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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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No argument. But the wide-open design of maps, as opposed to segmented and room-by-room structure, started with H2.

 

 

 

 

I don't often disagree with you, but this is one of those times. 

 

Two of the three "Classic" H1 maps feature open structures - Hang 'em High and Prisoner. You've also got Derelict, which is about as open as it gets. 

 

Then you've got Creek, which is obviously the same in both games

 

You've got Damnation, which honestly - you could compare to Ivory Tower in terms of openness and structure. You've got a center pit visible from most of the map, and some smaller secondary rooms and hallways. 

 

Wizard - Warlock

 

H2 has Midship, which is the quintessential open map, but plays really well in H2, and Lockout, which does a decent job of combining the two styles of open central map with room play on the edges.

 

H1 has Ratrace, which is definitely a segmented room-type map. 

 

Does H2 have more open maps than H1? Sure - but it's not like H2 blows H1 out of the water in that area. H3 is where it gets really fucky to me. 

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Seriously if you actually think CE is the only good Halo game then you are not a Halo fan and shouldn't be posting about Halo all day on a primarily Halo-based forum.

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So we all know this game is a semi functional abomination. Constant game crashes, inexcusable glitches and wait times, every single bug you could think of. And yet, I play this thing more than any other game I have ever bought for the Xbox One. I get frustrated daily, I say everything bad imaginable about this game and the devs who aborted this game out. Does anyone else play this game regularly or am I just insane????

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His statement that Halo 2 is where the franchise started to decline is something agreed with by such a pathetically small amount of people that it shouldn't be said in the tone that he says it with.

you must have not played halo 2 at all in 2004-2005. and it was only accidentally fixed lmao. so yes, that is when the game started to decline. we lucked out that halo2 was even playable after the accidental spread patch. 

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When people say Halo 3 is shit, they are referring to the competitive side of the game. This is a forum. We're here to have a discussion. If you disagree with someone, ask why they think that way and be prepared to counter whatever points they bring up. That's how a discussion here is supposed to work.

 

 

He made a statement saying that Halo 2 was where the franchise started to decline. He then went on to say that part of that was because of the way maps were designed. Maybe I'm missing something, because I don't see a problem.

Well halo 3 was competitive in my eyes, some of the "mechanics" might not be perfect but it doesnt mean the game was shit. I agree with you about how to discuss when people disagree but that isnt what happens here. Someone will throw out a "halo 3 is shit" comment to bait someone like me out and have this EXACT same discussion over and over. You dont ever see someone tossing out a random "fuck halo ce/2" or "halo ce/2 fukin suck lulz" because no one is that childish to start an endless debate for no apparent reason than to start their circlejerk

 

If I were to deny that Justin Bieber sells more records than Mozart, I would most certainly be a potato.

Taking things out of context

 

Oh, a CE vs. Halo 2 vs. Halo 3 debate? Is it Wednesday already?

Id hate to be mod here.

 

@@Eyevan yo Brahms just don't bother. H3 isn't h1 (and in some cases h2). So it may as well be h5/vanilla reach/h4 as far as the circlejerk is concerned. Although nbns reach is fine, nuke nades take skill yo :kappa:

Yea i know. NBNS was great though i agree

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No one ever discusses gameplay/strats in these forums lol. It's literally "which game is more skillful" 90% of the time which I buess I had some fun with before but now it's just annoying. idk why we care so much which takes more skill, all ur games r shit

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I don't often disagree with you, but this is one of those times. 

 

Two of the three "Classic" H1 maps feature open structures - Hang 'em High and Prisoner. You've also got Derelict, which is about as open as it gets. 

 

Then you've got Creek, which is obviously the same in both games

 

You've got Damnation, which honestly - you could compare to Ivory Tower in terms of openness and structure. You've got a center pit visible from most of the map, and some smaller secondary rooms and hallways. 

 

Wizard - Warlock

 

H2 has Midship, which is the quintessential open map, but plays really well in H2, and Lockout, which does a decent job of combining the two styles of open central map with room play on the edges.

 

H1 has Ratrace, which is definitely a segmented room-type map. 

 

Does H2 have more open maps than H1? Sure - but it's not like H2 blows H1 out of the water in that area. H3 is where it gets really fucky to me.

Hang'em High, absolutely. Wizard, you could argue that as well - Wizard 4s are kind of a nightmare.

 

But Prisoner's combat is overwhelmingly vertical due to the map's small size and constant need to move between levels to obtain power items. This has a lot to do with CE's mechanics, to be sure, but never would you see people just firing from OS to window for 30 seconds at a time. The platforms are mostly shielded by overhanging awnings. And Dammy is a large map, but there are probably only two real lanes of fire that cover long distances, and that's top green to catwalk and top green down to rocket ladder.

 

In fact, Dammy is the PERFECT example of a large map with a proper design, because while the actual spatial volume of the map is very big, the combat surface area is very small and its accessibility is outstanding.

 

I'll grant you this - it's more that the "best" maps in H2 were the worst offenders in this category. Lockout, Midship, and Sanctuary specifically.

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No one ever discusses gameplay/strats in these forums lol. It's literally "which game is more skillful" 90% of the time which I buess I had some fun with before but now it's just annoying. idk why we care so much which takes more skill, all ur games r shit

I was talking about this yesterday. Was there any strat that was more effective than the Guardian Ball snipe tower setup? If you got everyone where they needed to be game was basically over. People would quit within minutes.

 

In Halo 3 that is

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Taking things out of context

I am absolutely NOT taking things out of context, thanks.

 

You are arguing that because something is popular, it's good.

 

If that's not what you're arguing, then you're literally arguing nothing at all.

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We have a countdown timer on the next patch? I really would like to play this game... especially with ranks.

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I am absolutely NOT taking things out of context, thanks.

 

You are arguing that because something is popular, it's good.

 

If that's not what you're arguing, then you're literally arguing nothing at all.

but you are.

 

You compared h3 to fukin justin beiber....your agenda remains the same.

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No one ever discusses gameplay/strats in these forums lol. It's literally "which game is more skillful" 90% of the time which I buess I had some fun with before but now it's just annoying. idk why we care so much which takes more skill, all ur games r shit

 

I care because I play these games to compete in something I enjoy against other people. The only way I personally feel rewarded for playing the game is if the game rewards me for being better, through physical skill and mental acumen, than other players. When the game has bad mechanics, that reward is obfuscated and my desire to play is diminished. Essentially, I want to compete in an environment that is fair and skill-based.

 

 

 

Hang'em High, absolutely. Wizard, you could argue that as well - Wizard 4s are kind of a nightmare.

 

But Prisoner's combat is overwhelmingly vertical due to the map's small size and constant need to move between levels to obtain power items. This has a lot to do with CE's mechanics, to be sure, but never would you see people just firing from OS to window for 30 seconds at a time. The platforms are mostly shielded by overhanging awnings. And Dammy is a large map, but there are probably only two real lanes of fire that cover long distances, and that's top green to catwalk and top green down to rocket ladder.

 

In fact, Dammy is the PERFECT example of a large map with a proper design, because while the actual spatial volume of the map is very big, the combat surface area is very small and its accessibility is outstanding.

 

I'll grant you this - it's more that the "best" maps in H2 were the worst offenders in this category. Lockout, Midship, and Sanctuary specifically.

 

Many of the map shortcomings can be laid at the feet of the actual mechanics. The limited range and slower kill time of Halo 2 limited what a "good" map could or couldn't be. Put Dammy in Halo 2 and it would be a terrible failure.

 

 

 

Seriously if you actually think CE is the only good Halo game then you are not a Halo fan and shouldn't be posting about Halo all day on a primarily Halo-based forum.

 

Dang, I should have used that on my resume to 343: "Only likes Halo CE, therefore is not a Halo fan and hates Halo."

 

Instant hire.

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but you are.

 

You compared h3 to fukin justin beiber....your agenda remains the same.

Not really the point of the analogy, but okay.

 

Many of the map shortcomings can be laid at the feet of the actual mechanics. The limited range and slower kill time of Halo 2 limited what a "good" map could or couldn't be. Put Dammy in Halo 2 and it would be a terrible failure.

Very true, but at the same time, Halo as a whole does not benefit from any map that has sections where you can entrench yourself and fire from tower-like positions.

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I care because I play these games to compete in something I enjoy against other people. The only way I personally feel rewarded for playing the game is if the game rewards me for being better, through physical skill and mental acumen, than other players. When the game has bad mechanics, that reward is obfuscated and my desire to play is diminished. Essentially, I want to compete in an environment that is fair and skill-based.

 

 

 

 

Many of the map shortcomings can be laid at the feet of the actual mechanics. The limited range and slower kill time of Halo 2 limited what a "good" map could or couldn't be. Put Dammy in Halo 2 and it would be a terrible failure.

 

As evidenced by the disastrous remakes of Hang 'Em High and Derelict in H2's DLC. 

 

On the flip side, you could drop Sanctuary or even Collosus in H1 and have some good fun. 

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Very true, but at the same time, Halo as a whole does not benefit from any map that has sections where you can entrench yourself and fire from tower-like positions.

 

Absolutely, which is why I always face palm when Halo 2/3 fanboys talk about "map control." Their idea of skillful map control is holding an easily defensible "power" position with a universally applied setup, like it's some epic strategy.

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This kind of happened to me if I'm understanding your post. I was really excited to play H2 and H3 on dedicated servers. Then when nothing was working and I heard that the CE playlist came out and I was also reading all of the awesome things CE had to offer from these forums, I gave it a try, I tried to do some of the easy things like lead shots, quick camo, etc... and I had a great time. None of my other friends are really that good at it, but I'm no Ogre either. I just have a genuinely great time playing it. I can't even describe it, but for some reason it's a genuinely fun experience, even when I'm getting my shit kicked in.

 

Happy to see you found some enjoyment out of it, hope you stick with it.

 

However thats not quite what i was trying to say with my post but i am pretty terrible at making my points concise so let me give you an example of the kind of frustration that will result from playing halo 1 soley for a while. Lets take the map prisoner, you are sitting on the bridge between red 3 and top window engaged in a pistol battle with someone who is near the OS spawn coming up from the blue tunnel leading to it. You are both very intent on getting it (and rightfully so its the key to really getting both teammates in position to control the map) and he starts losing the battle, if he played the situation as effectively in possible in terms of positioning he is going be just barely peaking out of blue tunnel in the event of them starting to lose the battle. If he steps out further he is going to die because he is too low on health relative to my weapons damage level to get away back to blue tunnel. In halo 2 for example that distance he can afford to step out while being reasonably sure of having an escape route literally grows by 2x if we are comparing minimum kill times. Lets say in both situations the player managed to retreat back to the safety of blue tunnel, the halo 1 player has a longer shield recharge time so once i pick up OS i lose less health finishing him off in the tunnel. If im too low to finish the battle in halo 1 the fight doesnt reset, that player at the minimum will probably lose some non recharging health and i will have another advantage over him. In halo 2 his shield recharges quicker, so he might be back to full shields when i pick up the OS and he certainly has more health then if it didnt recharge.

 

And that is completely disregarding the snowball effects of me getting that OS, along with the possibility of his teammate spawning at this time on one of the very exposed spawn points nearby.

 

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I don't disagree with the award being given.  It is one of the only disks that provides 4 huge Campaigns into one disk.  Now, multiplayer wise, we'll just keep quiet about that.

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