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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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I was wondering whether to put this in the MCC thread, but it's just too big of post to be buried in ten minutes. That would be a waste.

 

 

 

This mostly isn't 343i's fault. Let's take a look at the Wikipedia page for the game.

 

 

 

We see here that 343i is only responsible for some interfaces, and networking. It is vague about that, so let's just conjecture they are responsible for matchmaking with that.

 

So, okay, you can be frustrated at 343i for matchmaking. I get that.

 

But what about the rest? You can't be, not really.

 

Certain Affinity and Saber Interactive were responsible for CE. Weapons rotated wrong? Blood Gulch loading in all corrupted? One player controlling two screens in splitscreen? That's on them. They ported it, they didn't catch it in test, it's their bloody fault and they screwed the pooch.

 

They too were responsible for H2/A. It escapes the top of my head of what is specifically wrong with their port of that, but whatever IS wrong, that's also on them. (Not gonna lie. As buggy and convoluted as Halo 2 Vista was, I wished they would have just ported O.G H2 over H2V.)

 

Halo 3? That's on Ruffian. Sandbox template lacking shaders? Games inexplicably ending early? Yeah, I hope you're getting the picture now.

 

(Ironically, the bastard child of Halo received a near flawless port, when it should've hypothetically been the hardest to do, when it was so optimised for 360. Fate is a cruel mistress, isn't it? So, I guess, good job Ruffian? :trash: )

 

The awful unified interface? That'd be United Front Games. They didn't even see they left out the ability to Forge gametypes in Halo 3. Then you also have the deal with player emblems not showing up in games. All the freezing? That's on them, too. The wrong map and gametype being selected in matchmaking when it wasn't voted for? Yup.

 

 

So, as we see here, the only blame going to 343i should be matchmaking servers, and maybe some general netcode as well. The other studios had their own QA people who should have been doing...what their job description says. Unfortunately, it looks like they weren't.

 

 

And some of you might say, "343i should've known about all these things! They were the boss!".

 

...Not really.

 

First of all, the majority of 343i is working on Halo 5 for a REAL beta test ('beta' is a catch all though. This early of test is pre-alpha, no doubt about it.). Having a publicly playable pre-alpha is virtually unheard of in console games, because you have to have a lot of shit done early in development. Even then, the footage we seen looks really nice. You can tell they've been working hard. They didn't have much staff to commit to micromanaging other studios that should've been competant.

 

Second of all, it wasn't 343i's choice. They probably generally agreed to the concept of MCC, but I'm willing to bet it was the Xbox executives who made the development what it was. They gave 343i a date for Halo 5, and then they saw 343i was appropriately working dilligently to that date. Thus, they round up a ragtag of studios and think it'd be a good idea for them all to make a game together.

 

Surely, 343i themselves couldn't have made the date for MCC with a fraction of their staff. Microsoft thought the remedy would be a metric fuck ton of devs from any studio working on it. As you can see, that was an awful idea. Ever heard of the saying, "Too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the meal."? That's what happened right here. You really can NOT put so many studios together and expect good work. All of them have a unique culture and style of development, and trying to make them play nice together for such a big project with relative little time is not going to happen.

 

A lot of their incompetancy springs from that fact, rather than they themselves just being bad studios. Many studios+Short deadline=bad time.

 

And it WAS too short of dead line. That PR about not wanting to cut corners, so they had that huge day one patch? While not exactly a lie, this mentioned patch was obviously being worked on after the game went gold and into manufacturing, because there wasn't enough time. If they had a suitable deadline and didn't want to cut corners, it would have been on two discs. You know the trend is to put as much content on disc as possible. Look at Destiny. Bungie had part of their DLC already developed when the game went gold, so they put it on disc to reduce download time when the finished DLC was released. What I'm trying to say is, a common goal in the industry is to avoid large downloads now.

 

 

The biggest shame in all of this, is that Microsoft has painted 343i to be the scapegoat, and a lot of you believe them. Corporations do anything to make sure they themselves look good at the top. Fact of the matter is, their collaboration idea was shit and their deadline was shit. So guess what was released? SHIT. If the splash screen for MCC was honest, the company logos in order of contribution would be Microsoft, Saber Interactive, Certain Affinity, Ruffian Games, United Front Games, Blur Studios, and THEN 343i.

 

 

I'm not a 343i fanboy or anything. They've done some shit I'm not down with, but I recongize the difference between a shit dev choice and a shit corporate choice. MCC reeks of corporate shit.

 

 

And I understand that a lot of you feel the same way. 343i has been kinda bad in the past and it's okay if you still dislike them for that. The past is the past though. What's in the present, is this corporate turd that Microsoft threw at us. They've tarnished their own cashcow for a corporate quick buck when the irony is that if it were made properly it would've made more money. Corporations are greedy and shortsighted.

 

 

All those times you've been insulting 343i for this? You should've been insulting Microsoft. Don't let this corporation trick you into hating their scapegoat. When you hate a corporation's scapegoat, they'll keep making new ones so you keep buying their products. Plus, you know, there are lots of honest people at 343i. Even the people forced to spin some PR like Bravo or Frankie. You remember those times in school when you were put into a shitty group for a group project, you tried your best, but the rest of the group failed and so you got a bad grade and the rest of the class laughed at you? That's 343i right now. You didn't like, and they don't like it.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR: Greedy corporation had a horrible idea for a quick buck and made 343i the fall guy for it. Hate Microsoft, not 343i,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay mods. I guess this will be buried in ten minutes anyway because you moved this here. Thanks.

joker_clap.gif

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At this point an apology is not enough. Sadly I don't know what 343 could do to make me feel better about what has happened to Halo. It just feels like a 24/7 bait and switch.

 

Case #1

 

First they make reach playable by adding zero bloom. 

 

Then they release halo 4.

 

Case #2

 

They announce a great game, the MCC.

 

Then they release MCC as a broken game. 

 

Case #3 

 

They hype up competitive halo and arena style combat

 

Then they reveal sprint is still in the game and reveal two "small maps". (which btw could gobble up two midships in one sitting)

 

 

I want Halo to be good, I really do, but I doubt how good Halo can be in the hands of 343i. 
 

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Has the radar always been this shit on H2C?

No its broken. There's a bug where people only pop up when they're right next to you

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343 needs to just outsource the patch. And by that I mean hire consultants to fix this fucking mess cause its clear they don't have a clue how to fix it. 

 

How funny would it be if they outsourced to Bungie, and bungie fixed it in like 13 hours? I would laugh so hard. 

 

 

#BELBUNGIEVE 

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I thought that was you! GG's by the way. Are you going to be on at all today? I took the day off because I thought the patch was going to fix things, but it didn't. I will be on trying to find customs anyways. 

 

I dunno if Im gonna play tonight. I actually have to get up in the morning. I will have all week off next week cause I have some relatively minor surgery on monday so I'll be playing a lot.

 

 

 

Legitimate request no pressure, how many paragraphs could you sum up your feelings about this "patch" with?

 

 

I could probably do it in two or three, like most of my posts. But really, what's the point? They managed to turn a resurrection into a coffin nail. It almost works now, hooray. People are trading in the game and the Halo community today isn't much bigger than it was 2 months ago, and that's the real shame.

 

While fun, Halo 1 is a shell of the xbox experience. You can do the same thing twice and get fundamentally different outcomes, which kills the best thing about Halo 1, and thats that 99% of the time when you died, it was your fault and you (or your partner) could have done something different to prevent it. Now I can lead/shoot the same way twice and get a three or a 9 shot kill depending on god knows what. It makes no sense and while it can still be fun as hell, the magic is not there for me.

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I swear the update must not be out to everyone. When I play matchmade games of Halo 1, the hit sound is completely gone from my audio, but I've heard it from other peoples mics.

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I was wondering whether to put this in the MCC thread, but it's just too big of post to be buried in ten minutes. That would be a waste.

 

 

 

This mostly isn't 343i's fault. Let's take a look at the Wikipedia page for the game.

 

 

 

 

We see here that 343i is only responsible for some interfaces, and networking. It is vague about that, so let's just conjecture they are responsible for matchmaking with that.

 

So, okay, you can be frustrated at 343i for matchmaking. I get that.

 

But what about the rest? You can't be, not really.

 

Certain Affinity and Saber Interactive were responsible for CE. Weapons rotated wrong? Blood Gulch loading in all corrupted? One player controlling two screens in splitscreen? That's on them. They ported it, they didn't catch it in test, it's their bloody fault and they screwed the pooch.

 

They too were responsible for H2/A. It escapes the top of my head of what is specifically wrong with their port of that, but whatever IS wrong, that's also on them. (Not gonna lie. As buggy and convoluted as Halo 2 Vista was, I wished they would have just ported O.G H2 over H2V.)

 

Halo 3? That's on Ruffian. Sandbox template lacking shaders? Games inexplicably ending early? Yeah, I hope you're getting the picture now.

 

(Ironically, the bastard child of Halo received a near flawless port, when it should've hypothetically been the hardest to do, when it was so optimised for 360. Fate is a cruel mistress, isn't it? So, I guess, good job Ruffian? :trash: )

 

The awful unified interface? That'd be United Front Games. They didn't even see they left out the ability to Forge gametypes in Halo 3. Then you also have the deal with player emblems not showing up in games. All the freezing? That's on them, too. The wrong map and gametype being selected in matchmaking when it wasn't voted for? Yup.

 

 

So, as we see here, the only blame going to 343i should be matchmaking servers, and maybe some general netcode as well. The other studios had their own QA people who should have been doing...what their job description says. Unfortunately, it looks like they weren't.

 

 

And some of you might say, "343i should've known about all these things! They were the boss!".

 

...Not really.

 

First of all, the majority of 343i is working on Halo 5 for a REAL beta test ('beta' is a catch all though. This early of test is pre-alpha, no doubt about it.). Having a publicly playable pre-alpha is virtually unheard of in console games, because you have to have a lot of shit done early in development. Even then, the footage we seen looks really nice. You can tell they've been working hard. They didn't have much staff to commit to micromanaging other studios that should've been competant.

 

Second of all, it wasn't 343i's choice. They probably generally agreed to the concept of MCC, but I'm willing to bet it was the Xbox executives who made the development what it was. They gave 343i a date for Halo 5, and then they saw 343i was appropriately working dilligently to that date. Thus, they round up a ragtag of studios and think it'd be a good idea for them all to make a game together.

 

Surely, 343i themselves couldn't have made the date for MCC with a fraction of their staff. Microsoft thought the remedy would be a metric fuck ton of devs from any studio working on it. As you can see, that was an awful idea. Ever heard of the saying, "Too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the meal."? That's what happened right here. You really can NOT put so many studios together and expect good work. All of them have a unique culture and style of development, and trying to make them play nice together for such a big project with relative little time is not going to happen.

 

A lot of their incompetancy springs from that fact, rather than they themselves just being bad studios. Many studios+Short deadline=bad time.

 

And it WAS too short of dead line. That PR about not wanting to cut corners, so they had that huge day one patch? While not exactly a lie, this mentioned patch was obviously being worked on after the game went gold and into manufacturing, because there wasn't enough time. If they had a suitable deadline and didn't want to cut corners, it would have been on two discs. You know the trend is to put as much content on disc as possible. Look at Destiny. Bungie had part of their DLC already developed when the game went gold, so they put it on disc to reduce download time when the finished DLC was released. What I'm trying to say is, a common goal in the industry is to avoid large downloads now.

 

 

The biggest shame in all of this, is that Microsoft has painted 343i to be the scapegoat, and a lot of you believe them. Corporations do anything to make sure they themselves look good at the top. Fact of the matter is, their collaboration idea was shit and their deadline was shit. So guess what was released? SHIT. If the splash screen for MCC was honest, the company logos in order of contribution would be Microsoft, Saber Interactive, Certain Affinity, Ruffian Games, United Front Games, Blur Studios, and THEN 343i.

 

 

I'm not a 343i fanboy or anything. They've done some shit I'm not down with, but I recongize the difference between a shit dev choice and a shit corporate choice. MCC reeks of corporate shit.

 

 

And I understand that a lot of you feel the same way. 343i has been kinda bad in the past and it's okay if you still dislike them for that. The past is the past though. What's in the present, is this corporate turd that Microsoft threw at us. They've tarnished their own cashcow for a corporate quick buck when the irony is that if it were made properly it would've made more money. Corporations are greedy and shortsighted.

 

 

All those times you've been insulting 343i for this? You should've been insulting Microsoft. Don't let this corporation trick you into hating their scapegoat. When you hate a corporation's scapegoat, they'll keep making new ones so you keep buying their products. Plus, you know, there are lots of honest people at 343i. Even the people forced to spin some PR like Bravo or Frankie. You remember those times in school when you were put into a shitty group for a group project, you tried your best, but the rest of the group failed and so you got a bad grade and the rest of the class laughed at you? That's 343i right now. You didn't like, and they don't like it.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR: Greedy corporation had a horrible idea for a quick buck and made 343i the fall guy for it. Being mad at 343i is exactly what Microsoft would prefer you do. Be mad at the suits in M$, not well meaning 343i devs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay mods. I guess this will be buried in ten minutes anyway because you moved this here. Thanks.

best post I've seen in a long time, I wish I could favorite it

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I dunno if Im gonna play tonight. I actually have to get up in the morning. I will have all week off next week cause I have some relatively minor surgery on monday so I'll be playing a lot.

 

 

 

 

 

I could probably do it in two or three, like most of my posts. But really, what's the point? They managed to turn a resurrection into a coffin nail. It almost works now, hooray. People are trading in the game and the Halo community today isn't much bigger than it was 2 months ago, and that's the real shame.

 

While fun, Halo 1 is a shell of the xbox experience. You can do the same thing twice and get fundamentally different outcomes, which kills the best thing about Halo 1, and thats that 99% of the time when you died, it was your fault and you (or your partner) could have done something different to prevent it. Now I can lead/shoot the same way twice and get a three or a 9 shot kill depending on god knows what. It makes no sense and while it can still be fun as hell, the magic is not there for me.

 

I honestly thought it was just me going insane that I couldn't grasp how to lead my shot consistently despite a lot of practicing in customs with friends. One time I'd lead by 1/2 a reticle and 3 shot, next time as you said it'd be a 9. Same game I'd lead by a full reticle and 3 a kid, next kid it'd take 6+. I'm not an old school Halo 1 player like you, I played at LANs very minimally up to this point, but I enjoyed it whenever I played on LAN. I found myself becoming incredibly frustrated with the shot lead in Halo 1 MCC and just stopped playing due to it.

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I think 343i had a lot more to do with the project management of this game then you think.

And there logo is plastered all over the game, no?

 

I'm not going to blame the programmers at 343, but I will 100% blame the management like Bonnie Ross, who undoubtedly were a part of all high level meetings and direction of this project. I also blame them for not fully testing the game as a whole. I don't think, with all the connections they have, that it would be unreasonable to think they couldn't have carved out a private network setup on the azure cloud and tested the completed game before release. I think it's the responsibility of 343 to do this final testing regardless of who they contracted work out to, it's there name on the box.

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So ten years ago when bungie released Halo 2 -  the whole online multiplayer game changed forever.

 

 

Fast forward ten years, and you would think 343 would know how to have multiplayer work, right?  you cant replicate something that worked perfectly 10 years ago?

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I swear the update must not be out to everyone. When I play matchmade games of Halo 1, the hit sound is completely gone from my audio, but I've heard it from other peoples mics.

There are still random hit sounds on grenades. It's just another bug that 343i introduced to MCC.

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I think 343i had a lot more to do with the project management of this game then you think.

And there logo is plastered all over the game, no?

 

I'm not going to blame the programmers at 343, but I will 100% blame the management like Bonnie Ross, who undoubtedly were a part of all high level meetings and direction of this project. I also blame them for not fully testing the game as a whole. I don't think, with all the connections they have, that it would be unreasonable to think they couldn't have carved out a private network setup on the azure cloud and tested the completed game before release. I think it's the responsibility of 343 to do this final testing regardless of who they contracted work out to, it's there name on the box.

I think you need to reread the post. They are the main name plastered on the box because they are the scapegoat.

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Okay mods. I guess this will be buried in ten minutes anyway because you moved this here. Thanks.

Well, as a consumer I am not really that interested in detailed business relationships and if I am a really unhappy customer it is natural to blame 343 in this case. I am pretty certain that the people at 343 would agree with me.

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Well, as a consumer I am not really that interested in detailed business relationships and if I am a really unhappy customer it is natural to blame 343 in this case. I am pretty certain that the people at 343 would agree with me.

Of course. I'm sure 343i is fully aware they're being used as the corporate scapegoat for mindless consumers to direct their hate to.

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I think you need to reread the post. They are the main name plastered on the box because they are the scapegoat.

 

I read it. I don't really agree. I don't see them as a scapegoat. They had the ability to do things right regardless of who they outsourced to, they failed. Just because they outsourced the work to people doesn't mean they didn't have the ability to CHECK THE WORK before releasing the game. that is 100% on them. And they will most likely profit greatly from the sales of this game so...

 

They are the main name on the box because THEY ARE SELLING A GAME TO MAKE MONEY FOR THEIR STUDIO and TO PROMOTE HALO 5 SALES!

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Honestly, 343's marketing is on par with Apple's.  They got everyone to pay $60 for a Halo 5 advertisement.  Brilliant.

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You essentially just responded with "but they did it first!" I rest my case...

 

 

You honestly think you are being 'manipulated'?

 

Also, your argument there was basically 'he started it!'

 

 

You're goddamn right I did. Respect is a two way street. It's clear 343/MS do not respect us otherwise we wouldn't have two shitty Halo games in a row. I believe in second chances, I really do. MCC was that chance. Hell the patch was their third for me. However it has become quite apparent that not only do they not respect us but they do not deserve it either. Respect is earned, it is not automatic. Just because their name is on the same box as Halo does not automatically mean they are entitled to our praises and good will. They have to prove to us that they can do what they promise and that is clearly not the case.

 

This community, hell every Halo community, has been incredibly vocal and passionate about Halo for the last couple years, and we have tried the nice route several times. I know that this is far from the first time everyone has discussed giving 343 'nice and polite feedback' and you know where it got us? Here. Right now. The culmination of hundred of thousands of posts and tweets have resulted in two incredibly broken and misguided games that are killing the community. That is a fact.

 

Manipulation is a perfect word for this case, and I'll explain why. Like I have been saying earlier everything 343 and crew have been pushing our way, whether it be tournaments or PR hype videos, have all given everyone the inclination that this game is complete and will kick ass. That is not the case. Our memories were manipulated. We believed that we could relive those nostalgic moments again and Halo will be Halo again; addicting, powerful, and fun. Restarting my game several times to join a custom game lobby is not fun. Starting a team slayer match 7v3 is not fun. It's manipulation, pure and simple. They manipulated their words and our minds in order to sell us a completely unacceptable and incomplete experience. How else do you want me to put it? 

 

I am frustrated. Unbelievably so. I wish I wasn't reduced to tweeting obscenities at 343 but that path Halo has taken leaves me little choice. I have posted on the MLG forums, Halo Council, and these forums as well my feedback and criticisms of the game. So has pretty much everyone else here. 'Fuck you' is the ultimate form of criticism. It is the culmination of everything this community has endured over the last couple years.

 

Yet 343/MS have continued to ignore or downplay us because some empty suits think they know what is best for Halo. They don't. Their 'business experience' has decimated this franchise and now it nothing but a shell of its former self. We've tried it their way. It hasn't worked, and their continued actions of not listening to us is just as much as a 'fuck you' from them to us as my tweet is to them. It's a two way street. It almost feels unfathomable to me how some people around here treat the catastrophic launch of this game as if it's not disrespectful. It is. There would be no way they would release this game otherwise unless they truly do not give a shit about you and me. Valve would never do something like this; for that matter neither would Treyarch. It has been shown that listening to your customers/fans produces positive results. Look at Smash; Nintendo made an adapter just so hardcore smash fans could use GameCube controllers. That is respect. Nintendo respects their fans to the point they will produce hardware just so people can play the game how they prefer. I wish the Halo community was that lucky. It's not like it is this impossible task. Other developers do, and parts of the Xbox team do it too on reddit and the Xbox forums. People wanted to snap the friends list, and you know what? We got it. We gave them feedback and they listened. So why is it seemingly impossible for 343 to do the same?

 

So to me at this point 343/MS's constant behavior and actions are purely on them alone. They honestly believe they know what we want better than we do and they believe that their ideas are superior to ours, and to me that's the biggest 'fuck you' of them all.

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The best compensation possible for me would be delay H5 for a year so they can polish the shit out of it.

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Of course. I'm sure 343i is fully aware they're being used as the corporate scapegoat for mindless consumers to direct their hate to.

Regardless of who made what, someone at 343 still OKd the game to go gold. Someone or someones at that studio looked at what the outsourced labor and their own teams were telling them, looked at the deadline, and said "Fuck it, we'll just patch this shit later."

 

This fiasco is ultimately their fault.

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I think you need to reread the post. They are the main name plastered on the box because they are the scapegoat.

 

How can they possibly be the scapegoat? 

 

If a company goes out and hires other companies to redistribute some of their work to, it is 100% the original companies fault for not making sure everything was completely functional. 

 

343 hired/contracted those other companies right? It is on 343's shoulders to make sure everything else works right, otherwise go out and contract a different company

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Of course. I'm sure 343i is fully aware they're being used as the corporate scapegoat for mindless consumers to direct their hate to.

I read it. I don't really agree. I don't see them as a scapegoat. They had the ability to do things right regardless of who they outsourced to, they failed. Just because they outsourced the work to people doesn't mean they didn't have the ability to CHECK THE WORK before releasing the game. that is 100% on them. And they will most likely profit greatly from the sales of this game so...

 

Their the main name on the box because THEY ARE SELLING A GAME TO MAKE MONEY FOR THEIR STUDIO and TO PROMOTE HALO 5 SALES!

+1

 

And if the MCC have been a huge success 343 had taken all the glory.

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