press of a button. For one life. And they also have to go and grab one of the limited amount of Jetpacks.

 

 

Soooo why not use the shotgun or SAW?

In the context of Halo 4, the SAW provided too much damage output, with less punishment for missing individual shots, and much higher accuracy in comparison to the Assault Rifle.

As for the Shotgun, its one-shot range was just a tad too long; I preferred the Boltshot as a map pickup.

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In the context of Halo 4, the SAW provided too much damage output, with less punishment for missing individual shots, and much higher accuracy in comparison to the Assault Rifle.

 

So it was worth picking up, then?

 

As for the Shotgun, its one-shot range was just a tad too long; I preferred the Boltshot as a map pickup.

 

Oh my god what am I doing here.

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Oh my god what am I doing here.

Sounds like bias. The pre-patch Boltshot works fine as a pickup.

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Oh I agree I want a fair game that is predictable too. However it really doesnt make any difference if people could choose between utility weapons as long as they are properly balanced.

 In Reach MLG (not sure if they kept this for NBNS)  you could start with either a DMR or a Needle Rifle. Pretty much 99% of the people chose the DMR anyways, but atleast trying to add some variety was a commendable effort in my opinion.

 

Yes letting people spawn with AA's was stupid and the fact something like armor lock even made it past alpha was incredible.

On map AA's also didnt function all that well with the unintuitive spawn system and the fact you kept them until you died.

 

The point I've been trying to you shouldnt throw the baby out with the bathwater, and just because something is bad in one form like Loadouts has to be bad if you apply it right.

 

By this I mean like how they handled it in reach mlg or if TTD had  BR/DMR/LR loadouts.

 

Worst case everyone uses the same weapon and nothing changes, best case you get slightly more interesting gameplay because the weapons are somewhat different while still being balanced.

 

The DMR and NR were basically the same weapon. The DMR and BR aren't. So if we only had the same type of weapon, i.e... mid range vs mid range, then I could see it working and wouldn't have a problem with it. The problem is the DMR was long range, the BR was mid-range, and the AR was close range. The settings you speak of are about as close to adding variety to Halo spawn as I can see being possible without making everyone angry. 

 

I just don't think this applies to AAs in any way shape or form which is all I was arguing. AAs are in no way shape or form balanced, so I think they definitely needed to go.  

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So it was worth picking up, then?

It was worth picking up so much that it nearly invalidated your spawn weapon. Something with I believe should not happen.

 

 

Oh my god what am I doing here.

Yeah, it didn't exist before Reach so it shouldn't exist at all, right?

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I just don't think this applies to AAs in any way shape or form which is all I was arguing. AAs are in no way shape or form balanced, so I think they definitely needed to go.  

Since when has a powerup needed to be perfectly balanced?

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It was worth picking up so much that it nearly invalidated your spawn weapon. Something with I believe should not happen.

 

So the jetpack invalidating map geo is just jim-dandy to you, but power weapons outclassing a player's spawn weapon is not? Oy vey...

 

Yeah, it didn't exist before Reach so it shouldn't exist at all, right?

 

Is the shotgun going out of style?

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It breaks the game in the event that a bunch of players spawn with it by choosing a loadout. I feel like you are not looking at things objectively enough.

It gives players a height advantage at a press of a button. For one life. And they also have to go and grab one of the limited amount of Jetpacks.

 

If you limit it to that extent, then it is now pointless and still keeps that random aspect in the game. My argument for the Jetpack and why I prefer the original Invis and OS power ups as opposed to the Jetpack is because the Jetpack is an active ability and the OS and Invis are passive. You can't control any aspect of the OS or Invis other than the time it starts because you picked it up. A player must have complete control over the jetpack in order to use it. That is why I don't feel it belongs in a Halo game. Passive power ups are perfectly fine, but just because you limit someones use of an ability, as long as they have control over it, there will be a way to exploit it. 

 

Since when has a powerup needed to be perfectly balanced?

 

The original power ups were completely balanced. If you try to do too much with an OS, then you will end up burning it and waste your teams opportunity to use it effectively. Also, one plasma stick, and the OS is dead. For invis, if you push and someone can see you, you've lost all your advantage. 

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Why's it wrong? Halo 3 had a pretty decent run as a competitive Halo title, last I checked.

 

You want a bigger competitive sandbox, tell the devs to come up with better weapons instead of re-skinning the same shitty automatic rifle 6 times.

 

 

Camo as an AA breaks the game into a million tiny pieces. As does jetpack. This conversation is melting my brain cells.

 

 

Excellent question! Really, what does a powerful explosive weapon with a sizable OHKO radius have to do with map flow? It's a mystery!

 

 

Hint: I wasnt talking about the AA

 

Even then, if you think camo AA and jetpack AA are even remotely on the same level, I can see why you are getting all bent out of shape.

 

Also, you still havent answered my question as to why people would not want to pick up a sniper which is atleast as deadly if not much more so than rockets.

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Ah, the "ur a closed-minded doo doo!!!1" argument. Always a classic.

 

I can take solace in the fact that the attitude you're preaching drove MLG Reach straight into the ground. And Halo 4 for that matter, with fucking armor abilities and ARs and whatever else Ghost fucking threw in there.

Before you fucking bash Ghostamaye, get your facts straight. He didn't start working there until AFTER Halo 4 came out.

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Before you fucking bash Ghostamaye, get your facts straight. He didn't start working there until AFTER Halo 4 came out.

 

Ghostayame made the AGL Halo 4 settings. That's what I'm talking about, god knows what the fuck you're talking about.

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