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So what you're saying is that AR starts are needed? 

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8 hours ago, Arlong said:

Nice to know. Geez is 1-2 bugs really that much? I’m no game developer, but I guess low numbers like 1-2 are a lot at times huh? 

Just depends on the type of bug. For example:

  • "You finished 1th" is something that can be fixed, tested and shipped in a matter of a couple hours. 
  • Having the game throw exceptions (aka when the game crashes) because of an issue of attempting to access some memory location that's supposed to be allocated but it's not, can range from very simple to complex.

Most of the developers at 343 (programming wise) are pretty competent based on how well Halo 5 was developed. I don't think they're going to be huge, it was probably just some special cases that weren't accounted for or something like that.

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That being said, there are probably still dozens of bugs still outstanding. Whenever they say something like "we have 1-2 bugs that need to get resolved" they're usually referring to like Critical level bugs, regardless of how big they are. There's probably a few dozen bugs in their backlog at all times. Probably more.

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1 hour ago, -DeucEy- said:

Just depends on the type of bug. For example:

  • "You finished 1th" is something that can be fixed, tested and shipped in a matter of a couple hours. 
  • Having the game throw exceptions (aka when the game crashes) because of an issue of attempting to access some memory location that's supposed to be allocated but it's not, can range from very simple to complex.

Most of the developers at 343 (programming wise) are pretty competent based on how well Halo 5 was developed. I don't think they're going to be huge, it was probably just some special cases that weren't accounted for or something like that.

--- 

That being said, there are probably still dozens of bugs still outstanding. Whenever they say something like "we have 1-2 bugs that need to get resolved" they're usually referring to like Critical level bugs, regardless of how big they are. There's probably a few dozen bugs in their backlog at all times. Probably more.

Ok that makes sense. Deep down as a consumer the phrase 1-2 bugs can be frustrating if that makes sense. To me that sounds like something that can get done in a day and makes me want to say “so what’s the hold up, release it already?!” This comes from being impatient but most gamers are. I think game devs should be a bit honest, and say tell the people the bugs are very difficult ones so the consumer won’t have that feeling that “it’s no big deal”. It’s just the fact 343s one of those companies that’ll have a delay and does two things regarding information regarding this. 
1. They say nothing. 2. They say something, but it sounds like a terrible excuse and you telling the people “your developers are working hard” isn’t enough to satisfy consumers. A little detail that a consumer can understand id imagine isn’t that hard, when if you tell people theirs complex bugs that take time to fix then people won’t have the “devs are lazy response”.  This isn’t particularly a 343 problem as other game companies do this, but 343 does it all the time.

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11 hours ago, -DeucEy- said:

Just depends on the type of bug. For example:

  • "You finished 1th" is something that can be fixed, tested and shipped in a matter of a couple hours. 
  • Having the game throw exceptions (aka when the game crashes) because of an issue of attempting to access some memory location that's supposed to be allocated but it's not, can range from very simple to complex.

Most of the developers at 343 (programming wise) are pretty competent based on how well Halo 5 was developed. I don't think they're going to be huge, it was probably just some special cases that weren't accounted for or something like that.

--- 

That being said, there are probably still dozens of bugs still outstanding. Whenever they say something like "we have 1-2 bugs that need to get resolved" they're usually referring to like Critical level bugs, regardless of how big they are. There's probably a few dozen bugs in their backlog at all times. Probably more.

H5's back-end shit is some of the worst programming I've ever seen in a game. The UI, networking, and Forge are a complete mess.

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I was about to say, wtf at that " Most of the developers at 343 (programming wise) are pretty competent based on how well Halo 5 was developed." statement. Running a custom lobby in H5 has a higher skill gap than the actual game itself lmao. The menu freezes for a good 20 seconds every couple minutes, crashes left and right, people lagging out etc. Also the entire REQ store cash cow and the in-game REQ stations have the slowest and buggiest UI I've ever had the displeasure to encounter. H5's backbone is complete dogshit and made them take a 5 year break from releasing games to completely overhaul it, that's how bad it is.

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23 minutes ago, Basu said:

H5's backbone is complete dogshit and made them take a 5 year break from releasing games to completely overhaul it, that's how bad it is.

Correlation not causation. 

I'd put a more likely, pseudo-tinfoilhatty pin on the fact they apparently capped out at how much content they could put in game with updates over time, memory limitations or even allocation, sorta like they saw with UE4. Making a new engine (Or as close to a new engine as you could get) for a guaranteed new console with higher specs in a certain timeframe is probably also more effective in the long term than using a more outdated engine you're effectively minimally porting and patching over every few years with logistically little in the way of improvement. One designed for a console that is three generations behind at this point. We've had to move on from UE3, one of the smoothest, well-optimized engines I've had the pleasure of playing on. It's no surprise we're trying to dip on an engine that's 15 years old.

That, and, you know. They planned on releasing a Halo 5 sequel/expansion in 2017, lol. 

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5 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Correlation not causation.  

I'd put a more likely, pseudo-tinfoilhatty pin on the fact they apparently capped out at how much content they could put in game with updates over time, memory limitations or even allocation, sorta like they saw with UE4. Making a new engine (Or as close to a new engine as you could get) for a guaranteed new console with higher specs in a certain timeframe is probably also more effective in the long term than using a more outdated engine you're effectively minimally porting and patching over every few years with logistically little in the way of improvement. One designed for a console that is three generations behind at this point. We've had to move on from UE3, one of the smoothest, well-optimized engines I've had the pleasure of playing on. It's no surprise we're trying to dip on an engine that's 15 years old.

That, and, you know. They planned on releasing a Halo 5 sequel/expansion in 2017, lol. 

I mean these limitations are still just symptoms of H5's backbone being useless. Sure it's tied to the fact that it's a 15-20 year old engine at its core, but doesn't change the fact that H5's engine is poop. It was long overdue that Halo moves to a newer engine but I'd say MCC and especially H5 showed how the "CE + lots of spaghetti code" engine really held the games back.

Also source on that 2017 expansion? Never heard of that aside from rumors surrounding the :Guardians subtitle meaning more H5:X games were on the way.

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3 minutes ago, Basu said:

I mean these limitations are still just symptoms of H5's backbone being useless. Sure it's tied to the fact that it's a 15-20 year old engine at its core, but doesn't change the fact that H5's engine is poop. It was long overdue that Halo moves to a newer engine but I'd say MCC and especially H5 showed how the "CE + lots of spaghetti code" engine really held the games back.

Also source on that 2017 expansion? Never heard of that aside from rumors surrounding the :Guardians subtitle meaning more H5:X games were on the way.

IGN reported on it in 2019 during an interview with Ross, and Gamesradar cited it recently. Was eventually shelved for Halo Wars 2.

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I'd drop Halo 5: X games too if I saw how badly it functioned and how awful the player retention/reception was. 

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I always thought the H5 item or whatever you call limit it was more a result of the Xbone being an incredibly weak fucking console more then the game itself?

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15 minutes ago, thdyingbreed said:

I always thought the H5 item or whatever you call limit it was more a result of the Xbone being an incredibly weak fucking console more then the game itself?

Most games simply would optimize the game for that console though. 

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9 hours ago, HeX Reapers said:

H5's back-end shit is some of the worst programming I've ever seen in a game. The UI, networking, and Forge are a complete mess.

Let me start off by saying I hate everything about Halo 5. I hate playing that game, I haven't played in almost 3 years.

With that out of the way, if we're talking strictly development - I would HEAVILY disagree. The difference in programming was EXTREMELY noticeable for Halo 5 vs MCC (in which MCC had an astronomical ass ton of issues haha). The UI design and functionality worked just fine. I literally have no idea what you're even talking about with the Halo 5 UI being a complete mess. I've seen like maybe three for four serious bugs come across my timeline in reference to UI. Simply not liking it is not bad programming. Can you be more specific?

Networking.. Um.. Last time I checked, MCC was the one with the network issues. There's lag sometimes but a vast majority of the games most players on Xbox live experienced were pretty good. Again, not sure what you're talking about here.

Forge, I'm actually surprised you said this because Forge was my main example of their programming ability. Do you understand how absurdly complicated it had to have been to design Halo 5's forge?? Think about all the features, all the functionality, all the different type of forge options you can include in almost every aspect... That's some SOLID development. Ever since Forge released in Halo 3, I've never given a care in the world about it but Halo 5's Forge was a work of beauty. Yes, there are instances of maps that cause frame rate drops, yes. This more than likely had to do with the amount rendered vs Level-of-Detail that is currently being generated in relation to the Xbox's CPU/GPU. However not every map is like that.

Can you elaborate a little more than just the blanket statement of "a complete mess"? Because Halo 5's development was pretty solid for the most part. And that's from the perspective of someone who hates the hell out of that game lol. A couple of bugs here and there is not "a complete mess" that's just what happens unfortunately.

2 hours ago, Basu said:

I was about to say, wtf at that " Most of the developers at 343 (programming wise) are pretty competent based on how well Halo 5 was developed." statement. Running a custom lobby in H5 has a higher skill gap than the actual game itself lmao. The menu freezes for a good 20 seconds every couple minutes, crashes left and right, people lagging out etc. Also the entire REQ store cash cow and the in-game REQ stations have the slowest and buggiest UI I've ever had the displeasure to encounter. H5's backbone is complete dogshit and made them take a 5 year break from releasing games to completely overhaul it, that's how bad it is.

The UI bugs you listed here are pretty much the main 2-3 I saw coming across my timeline that I just mentioned previously; I don't know about 20 seconds though. A bit exaggerated to be honest, it was like 1-2 seconds where it would skip lol. But the REQ store being a cash cow is something I didn't like about the game either but that's not a programming flaw, that's just a crappy design decision in which the two aren't related.

If we're going to talk about games crashing, let's not pretend that every game we've ever played doesn't have issues haha. Halo 3 on Xbox 360 used to crash a lot as well, but you never hear about that games development being complete ass.

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1 hour ago, OG Nick said:

I'd drop Halo 5: X games too if I saw how badly it functioned and how awful the player retention/reception was. 

Damn I had the balloons ready

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5 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Damn I had the balloons ready

Should've brought the bouncy house

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6 hours ago, -DeucEy- said:

Let me start off by saying I hate everything about Halo 5. I hate playing that game, I haven't played in almost 3 years.

With that out of the way, if we're talking strictly development - I would HEAVILY disagree. The difference in programming was EXTREMELY noticeable for Halo 5 vs MCC (in which MCC had an astronomical ass ton of issues haha). The UI design and functionality worked just fine. I literally have no idea what you're even talking about with the Halo 5 UI being a complete mess. I've seen like maybe three for four serious bugs come across my timeline in reference to UI. Simply not liking it is not bad programming. Can you be more specific?

Networking.. Um.. Last time I checked, MCC was the one with the network issues. There's lag sometimes but a vast majority of the games most players on Xbox live experienced were pretty good. Again, not sure what you're talking about here.

Forge, I'm actually surprised you said this because Forge was my main example of their programming ability. Do you understand how absurdly complicated it had to have been to design Halo 5's forge?? Think about all the features, all the functionality, all the different type of forge options you can include in almost every aspect... That's some SOLID development. Ever since Forge released in Halo 3, I've never given a care in the world about it but Halo 5's Forge was a work of beauty. Yes, there are instances of maps that cause frame rate drops, yes. This more than likely had to do with the amount rendered vs Level-of-Detail that is currently being generated in relation to the Xbox's CPU/GPU. However not every map is like that.

Can you elaborate a little more than just the blanket statement of "a complete mess"? Because Halo 5's development was pretty solid for the most part. And that's from the perspective of someone who hates the hell out of that game lol. A couple of bugs here and there is not "a complete mess" that's just what happens unfortunately.

The UI bugs you listed here are pretty much the main 2-3 I saw coming across my timeline that I just mentioned previously; I don't know about 20 seconds though. A bit exaggerated to be honest, it was like 1-2 seconds where it would skip lol. But the REQ store being a cash cow is something I didn't like about the game either but that's not a programming flaw, that's just a crappy design decision in which the two aren't related.

If we're going to talk about games crashing, let's not pretend that every game we've ever played doesn't have issues haha. Halo 3 on Xbox 360 used to crash a lot as well, but you never hear about that games development being complete ass.

It freezes long enough for me to consider quitting the build and restarting. I never timed it but it's more than 1-2 seconds. Also I'm not talking about REQs as a design decision, but the fact you can open a pack and then get an error, sometimes you get nothing at all and then your points get refunded etc. Or how you can enter a match but your REQs never show up so you're stuck with the blinkymagnum. Or how sometimes you buy a vehicle, get teleported to the garage and then you're stuck there for 30 seconds. What I meant in the REQ cash cow paragraph is that even the #1 thing that maybe should've been flawless to lure in kids to buy shit is still somehow slow and buggy af, I wasn't hating on them as a design decision (for once). 

Also you can't talk about H5s developmentand leave out the elephant in the room that is the aiming. I don't remember how many patches they wasted on "fixing" this issue that is still there today. Never mind that they ported the game to PC and somehow mouse aiming was even worse than that. When thousands of people are pressing start mid game to help with heavy aiming you know the developers fucked up. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Basu said:

Also you can't talk about H5s developmentand leave out the elephant in the room that is the aiming. I don't remember how many patches they wasted on "fixing" this issue that is still there today. Never mind that they ported the game to PC and somehow mouse aiming was even worse than that. When thousands of people are pressing start mid game to help with heavy aiming you know the developers fucked up. 

Or you just have a player base weirdly bent on placebo fixes to something that isn’t actually impacting the game, lol. Never forget this pressing start phase began occurring after every lost gunfight in an HCS match with no tangible benefits, even if a pro nailed every shot but just failed because of circumstance, first shot significance, etc. Almost as if people are looking for a scapegoat or a “get better quick” solution to a problem and listen to what’s actively being said regardless of validity, while not understanding the reason they failed in the first place. Almost as dumb as the claim that using a certain skin makes your aim better. Although the latter never got taken seriously, somehow.

Which is funny on its own. Because all we know pressing start did was something akin to majorly desyncing your game, if anything, having adverse effects. Hence the patch to pressing start over and over.

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2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Or you just have a player base weirdly bent on placebo fixes to something that isn’t actually impacting the game, lol. Never forget this pressing start phase began occurring after every lost gunfight in an HCS match with no tangible benefits, even if a pro nailed every shot but just failed because of circumstance, first shot significance, etc. Almost as if people are looking for a scapegoat or a “get better quick” solution to a problem and listen to what’s actively being said regardless of validity, while not understanding the reason they failed in the first place. Almost as dumb as the claim that using a certain skin makes your aim better. Although the latter never got taken seriously, somehow.

Which is funny on its own. Because all we know pressing start did was something akin to majorly desyncing your game, if anything, having adverse effects. Hence the patch to pressing start over and over.

Sure you could say people are sheep for believing the "press start to reset aiming" thing, but the fact of the matter is that the aiming in H5 had to be cancerous in the first place in order to lead people to even consider adapting weird habits like pressing start, deleting all their REQs etc. Did people in H2A or H4 do any of that shit? Hell no. Of course people love their excuses and shit, but I've never seen a mechanic that was so bad and caused so much headcasing as H5's aiming. The regular occurance of people having "a sense crisis" is another symptom of it.

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Halo is in such a destitute state that players have to resort to a placebo to "fix" the basic mechanic of moving your reticule around because the developer is either too incompetent to fix it, too stupid to even notice the difference, or too stubborn to reverse what they changed from the beta - a change literally no one asked for.

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42 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Halo is in such a destitute state that players have to resort to a placebo to "fix" the basic mechanic of moving your reticule around because the developer is either too incompetent to fix it, too stupid to even notice the difference, or too stubborn to reverse what they changed from the beta - a change literally no one asked for.

Tempted to go towards the latter. The code for the aiming never left their repository; they simply just never reverted it. They could simply cherry pick commits from their Git/Svn/Etc repository and call it a day, but again it seems like something they just didn’t do — In which it could be a case of the fact it wasn’t the actual programmers decision to do so. Because again, it’s not like they no longer have the code from that point in time. There’s zero chance of that being the case. Nevertheless I agree, the aiming was complete ass but apparently something they wanted. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Basu said:

Sure you could say people are sheep for believing the "press start to reset aiming" thing, but the fact of the matter is that the aiming in H5 had to be cancerous in the first place in order to lead people to even consider adapting weird habits like pressing start, deleting all their REQs etc. Did people in H2A or H4 do any of that shit? Hell no. Of course people love their excuses and shit, but I've never seen a mechanic that was so bad and caused so much headcasing as H5's aiming. The regular occurance of people having "a sense crisis" is another symptom of it.

Again, design decision. Not programming decision which is what I keep trying to reiterate makes a distinct difference. With the points you made with the UI, while true, it did have its problems, it’s easy to point 3-4 bugs that occurred every once in a while; again, slightly exaggerated because even as a person who didn’t care/play about Warzone, I still opened all my packs whenever I got them and maybe saw the error.. Idk, 4-5 times out of like 500? It was probably a server or connection issue. 
 

The aiming was probably the worst in the franchise but again, another design decision which I don’t think I’m seeming to get across to everyone as what I thought was good programming. There’s a distinct difference and the people who thought the aim was “too squirrelly” were more than likely not the same people who actually submitted the code. There aren’t many developers in the industry that could actually CODE a game like Halo 5 from scratch, that’s just entirely too much work. The forge team had a monolithic project on their hands and for the amount of features that existed in Forge, it was pretty exceptional if you ask me. I went to school and work professionally with 3D development (C++ primarily, but a little C# when I’m doing front end work) and it’s is EXTREMELY complicated so yes, I also understand Forge wasn’t 100% perfect but can we also agree that it was about 90%? Because that’s what I’m getting at here. And Forge continued to get better and better as time went on, it’s not like they shipped it and called it a day. 
 

Same with the UI. I would venture to say that no one has a clip of the UI freezing for more than a second or two, I’m just gonna be honest man. Like I’m acknowledging the fact that it definitely did have its skips but for me to sit here and be disingenuous and say that it freezes for like 20 seconds at a time when I can actually understand why certain hiccups may exist, would just be outright dishonest. 

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And just let me be clear: Fuck Halo 5 and every multiplayer design decision that was made in that game.

Halo was a big part of my life and was actually the primary reason I went to school for 3D Simulation Programming. However, Halo 4 and Halo 5 absolutely destroyed my love for the franchise to the point where I almost had to rebuild my love for gaming in general because it was such a big part of my life. 

I wouldn’t have my current career without it. 
I wouldn’t have travelled across the country from 16-21 to both compete in and work for MLG all those years. 
I wouldn’t have made all the friends I did and joined the TeamBeyond forums if I didn’t love this franchise; I’d probably somewhere lost in the sea of Reddit disgustingness if it wasn’t the case. 
 

To see Halo in the state that it’s in, saddens the crap out of me and the moment I see anything stupid Ike Armor Abilities in Halo Infinite, I can assure you I’m NOT buying it. Just sucks to see Halo in the hands of people who don’t care where it came from. 

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3 hours ago, Basu said:

Sure you could say people are sheep for believing the "press start to reset aiming" thing, but the fact of the matter is that the aiming in H5 had to be cancerous in the first place in order to lead people to even consider adapting weird habits like pressing start, deleting all their REQs etc. Did people in H2A or H4 do any of that shit? Hell no. Of course people love their excuses and shit, but I've never seen a mechanic that was so bad and caused so much headcasing as H5's aiming. The regular occurance of people having "a sense crisis" is another symptom of it.

Or it just had to be different enough for people to bitch and find a reason to complain. That’s about all you need in a game for people to go insane now, lol. A difference. We know the aiming’s biggest “problems” in air quotes were accel curves. It wasn’t actually breaking the game, given we have and had consistent senses to use, and specific skill brackets, but we just noticed it a fuckload because your turn overall is radically different than say, 4 as a result of how the game plays. And that in turn results in the insane rabbit hole we see. I don’t really think it’s evidence to anything bar psychology taking its toll. 

Granted, I don’t really know what to feel. This is the same community that didn’t recognize older Halo’s aiming being broken for the better part of two decades. And only mass complained around 2018. And while I’m not saying we can’t find some problems while not seeing others, it’s so suspect to me that we went through a trilogy, Reach, and 4 and just now (back then) in 2015 drew a line for 5’s aiming specifically. Very suspect. I don’t think accel curves shifting when you do a full 180 is as large as the lack of a diagonal turn option in a game notorious for jumping and moving to the side. But lol.

On that note. Throwback Friday on when I called out said aiming here. People swore I was nuts and then low and behold, we get a patch for it years down the line tackling the specific problem I noted in every title. >:)

 

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7 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Or it just had to be different enough for people to bitch and find a reason to complain. That’s about all you need in a game for people to go insane now, lol. A difference. We know the aiming’s biggest “problems” in air quotes were accel curves. It wasn’t actually breaking the game, given we have and had consistent senses to use, and specific skill brackets, but we just noticed it a fuckload because your turn overall is radically different than say, 4 as a result of how the game plays. And that in turn results in the insane rabbit hole we see. I don’t really think it’s evidence to anything bar psychology taking its toll. 

Granted, I don’t really know what to feel. This is the same community that didn’t recognize older Halo’s aiming being broken for the better part of two decades. And only mass complained around 2018. And while I’m not saying we can’t find some problems while seeing others, it’s so suspect to me that we went through a trilogy, Reach, and 4 and just now (back then) in 2015 drew a line for 5’s aiming specifically. Very suspect. I don’t think accel curves shifting when you do a full 180 is as large as the lack of a diagonal turn option in a game notorious for jumping and moving to the side. But lol.

On that note. Throwback Friday on when I called out said aiming here. People swore I was nuts and then low and behold, we get a patch for it years down the line tackling the specific problem I noted in every title. >:)

 

Seriously wtf are you on? The aiming in every halo worked fine even halo 3s. H3 may of had acceleration problems but it wasn’t game breaking to the point where doing a simple turn felt slow. In halo 5 the heavy aim is very noticeable, especially to anyone with a decent shot. The patch you’re speaking of simply improved the aiming inputs to what h4&2 had, that didn’t mean h1-reach were broken, these were just better. It’s also fair to note that h5 doesn’t have the aiming inputs and accel curves that the modern aiming update mcc has. I quit halo 5 because of the atrocious aiming, a game which Tbh I don’t hate because of all the ability nonsense(though I’d prefer it without that junk). In h1-4 I know when I lose a battle because of my aim, but in h5 it’s mostly because the inputs are all fucked up! And also no it wasn’t the same for everyone, heck’s I can watch plenty of videos and see some people aren’t nearly as affected as I am. One of the reason heavy aim is so prevalent was the connection to servers(h5 has some terrible servers I swear) and the majority of the halo player population is eastern and since I’m in WA, I’m shit out of luck. 

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27 minutes ago, -DeucEy- said:

Tempted to go towards the latter. The code for the aiming never left their repository; they simply just never reverted it. They could simply cherry pick commits from their Git/Svn/Etc repository and call it a day, but again it seems like something they just didn’t do — In which it could be a case of the fact it wasn’t the actual programmers decision to do so. Because again, it’s not like they no longer have the code from that point in time. There’s zero chance of that being the case. Nevertheless I agree, the aiming was complete ass but apparently something they wanted.

At this point I reeeaalllly wouldn't put it past 343 to have accidentally deleted an entire commit branch.

1 minute ago, Arlong said:

Seriously wtf are you on? The aiming in every halo worked fine even halo 3s.

I'm just gonna go ahead and say that H3's and H5's aiming feel exactly the same to me, and that's the singular reason I stopped playing both games.

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13 minutes ago, -DeucEy- said:

Tempted to go towards the latter. The code for the aiming never left their repository; they simply just never reverted it. They could simply cherry pick commits from their Git/Svn/Etc repository and call it a day, but again it seems like something they just didn’t do — In which it could be a case of the fact it wasn’t the actual programmers decision to do so. Because again, it’s not like they no longer have the code from that point in time. There’s zero chance of that being the case. Nevertheless I agree, the aiming was complete ass but apparently something they wanted. 

 

 

Again, design decision. Not programming decision which is what I keep trying to reiterate makes a distinct difference. With the points you made with the UI, while true, it did have its problems, it’s easy to point 3-4 bugs that occurred every once in a while; again, slightly exaggerated because even as a person who didn’t care/play about Warzone, I still opened all my packs whenever I got them and maybe saw the error.. Idk, 4-5 times out of like 500? It was probably a server or connection issue. 
 

The aiming was probably the worst in the franchise but again, another design decision which I don’t think I’m seeming to get across to everyone as what I thought was good programming. There’s a distinct difference and the people who thought the aim was “too squirrelly” were more than likely not the same people who actually submitted the code. There aren’t many developers in the industry that could actually CODE a game like Halo 5 from scratch, that’s just entirely too much work. The forge team had a monolithic project on their hands and for the amount of features that existed in Forge, it was pretty exceptional if you ask me. I went to school and work professionally with 3D development (C++ primarily, but a little C# when I’m doing front end work) and it’s is EXTREMELY complicated so yes, I also understand Forge wasn’t 100% perfect but can we also agree that it was about 90%? Because that’s what I’m getting at here. And Forge continued to get better and better as time went on, it’s not like they shipped it and called it a day. 
 

Same with the UI. I would venture to say that no one has a clip of the UI freezing for more than a second or two, I’m just gonna be honest man. Like I’m acknowledging the fact that it definitely did have its skips but for me to sit here and be disingenuous and say that it freezes for like 20 seconds at a time when I can actually understand why certain hiccups may exist, would just be outright dishonest. 

Appreciate the detailed reponse. The thing is though that 343 tried multiple times to "fix" the aiming and failed. They never said it was a design decision aside from Ghost's "squirelly" copypasta. Sounds more like a bug than a feature to me, but maybe you're right and it's working as intended and they once again lied about it.

@TheIcePrincess Not saying you're wrong, but aside from H3's grid aiming no one ever complained about OG Halo's aiming. I think the actual "suspect" thing here that you're hating on CE and 2's aiming and not that people are such smoothbrains that they never noticed that the aiming in those games sucks lol. It's obviously all subjective and if H5's aiming works for you more power to you. But if a large part of the community ranging across all skill levels and online plaforms says the aiming is garbage there might be something more to it.

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

Seriously wtf are you on? The aiming in every halo worked fine even halo 3s. H3 may of had acceleration problems but it wasn’t game breaking to the point where doing a simple turn felt slow.

Every Halo up to Reach didn’t have proper diagonal senses, so, no it didn’t work fine. We just tolerated it without standards being set given these are early console shooters. Prime shit for that being CE’s apparently native 20% dead zone when you can’t even go that high in most modern console games with dead zone settings. Accel is the least of my concerns with 1-3. Not being able to accurately trace a target at an angle that isn’t a straight line is, however. Hence what the patch did and why I even brought it up. 

I also highly doubt you get roasted by heavy aim. I’m farther than you are from any proper data center (assuming this causes it) and I can maybe count heavy aim occurrences on one hand. That’s being generous. And I literally play a crackhead sense that would make it more noticeable than people playing on 3, lol. What’re you playing on. And what’re your dead zone settings.

2 hours ago, Basu said:

Not saying you're wrong, but aside from H3's grid aiming no one ever complained about OG Halo's aiming. I think the actual "suspect" thing here that you're hating on CE and 2's aiming and not that people are such smoothbrains that they never noticed that the aiming in those games sucks lol. It's obviously all subjective and if H5's aiming works for you more power to you. But if a large part of the community ranging across all skill levels and online plaforms says the aiming is garbage there might be something more to it.

I’m not one for appeals to popularity but this is literally why the MCC patch happened. A ton of people bitched about CE to 3’s aiming compared to 4/2A. To where a patch not even intended to exist was formed for it. Fixing the very thing I’d spoken about years before. I don’t think I’m crazy to have complained, especially in hindsight when my problem got patched.

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