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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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4 minutes ago, Jake Teh Nub said:

Literally EVERY match I play there is always one person not playing

The idling countermeasures are so poorly thought out. The only time it could ever affect anything is when you're in someone else's party, and it would prevent that person from searching. Like...that's NOT the problem. The problem is one guy, alone, setting down his controller while MCC searches game after game after game without booting him.

Either detect he's idle and boot him and have it count as a quit, or get rid of stupid ass rolling search. Literally no one needs that. It takes one button press to search for a game. That's not asking too much. Getting rid of rolling search eliminates a HUGE percent of idling.

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3 hours ago, Hard Way said:

The idling countermeasures are so poorly thought out. The only time it could ever affect anything is when you're in someone else's party, and it would prevent that person from searching. Like...that's NOT the problem. The problem is one guy, alone, setting down his controller while MCC searches game after game after game without booting him.

Either detect he's idle and boot him and have it count as a quit, or get rid of stupid ass rolling search. Literally no one needs that. It takes one button press to search for a game. That's not asking too much. Getting rid of rolling search eliminates a HUGE percent of idling.

The solution is just too obvious for 343. C’mon now. 

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3 hours ago, Hard Way said:

The idling countermeasures are so poorly thought out. The only time it could ever affect anything is when you're in someone else's party, and it would prevent that person from searching. Like...that's NOT the problem. The problem is one guy, alone, setting down his controller while MCC searches game after game after game without booting him.

Either detect he's idle and boot him and have it count as a quit, or get rid of stupid ass rolling search. Literally no one needs that. It takes one button press to search for a game. That's not asking too much. Getting rid of rolling search eliminates a HUGE percent of idling.

But what if one guy searches then leaves his controller? 

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5 hours ago, Sitri said:

None of the Halo games are, they just use projectiles that reach their maximum range near-instantly. To the average person it might as well be hitscan, though.

Lol not even h5? I mean in h5 with the pistol no matter what range if your reticule is on em it hits 

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2 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Lol not even h5? I mean in h5 with the pistol no matter what range if your reticule is on em it hits 

It's hitscan. Bungies doesn't use ray casting tech so they crank the projectile values up super high so that they cross any playable distance within 1 tick. Calling it projectile isnt really accurate to the functionality.

 

And I know some people here before have brought up Halo 2 being projectile but until someone can show me a split screen clip where they shoot their guest player and the damage is delivered on separate frames, it's hitscan.  I've tested it literally at the maximum range before the bullets disappear. 

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Getting genuinely upset that because some people on reddit who barely know how the game works complained, objective Reach BTB games seem to be primarily AR starts.

I've played Reach BTB regularly since 2010 and the state that it's in on MCC right now is horrific.

The map weighting is absolutely awful (an example being that horrid maps like Superstition for whatever reason are very weighted in heavies). Some good maps like Trident and Mt Lam Lam don't appear at all. And I just can't believe that AR starts is included in Reach BTB in any meaningful capacity.

It feels awful seeing Reach BTB be in the state it's in on MCC. It's an utter disgrace.

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You saying you want to get cross-mapped DMR'd by people using a mouse? Reach is the one Halo that I would rather have AR starts with since you get a pistol too.

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Just now, Jake Teh Nub said:

You saying you want to get cross-mapped DMR'd by people using a mouse? Reach is the one Halo that I would rather have AR starts with since you get a pistol too.

I play on Xbox, I couldn't give a shit about what happens on PC. AR starts in Reach BTB is fucking absolutely horrible to play, I want my DMR back.

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3 hours ago, TI Inspire said:

I play on Xbox, I couldn't give a shit about what happens on PC. AR starts in Reach BTB is fucking absolutely horrible to play, I want my DMR back.

Ummm isn’t there an option to play precision starts only? 

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8 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

It's hitscan. Bungies doesn't use ray casting tech so they crank the projectile values up super high so that they cross any playable distance within 1 tick. Calling it projectile isnt really accurate to the functionality.

 

And I know some people here before have brought up Halo 2 being projectile but until someone can show me a split screen clip where they shoot their guest player and the damage is delivered on separate frames, it's hitscan.  I've tested it literally at the maximum range before the bullets disappear. 

U bad at testing and even the clip u posted last time was >1frame on 30fps which is why you switched it to shield damage which i dont even remember if it lined up with even the bullet lines. And The lines appear >1 frame after the sound plays.  Bungie put whack ass code to make headshots reg as bodyshots under 400 units but not past 400 units when it would result in a trade. 
 

modders can just delete and change the value from 400 to 1 and walk into be bullets. And when changed to 800 or 1200 or 3000, shots “reg” better because shots arrive faster

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14 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

But what if one guy searches then leaves his controller? 

Either detect he's idle and boot him and have it count as a quit,”

Christ you’re bad at reading...

H5 already does this perfectly.

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4 hours ago, Riddler said:

U bad at testing and even the clip u posted last time was >1frame on 30fps which is why you switched it to shield damage which i dont even remember if it lined up with even the bullet lines. And The lines appear >1 frame after the sound plays.  Bungie put whack ass code to make headshots reg as bodyshots under 400 units but not past 400 units when it would result in a trade. 
 

modders can just delete and change the value from 400 to 1 and walk into be bullets. And when changed to 800 or 1200 or 3000, shots “reg” better because shots arrive faster

I know we've had this conversation many times before ahaha which is fine, I don't mind. 

 

You bring up the consistency the shots landing a lot in this discussion but networking is a funny thing, and possibly cranking the value up does have some untestable effect but that's hardly pertinent. I'm aware dropping the values also slow the projectile. Like I mentioned, I know the tech they're using is for projectile. But calling it projectile is disingenuous because it implies you need to lead shots and you don't. 

I pulled that clip I posted into Sony Vegas and slowed if down and the first frame the BR fires the other player receives damage. There was no delay, and one step further apart meant the br bullets despawned, that was max range. Whether it being 30 fps is a weird argument considering the original Halo 2 was also at 30 fps so if the only hope of ever seeing bullet delay is cranking up the frame rate, going to max possible range, and gaining 1 FRAME of travel time, that's not projectile lol that's hitscan. Call of Duty always tells people they're games are projectile as well but it's at such an extreme range it never matters. 

 

If you can show me the code for changing body shots to headshots I'll believe you but that sounds really farfetched. Like I said, just post a clip where damage is delivered on your split screen guest on a separate frame that's all I want to see lol. Because I've tested this all at the max ranges and it never happens. 

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59 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Either detect he's idle and boot him and have it count as a quit,”

Christ you’re bad at reading...

H5 already does this perfectly.

Idling takes time. And if a single motion happens on the device they stay. Heck’s some people put their controllers upside down so the analog stick is tilted or they put a rubber band.

In MCC only time a player will be prevented from rolling is if they were afk a whole match which is unfortunate. H5 did it better yes but it’s obvious 343 can’t implement the mechanic into MCC UI so easily.

p.s don’t be rude 

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23 minutes ago, Reamis25 said:

Idling takes time. And if a single motion happens on the device they stay. Heck’s some people put their controllers upside down so the analog stick is tilted or they put a rubber band.

In MCC only time a player will be prevented from rolling is if they were afk a whole match which is unfortunate. H5 did it better yes but it’s obvious 343 can’t implement the mechanic into MCC UI so easily.

p.s don’t be rude 

Rocket League has a system to prevent that. The game actually has to detect different sets of inputs to not be kicked. If I hold R and left for an entire match I will get kicked for being idle. 

Edit: How does everyone feel about join-in-progress for social games? I know it hasn't been in past Halo games and I can't even remember if it was in Halo 5 but I think for social games it would be a good idea

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1 hour ago, JordanB said:

Rocket League has a system to prevent that. The game actually has to detect different sets of inputs to not be kicked. If I hold R and left for an entire match I will get kicked for being idle. 

Edit: How does everyone feel about join-in-progress for social games? I know it hasn't been in past Halo games and I can't even remember if it was in Halo 5 but I think for social games it would be a good idea

JIP was implemented in H4 (which, if memory serves, treated all playlists as social) and it was done so poorly. You were pretty often going to join a match on the losing team, and because the join and load time took so long the other team had plenty of time to kill the 3-man opposition and gather the power weapons. Most horrendously, you would occasionally JIP as a party of 4 into a game where the entire other team had already quit, leaving you against a 4 man squad that had roughly 30 seconds to a minute to completely setup on the map. Don't get me wrong, coming back and winning some of those games is satisfying, but against good opposition it seriously handicaps the incoming players.

JIP should be implemented in the same manner as League. If you quit and try to re-search, it automatically puts you into the game you just quit from. Additionally if you are disconnected from a match, you can rejoin the game in progress, potentially saving your team from what should be a guaranteed loss. 

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18 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

It's hitscan. Bungies doesn't use ray casting tech so they crank the projectile values up super high so that they cross any playable distance within 1 tick. Calling it projectile isnt really accurate to the functionality.

 

And I know some people here before have brought up Halo 2 being projectile but until someone can show me a split screen clip where they shoot their guest player and the damage is delivered on separate frames, it's hitscan.  I've tested it literally at the maximum range before the bullets disappear. 

I don't have a test, or even a clip I can show you, but I can say I've had many times over the years where my shots registered better in H2 when I was leading. It was probably due to latency, sure, but it does prove that it's more than just notionally projectile. A splitscreen test could never show that.

3 hours ago, JordanB said:

Rocket League has a system to prevent that. The game actually has to detect different sets of inputs to not be kicked. If I hold R and left for an entire match I will get kicked for being idle. 

Edit: How does everyone feel about join-in-progress for social games? I know it hasn't been in past Halo games and I can't even remember if it was in Halo 5 but I think for social games it would be a good idea

Just make JiP opt-in. Have a check box in the search screen. Provide an XP/credit incentive for games joined in progress (and a bigger one if you win), and inform the user that they will get into games faster if the box is checked.

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@Hard Way that is actually what is the most likely culprit since you mentioned it - the netcode. It's possible the player position isn't being networked and updated properly so you essentially have to lead (I've seen this before in other hitscan games) and it can give the illusion of projectile. There's a lot of funkiness that can go on with online play which is why the split screen test is valuable in this case. That's how the game "truly" is performing, anything online is a deviation of that. I think there's just a general delay and a lot of registration issues in Bungie titles. 

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16 hours ago, Reamis25 said:

Ummm isn’t there an option to play precision starts only? 

That only applies to slayer. If you search with objective gametypes selected, those objective games are probably going to be AR starts. It's absolutely ridiculous, and makes those gametypes pretty much unplayable.

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7 minutes ago, TI Inspire said:

That only applies to slayer. If you search with objective gametypes selected, those objective games are probably going to be AR starts. It's absolutely ridiculous, and makes those gametypes pretty much unplayable.

Really? All my obj modes have been dmr starts. 

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1 hour ago, Reamis25 said:

Really? All my obj modes have been dmr starts. 

Well I was playing with a team of 8, so I didn't see the selected game modes. But there's only one mode marked as having AR starts, and that's auto slayer. I don't know, all I know is that in Reach BTB, AR starts is absolutely horrible.

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56 minutes ago, TI Inspire said:

Well I was playing with a team of 8, so I didn't see the selected game modes. But there's only one mode marked as having AR starts, and that's auto slayer. I don't know, all I know is that in Reach BTB, AR starts is absolutely horrible.

I think you need to ensure to uncheck auto starts. I don’t think that’s tied to slayer only

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No they added it in because it had a lower quit rate, less ties, and hit the score limit more often. I still think it’s gross though.

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20 hours ago, II AdamanT II said:

JIP was implemented in H4 (which, if memory serves, treated all playlists as social) and it was done so poorly. You were pretty often going to join a match on the losing team, and because the join and load time took so long the other team had plenty of time to kill the 3-man opposition and gather the power weapons. Most horrendously, you would occasionally JIP as a party of 4 into a game where the entire other team had already quit, leaving you against a 4 man squad that had roughly 30 seconds to a minute to completely setup on the map. Don't get me wrong, coming back and winning some of those games is satisfying, but against good opposition it seriously handicaps the incoming players.

JIP should be implemented in the same manner as League. If you quit and try to re-search, it automatically puts you into the game you just quit from. Additionally if you are disconnected from a match, you can rejoin the game in progress, potentially saving your team from what should be a guaranteed loss. 

This. This stops a LOT of the insane amount of quitters in the game. Don't allow players to leave and just join another match, while people who are actually trying to play and enjoy themselves, have to stay and get destroyed for the next 10 minutes. They shouldn't be allowed to go play and enjoy themselves either. Overwatch does this as well. For the people who quit, suspend them from searching if they don't rejoin after a certain period of time. Because some people do actually just lag out of games.

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6 minutes ago, -DeucEy- said:

This. This stops a LOT of the insane amount of quitters in the game. Don't allow players to leave and just join another match, while people who are actually trying to play and enjoy themselves, have to stay and get destroyed for the next 10 minutes. They shouldn't be allowed to go play and enjoy themselves either. Overwatch does this as well. For the people who quit, suspend them from searching if they don't rejoin after a certain period of time. Because some people do actually just lag out of games.

I’d like that as well and let’s do what overwatch does for rank. After certain amount of quits overwatch straight up bans you from playing ranked for that season. It’ll sure teach people to not to quit and to play the game. Although I’d only be ok with that if we don’t have a shit ton of disconnects like we had with h5. Gosh h5 I’ve never DC’d in any game compared to that. I’ve played indie games with better servers. And to prevent smurfing you must be level 25 like OW to play ranked. This doesn’t prevent smurfing but it does a decent job of not having a whole bunch. People should have to play the game first so they’re a decent level of competence before playing ranked. Because some people just straight up play ranked immediately without knowing anything! 

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