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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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I'll restoke the conversation :) I love slayer, and I think the gametype works excellently so long as the core mechanics of the game carry enough depth. I look at additional objective modes as a necessary evil for shallow games that wouldn't work without them.  I'd use pro COD as a reference point to show how exclusively kill based modes just don't work inside that envelope, whereas Quake or CE can live fine without them.

 

Also player count plays a large role in determining what works best here. A 32 vs 32 kill based mode would be silly, there's no focus there. Objective gives it direction. I think conversely the lower the player count dips the less objective makes sense, and I've struggled to think of enticing 2v2 objective modes for years now. 3v3 probably marks the turning point between kill based or objective based just thinking about it from a mathematical perspective. 

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@MultiLockOnI think this would be a good place to start for playlists:

 

FFA - 1v7 - arena maps 

Slayer - 2v2 - forge maps 

Objective - 4v4 - arena maps 

Squad - 6v6 - medium maps 

Invasion - 9v9 - large maps 

 

Arena maps could be reused when the Hardcore playlist is eventually released.  Medium maps are good for Team Snipers.  Large maps showcase heavy vehicles.  

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23 minutes ago, Boyo said:

@MultiLockOnI think this would be a good place to start for playlists:

 

FFA - 1v7 - arena maps 

Slayer - 2v2 - forge maps 

Objective - 4v4 - arena maps 

Squad - 6v6 - medium maps 

Invasion - 9v9 - large maps 

 

Arena maps could be reused when the Hardcore playlist is eventually released.  Medium maps are good for Team Snipers.  Large maps showcase heavy vehicles.  

I can dig it. Purpose building is always great for the quality of design but Halo has usually lived on the opposite end of the spectrum where every map plays every gametype and has some flexibility in player count (Turf in H2 was in the 1v1 playlist and the BTB playlist). You sacrifice some quality for quantity. Opposite end of the spectrum is OW where every map works for a single gametype and that's it. There's value to both, and I think it really depends how efficient your development team is at creating. 

 

 

343 is not efficient. 

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6 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

I'll restoke the conversation :) I love slayer, and I think the gametype works excellently so long as the core mechanics of the game carry enough depth. I look at additional objective modes as a necessary evil for shallow games that wouldn't work without them.  I'd use pro COD as a reference point to show how exclusively kill based modes just don't work inside that envelope, whereas Quake or CE can live fine without them.

 

Also player count plays a large role in determining what works best here. A 32 vs 32 kill based mode would be silly, there's no focus there. Objective gives it direction. I think conversely the lower the player count dips the less objective makes sense, and I've struggled to think of enticing 2v2 objective modes for years now. 3v3 probably marks the turning point between kill based or objective based just thinking about it from a mathematical perspective. 

Exactly this. There isn't any objective gametypes that I can think of in the context of Halo that are viable for a 1v1, 2v2, and FFA format. People that dislike slayer as a gametype in Halo most likely dislike playing Halo in a 1v1, 2v2, and FFA format.

As for 3v3 there are modded objective gametypes for Halo 1 NHE that have 7 second respawns that play pretty well in a 3v3 format. On OG Halo 1 you can only select from instant, 5 seconds, 10 seconds, and 15 seconds for a respawn time. A 7 second respawn time for Halo 1 makes objective gametypes viable in a 3v3 format in Halo 1. 3v3 Chill Out Oddball on Halo 1 NHE with 7 second respawns can be a pretty fun gametype.

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3 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

I'll restoke the conversation :) I love slayer, and I think the gametype works excellently so long as the core mechanics of the game carry enough depth. I look at additional objective modes as a necessary evil for shallow games that wouldn't work without them.  I'd use pro COD as a reference point to show how exclusively kill based modes just don't work inside that envelope, whereas Quake or CE can live fine without them.

 

Also player count plays a large role in determining what works best here. A 32 vs 32 kill based mode would be silly, there's no focus there. Objective gives it direction. I think conversely the lower the player count dips the less objective makes sense, and I've struggled to think of enticing 2v2 objective modes for years now. 3v3 probably marks the turning point between kill based or objective based just thinking about it from a mathematical perspective. 

Basically this. The games you mentioned competitively have less players   than your average game. Quake is 1v1s, and CE is 2v2, and good luck making obj work in those. When you have a player count such as 4vs4 or 5v5 slayer doesn’t work. Even if power ups and weapons spawned every minute like CE, it doesn’t exactly change much. It doesn’t provide the fast action gameplay you see in objective, constant pushing, less strong holding certain positions. Guardian and lockout aren’t bad maps but from a slayer perspective they are. Many maps in many games do not play super great because of slayer and the main reason for us all is the camping like staying in one spot/area play style that slayer provides. But it’s definitely prevalent less in 2v2 though. There’s only so much depth you can bring before things start feeling cheap. One thing I’ll add is constantly being killed by rockets or some guy with overshield. There’s a bit of annoyance in these areas because deep down there’s no skill in being killed by either(lol I’m sounding like ice princess now). I think power weapons should be every 2 minutes, where power ups every 1 minute. 

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5 hours ago, Arlong said:

Guardian and lockout aren’t bad maps but from a slayer perspective they are. 

Nah, they’re pretty bad in general. Asymm obj rarely works and these two maps shine a massive light on why. Unfair spawns, item placement, map geometry. They’re pretty big clusterfucks.

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Gosh is there anyway to improve the aiming in h5? Like this games input lag is so bad. 

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1 hour ago, Arlong said:

Gosh is there anyway to improve the aiming in h5? Like this games input lag is so bad. 

I mean, are you sure it's input lag, lol. Not to be a dick but I see constant dumb buzzwords thrown around with the aiming of 5. What sense are you playing.

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1 hour ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I mean, are you sure it's input lag, lol. Not to be a dick but I see constant dumb buzzwords thrown around with the aiming of 5. What sense are you playing.

Delays when I move my stick is evidence 

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10 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Delays when I move my stick is evidence 

It could also be... Hardware, you literally playing a slug-ass deadzone, which gives your stick delay, or a combo of the two.

What's your deadzone. Inner and outer. 

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12 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

I think conversely the lower the player count dips the less objective makes sense, and I've struggled to think of enticing 2v2 objective modes for years now.

I think 2v2 Strongholds with a single plot could work. Or Reverse Tag on something really small like Warlock or H3's Lockdown.

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21 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I think 2v2 Strongholds with a single plot could work. Or Reverse Tag on something really small like Warlock or H3's Lockdown.

That actually doesn’t sound half bad, but one team would more than likely capture the hold every time one person died. I think a proper mode could be 2v2 VIP? Or regicide. 

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16 minutes ago, Arlong said:

That actually doesn’t sound half bad, but one team would more than likely capture the hold every time one person died. I think a proper mode could be 2v2 VIP? Or regicide. 

It depends. Lets just use Empire as an example. Team A gets a kill, but one guy takes damage.  They have a chance to take the plot, sure, but the living player for Team B could try to re-frag the weak guy and then have a 1v1 (soon to be a 2v1) against a player in a known position; or he could nade the guy going for the plot. Either way, Team A is making a risky play by trying to take the plot with only 1 down.

But even so, the plot changing hands several times a game is part of what would make the mode interesting.  It would still play pretty close to Slayer, but there would be no such thing as a slow game. The team without the plot would have a heightened sense of urgency to find and kill the controlling team, and the controlling team could be forced out of hiding at any moment by stepping into the plot. And a possible turnover of the obj would add an extra dilemma to power item cycles.

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1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

It depends. Lets just use Empire as an example. Team A gets a kill, but one guy takes damage.  They have a chance to take the plot, sure, but the living player for Team B could try to re-frag the weak guy and then have a 1v1 (soon to be a 2v1) against a player in a known position; or he could nade the guy going for the plot. Either way, Team A is making a risky play by trying to take the plot with only 1 down.

But even so, the plot changing hands several times a game is part of what would make the mode interesting.  It would still play pretty close to Slayer, but there would be no such thing as a slow game. The team without the plot would have a heightened sense of urgency to find and kill the controlling team, and the controlling team could be forced out of hiding at any moment by stepping into the plot. And a possible turnover of the obj would add an extra dilemma to power item cycles.

Why not use king of the hill then? That’s a mode where 2v2 obj can work decently well I’d imagine. 

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5 hours ago, Arlong said:

Why not use king of the hill then? That’s a mode where 2v2 obj can work decently well I’d imagine. 

Because 1/2 your team has to be in the hill at all times to score, which makes for some pretty lame and repetitive gameplay.

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4 minutes ago, Sitri said:

2v2 Extraction was sick

I could see that working for the exact same reasons 1-plot strongholds would work. It allows some flexibility for playing around the objective instead of shackling half your team to it.

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3 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I could see that working for the exact same reasons 1-plot strongholds would work. It allows some flexibility for playing around the objective instead of shackling half your team to it.

Yeah, objectives that don't require a player to be down for the entire scoring duration is necessary, but Strongholds just doesn't have as much potential.

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Ball was always the best 2v2 objective. Allowed mobility and adaptive play but still required dedication to the objective.

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1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Ball was always the best 2v2 objective. Allowed mobility and adaptive play but still required dedication to the objective.

Played 2v2 Chilly Ball at a Halo 1 LAN recently. Can confirm.

Hold X to pickup was revolutionary for the gametype though..

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2 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Ball was always the best 2v2 objective. Allowed mobility and adaptive play but still required dedication to the objective.

Reverse Tag needs to return.

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3 hours ago, Sitri said:

Yeah, objectives that don't require a player to be down for the entire scoring duration is necessary, but Strongholds just doesn't have as much potential.

I disagree. I think they’re both viable. Extraction just uses an all or nothing model with the countdown, whereas Stronghold gives you credit for every second you’re in control. It’s also possible to retake obj while still fighting.

You do get the benefit of having the site move around the map in Extraction though. That’s why it’d be important to choose an interesting central spot for the Stronghold so that there’s lots of viable ways to play the area.

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Doubles has always been one of Halo's strong points for me. 4v4 is the most enjoyable to watch (imo, not fact) but 2v2 has this intimacy that is very enjoyable.

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3 hours ago, Arlong said:

 

this shit auto plays and the pause button doesnt work. complete cancer

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