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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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I still vividly remember the exact moment I stopped giving SMG starts any benefit of the doubt. Didn’t even make it out of November yet, back in 04. It was Coagulation, and I spawned way out from my base with no cover, with only an SMG and a single nade. There was a wraith nearby that had just killed my teammate and was coming for me. I was totally defenseless. And before I could even die to it, I got sniped. 


I was 17, and I had only been playing online shooters for a handful of months, and I understood right then and there how important it is to have a decent weapon off spawn. I understood how much harder the other team would have had to work to get this type of control, and how much more careful they’d have to be to keep it. I don’t understand why it takes people so long to figure this concept out.

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I specifically said unironically posting or asking for stats gets a weeks ban and within three days of me taking a break from here someone drops stats lol.

Edit: Yeah there goes a page of reactionary posts. 

Halo is pretty dead right now guys, so unless it gets really stupid in here it's pretty loose.

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5 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

You've said this a few times but the magnum barely killed faster than automatics in that game. Autos had random spread and headshot multipliers. The difference between all headshots and all body shots was only 1 shot. And there was no shield system so you'd just hit your 1 headshot and then body spam the rest. The game clearly has Halo inspiration and I suppose it is "close"to it but I don't know if I'd look to it for inspiration for anything. 

Yes and I stand by that’s opinion. Also it’s changed, they’ve improved the weapon balance a bit, removed most of the spread on the magnum. Overall it’s still a good comparison. If halo had the splitgate pistol and AR power I promise you a lot of people would be happy.  The AR wouldn’t be seen as useless or weak, and the magnum wouldn’t be seen as op or one gun game nonsense.

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Don't worry about ruining the experience. According to a few reddit posters it's okay that the game snowballs hard and it's halo why shouldn't the team that gets map control win

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33 minutes ago, Stoppabl3 said:

However there was a sort of "perverse" enjoyment of killing players unable to fight back, it was equivalent to shooting grunts in campaign.

This is the best way to explain it LMAOOO

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21 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

Don't worry about ruining the experience. According to a few reddit posters it's okay that the game snowballs hard and it's halo why shouldn't the team that gets map control win

It's an arena shooter. You're supposed to control power weapons. Just like Quake.

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10 hours ago, Hully said:

bEcAuSe NoW wEaPoNs On ThE mAp ArE aCtUaLlY uSeFuL.

The translation is that people don't like to feel like they aren't good at the games they're playing, and nothing deletes the skillgap like starting with spray and pray weapons. 

Yeah, the people bitching about muh wEaPoN VaRiEtY have never played an actual Halo game. No Halo game outside of maybe CE and H5 have much weapon variety.

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1 hour ago, Stoppabl3 said:

Finished around two games of AR BTB last night and it was mostly what I expected. Massive quit outs early in the match, with vehicles running around rampant, players crouching around corners with rockets, and the sniper became even more op then I ever anticipated. In my game of hemorrhage I grabbed both the NR and DMR and preceded to hang out on the side of the map picking off spawners as they helplessly threw grenades and tickled me with pistols. There were plenty of moments of players hopelessly sprinting to the vehicles praying for me to miss my shots before they can enter. They couldn't shoot back at me at all, even if they were going for the rifles by the time they got to them I had 4 shots in them already. It was a massacre... I can not imagine how broken this will be with a competent team, it's baffling how this got into matchmaking.

However there was a sort of "perverse" enjoyment of killing players unable to fight back, it was equivalent to shooting grunts in campaign. But that gets old super quick and even quicker for the ones on the grunt side of the engagement. Part of me wants to roll in this playlist with a solid team but then again I'm afraid of giving 343 the impression of players being interested in this type of gameplay. 

Dude I’ll hop on. My GT is Friezas wraith. 

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42 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Yeah, the people bitching about muh wEaPoN VaRiEtY have never played an actual Halo game. No Halo game outside of maybe CE and H5 have much weapon variety.

They do when you have no fucking idea what you should be using...

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57 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Yeah, the people bitching about muh wEaPoN VaRiEtY have never played an actual Halo game. No Halo game outside of maybe CE and H5 have much weapon variety.

We shouldn’t confuse “what is” with “what should be”.  Shouldn’t Halo have a greater number of viable weapons outside the utility and power weapons?  There’s a whole sea of possibilities between four shotting and instakilling, right?  

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18 minutes ago, Boyo said:

We shouldn’t confuse “what is” with “what should be”.  Shouldn’t Halo have a greater number of viable weapons outside the utility and power weapons?  There’s a whole sea of possibilities between four shotting and instakilling, right?  

I don't think anyone's arguing that Halo's sandbox couldn't be better. However currently, there's not a single Halo game where starting without the utility weapon is anything other than a race to control said utility weapon and see which team can snowball first. In an ideal game every weapon would have a real, viable purpose (CE minus the needler) but that just isn't how Halo has been designed. Also, I really, really doubt Infinite will be any better. The "weapon variety" we're most likely to see is multiple utility weapons that all serve the same core purpose just in slightly different ways from one another. 

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22 minutes ago, Boyo said:

We shouldn’t confuse “what is” with “what should be”.  Shouldn’t Halo have a greater number of viable weapons outside the utility and power weapons?  There’s a whole sea of possibilities between four shotting and instakilling, right?  

I agree, was just noting that H5 and CE have the greatest pool of usable weaponry. 

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21 minutes ago, Hully said:

I don't think anyone's arguing that Halo's sandbox couldn't be better. However currently, there's not a single Halo game where starting without the utility weapon is anything other than a race to control said utility weapon and see which team can snowball first. In an ideal game every weapon would have a real, viable purpose (CE minus the needler) but that just isn't how Halo has been designed. Also, I really, really doubt Infinite will be any better. The "weapon variety" we're most likely to see is multiple utility weapons that all serve the same core purpose just in slightly different ways from one another. 

Which at the same time isn’t a bad thing. It’s still offering some form of variety. The only difference between the pistol and DMR is a range difference which isn’t wrong. 

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I feel like we are confusing THE utility weapon with A precision weapon.  The entire sandbox is balanced around the SPAWN utility weapon but there can be multiple precision weapon PICK UPS.  Just because the Light Rifle shoots straight does not make it a utility weapon, it’s a precision weapon pick up.  Longer unscoped killtime, shorter scoped killtime than the utility.  

 

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2 hours ago, _Synapse said:

I agree, was just noting that H5 and CE have the greatest pool of usable weaponry. 

With H5's being usable for the wrong reasons.

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2 hours ago, Boyo said:

I feel like we are confusing THE utility weapon with A precision weapon.  The entire sandbox is balanced around the SPAWN utility weapon but there can be multiple precision weapon PICK UPS.  Just because the Light Rifle shoots straight does not make it a utility weapon, it’s a precision weapon pick up.  Longer unscoped killtime, shorter scoped killtime than the utility.  

 

The light rifle is a utility weapon. 

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12 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

The light rifle is a utility weapon. 

Huh.

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The point of an AR should not be to "compete" with something like the pistol in a Halo game. The point of something like the AR is to give new players a weapon to play with against other new players. It's a "noob" weapon because it's easy to land shots with. For that very reason, it should have no chance against a better player with the utility weapon. You can't balance it otherwise. When noobs play against other noobs, they can spray each other with the AR and still have fun. They can also attempt to pick up a more skilled weapon and try to get better, but it will be more challenging for them (and help ensure that it's not just about getting the better weapon, but also becoming a more skilled player). 

Not every weapon will be equally useful at every skill level, and that's OKAY. All of this, unfortunately, relies on an actual skill-gap in aiming and controlling a weapon, as well as starting players with the utility weapon and the noob weapon. 

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26 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Huh.

A utility weapon is just a jack of all trades, master of none.  Take away the visual of the Light Rifle and look at what it actually is in Halo 5.  It's the pistol, but better in just about every way.  More auto aim at all ranges, better zoom, better kill time.  Just because it has a longer range scope doesn't make it a longer range weapon because it does everything short range just as well a the pistol does.  It's just a better utility weapon.  As is the Carbine.  The BR and DMR were as well for most of Halo 5 but the last update made them perform kinda funky.  The DMR has less AA up close than the  magnum but it's actually a 2 shot-beat down so honestly it is the better close range weapon, I think it just fires a tad bit slower now.  The BR just has stupid recoil that no one likes and it feels like crap to shoot.

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31 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

The point of an AR should not be to "compete" with something like the pistol in a Halo game. The point of something like the AR is to give new players a weapon to play with against other new players. It's a "noob" weapon because it's easy to land shots with. For that very reason, it should have no chance against a better player with the utility weapon. You can't balance it otherwise. When noobs play against other noobs, they can spray each other with the AR and still have fun. They can also attempt to pick up a more skilled weapon and try to get better, but it will be more challenging for them (and help ensure that it's not just about getting the better weapon, but also becoming a more skilled player). 

Not every weapon will be equally useful at every skill level, and that's OKAY. All of this, unfortunately, relies on an actual skill-gap in aiming and controlling a weapon, as well as starting players with the utility weapon and the noob weapon. 

The AR should be the spray-to-beatdown weapon at low levels because of the forgiving AA, and at higher levels it can act as the secondary. Faster swap time, fast reload, quick camo, faster melee, maybe more forgiving melee hitbox too. That fits perfectly into the sandbox without stepping on the toes of the other weapons.

I wish post 2004 Bungie and 343 would understand that not every weapon needs to a mid-range hitscan melting machine to be useful.

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@MultiLockOn If we’re going to call all decent precision weapons utility weapons, what do you want to call the precision weapon that you spawn with by default?  Not to get all semantical but the Light Rifle is utilitarian, not the “utility weapon”.  

In terms of sandbox design, don’t you think all other weapons need to be designed around the “default off spawn precision weapon”?  Unless you’re in favor of loadouts, the Light Rifle is a pick up.  Being a pick up, it should have some advantage over the default off spawn precision weapon.  

Halo can only have one utility weapon because it’s the standard that all other weapons are measured against.  The utility weapon is in a different category than all other weapons because you spawn with, not pick it up off the map.  If you want to make up a new name for that weapon we can but I thought we already had the term:  utility weapon.  

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15 minutes ago, Boyo said:

@MultiLockOn If we’re going to call all decent precision weapons utility weapons, what do you want to call the precision weapon that you spawn with by default?  Not to get all semantical but the Light Rifle is utilitarian, not the “utility weapon”.  

In terms of sandbox design, don’t you think all other weapons need to be designed around the “default off spawn precision weapon”?  Unless you’re in favor of loadouts, the Light Rifle is a pick up.  Being a pick up, it should have some advantage over the default off spawn precision weapon.  

Halo can only have one utility weapon because it’s the standard that all other weapons are measured against.  The utility weapon is in a different category than all other weapons because you spawn with, not pick it up off the map.  If you want to make up a new name for that weapon we can but I thought we already had the term:  utility weapon.  

There are a lot of incorrect assumptions being made here. 

 

A weapon is not a utility weapon because you spawn with it. A weapon is a utility weapon because of its functionality. You SHOULD spawn with a weapon that can defend you in all circumstances and do everything, otherwise snowballing ensues. Thus, the utility weapon is the weapon that makes the most sense to spawn with.  The halo 2 smg is not a utility weapon. The h2 carbine IS a utility weapon despite the fact you never spawn with it. 

 

The magnum, LR, Carbine, DMR, and BR are all utility weapons. You could choose any one of those, delete the rest and the Halo 5 sandbox would improve. The only real difference is the ease of use between them. The kill times and functionality are all in the same ball park. 

 

Yes, everything should be designed around the utility weapon as the standard. Being a pickup should not make a weapon straight up better, that's how you end up with Halo 5s sandbox. It's snowbally, it devalues the skill of the utility weapon, its shallow, and it breeds redundancy. You should pick up other weapons because they're different, not because they're flat out better. Thus the rifle redundancy in Halo 5 is a problem.

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