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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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4 minutes ago, _Synapse said:

Question: Do people really like NBNS Reach that much? I can see NBNS FFA maybe being fun, but 4v4 Reach is some of the most teamshot-focused garbage I've played. I swear to god, playing with anything less than a 3-person party and being in setup 24/7 gets you obliterated in a millisecond. 

It doesn't help that the maps are actual trash and most play specifically around the hyper-teamshot oriented meta. Countdown is torture to play anything on, Zealot is extremely difficult to make a comeback on if you get pinned under your base, Battle Canyon and Penance got mistakenly put into the rotation by some visually-challenged employee at 343, Sanc is too teamshot-based and it's impossible to retake ring without rockets and at least one communicating teammate, Pit is decent but once again too setup-oriented. 

Why the fuck is saturation and contrast so low, and why is visual clutter so high? It's incredibly irritating to get shot by someone you can't see despite them being IN FRONT of you on Battle Canyon. How do you go from the HCE/H2 version, to this? 

Why's movement so un-fucking believably bad that even hardcore settings feel like your Spartan has a 200-Kilogram weight strapped to his back? Strafe is oddly good, but the times that you'll actually be able to get into a DMR 1v1 are extremely far and few in between, because of the meta in Reach. 

Why are grenades shallow hand-nukes again? They're not even that versatile or full of utility, they just have a ******edly huge blast radius and long throw arc that encourages people to toss 50 of these into an area without being punished for it. It makes red and blue landing, the supposed power positions on Zealot, an absolute death trap if someone spawns behind you.


It's not even funny. Vanilla settings Halo 3 with AR starts are marginally more fun to play. 

343, for the love of god don't use Reach as a base template for Infinite. 

Rant over

They should use Spartan Assault.

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2 hours ago, _Synapse said:

343, for the love of god don't use Reach as a base template for Infinite. 

Or CE, or 2, or 3.

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1 hour ago, Ember Celica said:

Follow ODST it is.

I feel like H2A gets overlooked a lot.

Sure it has issues, but its realistically the only thing 343i has made that I relatively enjoyed. Add some maps, weapons, reduce magnetism and auto aim across the board, could be pretty decent.

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39 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

H2A is a bone-dry version of H2. Pass.

I mean I don't disagree. I would ultimately prefer building something off the original trilogy, but realistically the closest thing 343i has created to that is either mythic H5, which is just a timed playlist made by a couple guys, or H2A, which a larger portion of 343i has built and put time into.

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9 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Question: Do people really like NBNS Reach that much? I can see NBNS FFA maybe being fun, but 4v4 Reach is some of the most teamshot-focused garbage I've played. I swear to god, playing with anything less than a 3-person party and being in setup 24/7 gets you obliterated in a millisecond. 

It doesn't help that the maps are actual trash and most play specifically around the hyper-teamshot oriented meta. Countdown is torture to play anything on, Zealot is extremely difficult to make a comeback on if you get pinned under your base, Battle Canyon and Penance got mistakenly put into the rotation by some visually-challenged employee at 343, Sanc is too teamshot-based and it's impossible to retake ring without rockets and at least one communicating teammate, Pit is decent but once again too setup-oriented. 

Why the fuck is saturation and contrast so low, and why is visual clutter so high? It's incredibly irritating to get shot by someone you can't see despite them being IN FRONT of you on Battle Canyon. How do you go from the HCE/H2 version, to this? 

Why's movement so un-fucking believably bad that even hardcore settings feel like your Spartan has a 200-Kilogram weight strapped to his back? Strafe is oddly good, but the times that you'll actually be able to get into a DMR 1v1 are extremely far and few in between, because of the meta in Reach. 

Why are grenades shallow hand-nukes again? They're not even that versatile or full of utility, they just have a ******edly huge blast radius and long throw arc that encourages people to toss 50 of these into an area without being punished for it. It makes red and blue landing, the supposed power positions on Zealot, an absolute death trap if someone spawns behind you.


It's not even funny. Vanilla settings Halo 3 with AR starts are marginally more fun to play. 

343, for the love of god don't use Reach as a base template for Infinite. 

Rant over

It scratches a very specific itch for PC players who have left console behind. Classic Halo has a unique flow in that it is procedural but still retains enough fluidity and individual play making ability. The fact that you can actually roll through games quickly is also a huge bonus compared to say CS which is an hour commitment at least or Overwatch which has a 10 min queue time with a gamble on the quality of the experience.

You are right there are plenty of flaws that age has made more apparent and I think everyone who is still playing can see them quite clearly. But honestly for the most part the expectation is a lot lower, no one is pinning their hopes and dreams on a hardcore playlist of a port of a failed remake of the first mediocre Halo experience. Personally I'm just rolling a few games, seeing some old names and taking some heads off - it's fun enough.

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10 hours ago, _Synapse said:

Question: Do people really like NBNS Reach that much? I can see NBNS FFA maybe being fun, but 4v4 Reach is some of the most teamshot-focused garbage I've played. I swear to god, playing with anything less than a 3-person party and being in setup 24/7 gets you obliterated in a millisecond. 

It doesn't help that the maps are actual trash and most play specifically around the hyper-teamshot oriented meta. Countdown is torture to play anything on, Zealot is extremely difficult to make a comeback on if you get pinned under your base, Sanc is too teamshot-based and it's impossible to retake ring without rockets and at least one communicating teammate, Pit is decent but once again too setup-oriented. 

Why the fuck is saturation and contrast so low, and why is visual clutter so high? It's incredibly irritating to get shot by someone you can't see despite them being IN FRONT of you on Battle Canyon. How do you go from the HCE/H2 version, to this? 

Why's movement so un-fucking believably bad that even hardcore settings feel like your Spartan has a 200-Kilogram weight strapped to his back? , but the times that you'll actually be able to get into a DMR 1v1 are extremely far and few in between, because of the meta in Reach. 

Why are grenades shallow hand-nukes again? They're not even that versatile or full of utility, they just have a ******edly huge blast radius and long throw arc that encourages people to toss 50 of these into an area without being punished for it. It makes red and blue landing, the supposed power positions on Zealot, an absolute death trap if someone spawns behind you.

 

Rant over

Generally agree. 1.6s perfect kill time is a complete joke. Idk why MLG decided to go with the 5sk DMR for v7 because that think might as well be called the designated teamshot rifle. Probably to appeal to statters and montage kids who love to sit at health pack on Sanc with sniper, imagine getting shot by a four shot kill rifle halfway across the map! Broken! Granted this isn't much faster than the "golden age" of H2/3 with the BR at 1.4s TTK, but why stick to what's broken if you can easily fix it? Dumbass play by MLG.

Reach nades have always been a joke. They're probably balanced solely around armor lock, evade and jetpack. Bungie never imagined people might be running around the map at BMS. MLG even uses 120% movement but grenades are still your most powerful tool, then melee and then the DMR. Lol.
Generally agree about Reach's map pool being a huge pile of steaming shit but this:

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Battle Canyon and Penance got mistakenly put into the rotation by some visually-challenged employee at 343,

made me physically recoil though. WHAT? MLG put these maps in my dude. They are also good maps, it's just that the weapon layout, pathetic starting weapon and useless movement just make them play much worse than they should. Up BMS and strafe accel, use a 4sk DMR. Then on BC put 1 minute camo in blue cave, remove the red sniper, put rockets where they used to be. Penance: 1 minute camo in red, rockets in pit, improve visibility in green.

Either way the map is likely getting removed soon because "asyms bad".

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Strafe is oddly good

What game are you playing?

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Maps and settings aren’t two mutually exclusive elements that don’t affect each other.  If new settings make a map play poorly then that map is no longer a good map (for that game).  

If settings make it so I can jump from my base to top mid then Midship is no longer a good map for that game.  

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2 hours ago, Boyo said:

Maps and settings aren’t two mutually exclusive elements that don’t affect each other.  If new settings make a map play poorly then that map is no longer a good map (for that game).  

If settings make it so I can jump from my base to top mid then Midship is no longer a good map for that game.  

You're not wrong, I guess it's just a matter of perspective. It makes sense in the context of creating a competitive map rotation for that specific game, but on the other hand this logic could give you the impression that the maps we've been given ever since Reach are bad only because the settings suck, which is obviously not true. You can absolutely rate maps independent of the game they are featured in, at least to an extent.

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3 hours ago, Basu said:

Generally agree. 1.6s perfect kill time is a complete joke. Idk why MLG decided to go with the 5sk DMR for v7 because that think might as well be called the designated teamshot rifle. Probably to appeal to statters and montage kids who love to sit at health pack on Sanc with sniper, imagine getting shot by a four shot kill rifle halfway across the map! Broken! Granted this isn't much faster than the "golden age" of H2/3 with the BR at 1.4s TTK, but why stick to what's broken if you can easily fix it? Dumbass play by MLG.

Reach nades have always been a joke. They're probably balanced solely around armor lock, evade and jetpack. Bungie never imagined people might be running around the map at BMS. MLG even uses 120% movement but grenades are still your most powerful tool, then melee and then the DMR. Lol.
Generally agree about Reach's map pool being a huge pile of steaming shit but this:

made me physically recoil though. WHAT? MLG put these maps in my dude. They are also good maps, it's just that the weapon layout, pathetic starting weapon and useless movement just make them play much worse than they should. Up BMS and strafe accel, use a 4sk DMR. Then on BC put 1 minute camo in blue cave, remove the red sniper, put rockets where they used to be. Penance: 1 minute camo in red, rockets in pit, improve visibility in green.

Either way the map is likely getting removed soon because "asyms bad".

What game are you playing?

10000% agreed on TTK. Even thought Halo 2 and 3 have their own flow of combat which I find satisfying, Ideal TTK should be something between 0.8-1 second. Have been playing around with the Halo 4 BR a bit, and the TTK would be fantastic if the weapon weren't so incredibly easy to use in that game. 

My main issues with Penance is that there's one major room that holds all map power, and you need an extremely coordinated 4-man push to even think about breaking said setup. Battle Canyon is a little too visually cluttered, but I really hate the way a person on top arch can drop into the "pocket" on arch if he's low on shields. I also think the map is too snowbally, because the moment you manage to get the enemy team to spawn by the back of their base, there's little chance of them doing anything against you unless you slip up. Portal can't do anything if the team on setup is half competent, and even then, one or two people coming through port is hardly enough to deal with a team, of which two have superior firing positions, and one can pursue from behind. 

In general, adding 1 minute camo spawns to most of the asymmetrical (even a few symmetrical ones really) maps on Reach would make the maps a lot better but I really don't think it would happen. Besides, as far as old Halo modularity with movement  and sandbox went, the settings you recommend would essentially be a new game. 

To add to your suggestion, I think OS on Reach's Pit can also go in favor of 90 second camo. Sanctuary could use maybe plasma grenade spawns in shotty tunnel so that pushing ring isn't as one-dimensional. Nexus is actually somewhat more fun to play since the map doesn't treat every angle of visibility as something to be sealed off from the player (Cough Cough Countdown), but given Reach's portable nukes, I think a 90 second camo in green instead of a Grenade Launcher would serve the map better. From what I see, most people ignore bottom green despite it's utility in moving from one half of the map to the other with relative safety and only go there to pick up GL, typically focusing their attention on diamond, top red/blue and hill. It would give the map a little more depth than the admittedly fun yet-one dimensional style of play that the map has now. 

Strafe, at least IMO is great in Reach. Shit by any other game's standards, but it works well with the DMR's RoF and single shot. 

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Penance slayer is actually shit though. Like in general the map is not well designed for anything outside CE, and even in CE Damnation games take forever. 

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6 hours ago, Boyo said:

What was wrong with Sanctuary?

People shit on Sanc (the original) with literally no justification. It's a good map, with power item placement issues.

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What don’t you like about Halo 2’s movement?  

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5 hours ago, Boyo said:

What don’t you like about Halo 2’s movement?  

I cannot turn into the helicopter that I was born to be and fly around the map.

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20 hours ago, Nokt said:

I feel like H2A gets overlooked a lot.

Sure it has issues, but its realistically the only thing 343i has made that I relatively enjoyed. Add some maps, weapons, reduce magnetism and auto aim across the board, could be pretty decent.

H2a is one of the games that could very good with those exact things. Now I’d buff the autos just a bit to please the casuals, obviously add maps. Make everything projectile and reduce aim assist to h3 levels or lower. Increase the BMS. 

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Next person to unironically post stats or ask for someone's GT to check stats in order to validate their self worth gets a weeks ban.

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Speaking as probably the biggest H2 fanboy in this thread, H2A while having it's problems, was actually pretty solid.

  • Aiming was amazing, though I hate that this is actually a quality we have to actually critique these days.
  • Game is simple for casuals to pick up and be somewhat effective compared to classic H2 where lack of skill is not as forgiving.
  • If played on dedicated servers, offered an extremely consistent experience in both matchmaking and tournament settings -- Competing in the online ladders for the first time in like.. 6-7 years or so was an amazing feeling with that game.

I feel like the cons of the game are really simple/small changes honestly if you were looking to use H2A as a "base" for a future Halo game. 

  • Increase the base movement speed -- necessary
  • Add some more controller settings -- I'll be honest and say I hated H5 with everything in me (personal gripes, that's all)... But their button configurations were unmatched. I'd pick Helljumper over every button setting in every Halo that has ever existed in a split second.
  • Remove grenade hitmarkers -- I literally don't understand the purpose of this. Bullet hitmarkers are fine/don't matter.
  • Tune down the skybox lighting
  • While I mentioned this as a pro above, while the game is easy to get into, I personally think the bullet mag can be toned down somewhat. H2 already had some strong bullet magnetism and it's even stronger in H2A.

This sounds like a lot, but it's really just a matter some small tweaks as far as gameplay goes.

--------------

All that being said, I wouldn't use H2A as a base for a new Halo game lol. I'd actually use Halo 5 as the base. I say this from a Software Engineer perspective; that game is developmentally sound. I can't even lie. I just don't like the gameplay mechanics of H5, which is really a separate topic.

If we're specifically talking about what you would use as a baseline for gameplay, it's kind of difficult to answer because it depends on the aspects of the game.

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1 hour ago, Shekkles said:

Next person to unironically post stats or ask for someone's GT to check stats in order to validate their self worth gets a weeks ban.

Wow what kind of a mod are you

Post your bans-per-page

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2 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Next person to unironically post stats or ask for someone's GT to check stats in order to validate their self worth gets a weeks ban.

Okay what are you forum stats so I can see your post/ban PB ratio nerd.

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