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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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3 hours ago, Arlong said:

Pc gamers aren’t that stupid 

You seem to be mistaking "elitism" for "intelligence"

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1 minute ago, Shekkles said:

You seem to be mistaking "elitism" for "intelligence"

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Is this supposed to tell me something or what? I don’t get it.

 

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3 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Is this supposed to tell me something or what? I don’t get it.

Look at the name of the Steam group and look at what they're all playing. PC gamers think they're better than thumb twiddlers because their input choice and rig allows games more complexity in both features and play. But this means nothing. The massive majority of PC gamers drag knuckles with the rest of us.

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All in all halo is a franchise that’ll never revive. The arena games are dead people do not enjoy them. Heck’s one of the things that kept halo alive in the first place is the amazing custom games and forge that you don’t see in other games. The mentality that halo is meant to have tons of variety in weaponry is one of the biggest killers and as well as the utility weapon. The weapon variety is dogshit outside power weapons(rockets, shot gun, sword, etc). The utility weapon(pistol, DMR, BR) makes it so a player has no need for picking up other non power weapons, in halo 5s current situation picking up a BR, DMR(depends on the map but 4v4 arena it’s not useful) . The maps, the average map usually sucks in halo(especially reach) and there’s at best 5 good ones the majority liked, but in 343s current meta they have no voting or veto which would only be ok if the map pool was small like team hardcore. 
There’s stuff like controller AA and other non pc friendly elements that definitely hurt mcc reach but I don’t believe the introduction of h1&2 will help tho games popularity and population. Maybe h3 will do this but those two I’m positive it won’t. H1 is going to be a one gun game and h2 the same way, and like I said the lack of desire or need to use the weapons on the map is killing halo be cause like was stated “uneducated” opinions, BUT unfortunately these people are in the majority. Basically what I’m saying is halo is basically fucked until halo 4(a game pc players I think might enjoy since it has a better weapon balance than the other titles and the cod like elements probably will go unnoticed or people won’t care) and h3 at best. 
halo infinite had better strike a good balance because honestly halos future is hanging by a thread(obviously you guys know this last part) .

we all want 343 to pull something off, but it doesn’t look like it’s happening, and with no word on halo infinite or what’s featured in it, were in for disappointment. I’m just hoping that halo infinite will be an actual pc game with every pc feature a pc gamer expects. 

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everyone here plays or plays halo in a competitive way(ranked anything, hardcore) because halo is enjoyable with the precision starts because of the skill factors, and the strength of the tool were provided. There’s other elements like map and weapon control that help fuel this sure, but overall the spawning utility and play style it provides is what we enjoy the most. In our eyes were playing halo the RIGHT way. We’re refusing to use an AR or anything else because they’re weak, they promote a run and gun play style we don’t enjoy. The run and gun play style that autos in halo provide is something that’s rewarded in most shooters, and people despise how halo is undoable that way. The weapon balance needs to be adjusted in some way. 

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6 hours ago, Sitri said:

People want to pick a single on-map item(DMR, rockets, sniper, warthog, etc.) and get a free Frenzy against people who can't fight back. I've seen people go as far to say that Reach's sniper is useless because DMR users can fight back against it.

The most popular alt-fact on r/halo right now is that the Reach Banshee is useless because DMRs can shoot it. I kid you not, people are saying it's more balanced in Elite Slayer where literally nothing on the map can damage it. 

 

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16 hours ago, Arlong said:

The balance [of ADS] is simply to give every gun a chance at range(depending what’s the guns range can depend on that. Like medium distance.) 

 

Tightening the spread of projectiles is a rather bland way of increasing a weapon’s range.  Instead of giving all weapons ADS, give weapons without scopes Alt Fire instead.  Take the Mauler.  It doesn’t have a scope.  Its projectiles have a very short effective range.  What if the Mauler could alt fire Bruteshot rounds, extending its effective range?  Accomplishes the same thing as ADS but in a more versatile, arena fashion.  

On the Mauler, primary fire is a point blank 2sk, allowing for 1 shot plus melee kills, while alt fire is a point blank 3sk.  Primary fire and melee for up close combat.  Alt fire for enemies further away. 

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8 hours ago, Arlong said:

People detest the play style DMRS bring. One guy I was arguing with said pinnacle is ruined by DMR starts since it’s teams standing far distance popping shots off at one another. He believes it would play better with pistol. Gosh I’m tired of bloom in social. Wish I could get a no bloom playlist in social.(outside of 1v1). 

Ascension and all it's remakes are just shit maps in general. There's only two defensible positions on the entire map, and they both comprise less than 8% of it's total surface area. 

No idea which smoothbrains at 343 thought Ascension deserved a remake over Midship. 

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dont get me wrong i hate not utility weapon starts because the gameplay is terrible running around with an smr or ar as a primary. however i can see where people are coming from with getting cross mapped. i cant explain how it works but it just really feels unfun to get team shot by the dmr but at the same time feels like you cant really do much to kill people team shotting you because the dmr isnt good enough. i havnt played reach since pre title update but i hated how often i got team shot and it felt like i could do nothing because of bloom.

with halo ce it pretty much never get that frustrating feeling of being cross mapped yet the pistol is much more powerful. probably because you actually have a chance of killing someone quickly and effectively if they get the jump. while in reach once your getting cross mapped thats pretty much it. 

but you cant just get rid of utility weapon start unless had some optional mode that had skilled close quarter weapons. like gears of war 1 mp was a very skilled game and you can run around the map like a mad men because only the host could lancer you down. otherwise shotgun duels were very skilled. but the problem with halo ar duels are not skilled or shotgun isnt either really. non utilities are not designed in a way that make sense to spawn with.

 

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3 minutes ago, boogerman said:

i cant explain how it works but it just really feels unfun to get team shot by the dmr but at the same time feels like you cant really do much

Bloom increases the effectiveness of teamshot.  Multiple enemies can laser beam you with perfectly accurate first shots and you have no chance of fighting back because your weapon stops working correctly after the first shot.  

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Bloom was terribly implemented in Reach, badly designed for console AA/BM. Even post TU it was just a band aid on a terribly implemented mechanic. Having said that the base game for Reach was terrible anyway for the most part. MLG/Hardcore goes some way to showing that there is a version of Halo that works on PC satisfying that Halo itch it just lacks polish and content (namely better maps, maps that aren't 90% grey, better gametype combinations, bug fixes). The pacing also feels right without Sprint, but I don't feel developers learn that lesson until their shit version of the game fails and they're forced to compromise with what people actually want (see NBNS, Mythic Arena etc). 

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9 minutes ago, careh said:

The pacing also feels right without Sprint, but I don't feel developers learn that lesson until their shit version of the game fails and they're forced to compromise with what people actually want (see NBNS, Mythic Arena etc). 

That’s why the concurrent development of a small scale Arena experience alongside a large scale Invasion experience is the correct route.  Develop six good maps for each premiere game mode.  That’s enough to launch with.  Make Arena a faster paced, pick up centric, in your face experience.  Make Invasion an ability centric mode with heavy weapons and vehicles on a larger battlefield with bigger objectives.  

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10 hours ago, OG Nick said:

The issue here isn't really skill, it's the fact of the players being uninformed/uneducated. They believe/think that the DMR is op because the maps are shit, usually. They don't think in the mentality of someone being better, but in how it is "unfair" that they can't sprint around the map all the time. That an "Well actually a DMR shouldn't hurt the falcon because it as armor!" when it is entirely possible for a pilot to get shot in any sort of flying vehicle. Plus, space bullets. 

This is an interesting topic that I've noticed popping up in multiplayer games in general. Skill doesn't invalidate opinions, I agree. However, there seems to be a direct link between skill and knowledge for the most part. Players that are skilled tend to be more experienced which in turn leads to more exposure and knowledge/education. I see this all the time in the Destiny community. Players love to discuss things that are "balanced" or "skillful." The people that play at a lower level aren't as knowledgeable because they don't have the experience of skillful play. So, they like to champion things that are obviously broken, but they don't believe so due to their inexperience.

I think it parallels in the AR/DMR discussion but inversely with Halo. I've seen so many people decrying utility weapon starts due to things like "oh teams that get power weapons should win," or "precision and utility weapons are boring because there's no diversity." These people don't have the experience and knowledge of higher level play where thinking positioning, etc and outplaying people with a weapon bring satisfaction. They just experience the AR hold forward with no experiential knowledge and think that anything above and beyond that is broken nonsense. 

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21 hours ago, Arlong said:

In halo 2 two guys spraying their SMGS will die to a guy using a BR, and tbh that’s quite unfair(in a cqc-medium ranged distance I’ll add). 

SMGs were designed around the concept of dual-wielding. I would be surprised if properly aimed dual-wielded combinations (Needle-rifle excluded) did not have a faster TTK than a BR in CQC.

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19 hours ago, Arlong said:

people simply desire a sandbox where it doesn’t feel like they’re wrong for using an AR, and they’re not wrong for that. 

But they ARE wrong for that. If you walk around the middle of a medium to large sized map with an AR expecting to not get destroyed you are in need of education on the game dynamics.

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They should just have a mode where you spawn with no weapons. Maybe even no shields. Call it Team Scavenger or something. At least go all the way with these silly gametypes. 

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“We saw Reach become one of if not the most popular game on steam for some time when it was released on pc. Halo players showed their love for the franchise and to honor them we have an announcement for Infinite! We brought back armor lock, the most in demand way to out play your opponents!” - Bonie Ross e3 2020

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8 hours ago, Basu said:

They should just have a mode where you spawn with no weapons. Maybe even no shields. Call it Team Scavenger or something. At least go all the way with these silly gametypes. 

Do you always need to  bring a sarcastic remark regarding these topics?  

 

8 hours ago, II AdamanT II said:

But they ARE wrong for that. If you walk around the middle of a medium to large sized map with an AR expecting to not get destroyed you are in need of education on the game dynamics.

Even if they’re wrong it doesn’t escape the fact they don’t enjoy the fact that they’re wrong so instead of getting better or figuring out the right way(which I’ll add is not even a fact) they’re leaving the game and going back to the game where that worked. 
Halo is one of the only shooters out there where using an AR is a bad thing. 

 

8 hours ago, II AdamanT II said:

SMGs were designed around the concept of dual-wielding. I would be surprised if properly aimed dual-wielded combinations (Needle-rifle excluded) did not have a faster TTK than a BR in CQC.

Well guess what boy they were weaker and a BR would dominate still.

8 hours ago, AArkham said:

precision and utility weapons are boring because there's no diversity."

Right here is why the original sandbox of halo 5 was so enjoyable for many people was the variety. I understand as a competitive player wanted to spawn with the strongest weapon, but when every weapon is being used it’s not awful. Variety is what people want, it’s just when you have a utility weapon variety isn’t what you’re getting. I think as long as we spawn with a strong precision that should be fine, but a lot of competitive players hate map pick ups being stronger, so they desire them to have niche perks such as plasma rifles stun, or plasma pistols shield drain. All in all this is the result of halo having tons of weapons on the map and them all being useless/weak as shit. 

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8 hours ago, OG Nick said:

“We saw Reach become one of if not the most popular game on steam for some time when it was released on pc. Halo players showed their love for the franchise and to honor them we have an announcement for Infinite! We brought back armor lock, the most in demand way to out play your opponents!” - Bonie Ross e3 2020

I know this is a joke, but it wasn't even close. It peaked at 160k, CS:GO is hitting 800K+ every day and is growing atm. 

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17 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

Only applies to you

Basically, and fucking speaking of.

8 hours ago, AArkham said:

This is an interesting topic that I've noticed popping up in multiplayer games in general. Skill doesn't invalidate opinions, I agree. However, there seems to be a direct link between skill and knowledge for the most part. Players that are skilled tend to be more experienced which in turn leads to more exposure and knowledge/education. I see this all the time in the Destiny community. Players love to discuss things that are "balanced" or "skillful." The people that play at a lower level aren't as knowledgeable because they don't have the experience of skillful play. So, they like to champion things that are obviously broken, but they don't believe so due to their inexperience.

I think it parallels in the AR/DMR discussion but inversely with Halo. I've seen so many people decrying utility weapon starts due to things like "oh teams that get power weapons should win," or "precision and utility weapons are boring because there's no diversity." These people don't have the experience and knowledge of higher level play where thinking positioning, etc and outplaying people with a weapon bring satisfaction. They just experience the AR hold forward with no experiential knowledge and think that anything above and beyond that is broken nonsense. 

I'm glad you can say what I do without being absolutely merked, lol. Fair world.

Entirely agree, however. Obviously you'll have people who don't play who do know what works, and people who do play who don't. But I'd bet a lump sump of nice dosh the majority don't fall into this range. This doesn't mean "don't listen", it more so means "take it with a grain of salt, and acknowledge where it comes from before refusing". You could learn a lot more about why one should refuse something like this, lol. Not that I'd need to convince or argue it. But I do think skill should be taken into account with things like this, or at least acknowledged. It may not be a be all end all part of an argument, but it can speak volumes about where people come from. And I don't think it's a coincidence that time and time again, users without experience tend to rally behind weird things.

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51 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Do you always need to  bring a sarcastic remark regarding these topics?   

I'm not even sarcastic lol. AR starts is just a half-assed 343-esque solution to the "problem" of not enough weapon variety. Stuff like Team Fiesta is an actual solution. I'd imagine Team Scavenger would be as well. It's better to separate gametypes by "serious" and "fun" instead of making a shitty compromise that everyone ends up hating anyways. Same goes for map design btw.

 

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15 minutes ago, Basu said:

I'm not even sarcastic lol. AR starts is just a half-assed 343-esque solution to the "problem" of not enough weapon variety. Stuff like Team Fiesta is an actual solution. I'd imagine Team Scavenger would be as well. It's better to separate gametypes by "serious" and "fun" instead of making a shitty compromise that everyone ends up hating anyways. Same goes for map design btw.

 

You jackass you just made a suggestion for no weapons! 

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15 hours ago, Basu said:

The most popular alt-fact on r/halo right now is that the Reach Banshee is useless because DMRs can shoot it. I kid you not, people are saying it's more balanced in Elite Slayer where literally nothing on the map can damage it. 

 

These people are the kind who run around the map with ghosts and banshees in 4v4.

Seriously, "Lolol vehicles get instakilled" is the most annoying thing I've seen on that garbage fire of a subreddit. 

"What, you mean I CAN'T rush into the open in a ghost with 5 people looking directly at me? I have to use COVER and be SELECTIVE?"

Then you have Halo 3, where warthogs are so overpowered in the right hands that games can go 100-47 because of them. You couldn't shoot down a warthog with the BR, but you could get an EMP, use rockets or laser, grenade it accurately, hijack it, or use the machine gun turrets and archer missile pods to wear it down. 

Reach shouldn't have given vehicles fixed HP, but you can't do half of what you could in Halo 3 against vehicles. So, they give you the ability to shoot. Apparently that's too much. 

 

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The warthog was op AF in h3, because of the BRs spread and it being projectile 

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Question: Do people really like NBNS Reach that much? I can see NBNS FFA maybe being fun, but 4v4 Reach is some of the most teamshot-focused garbage I've played. I swear to god, playing with anything less than a 3-person party and being in setup 24/7 gets you obliterated in a millisecond. 

It doesn't help that the maps are actual trash and most play specifically around the hyper-teamshot oriented meta. Countdown is torture to play anything on, Zealot is extremely difficult to make a comeback on if you get pinned under your base, Battle Canyon and Penance got mistakenly put into the rotation by some visually-challenged employee at 343, Sanc is too teamshot-based and it's impossible to retake ring without rockets and at least one communicating teammate, Pit is decent but once again too setup-oriented. 

Why the fuck is saturation and contrast so low, and why is visual clutter so high? It's incredibly irritating to get shot by someone you can't see despite them being IN FRONT of you on Battle Canyon. How do you go from the HCE/H2 version, to this? 

Why's movement so un-fucking believably bad that even hardcore settings feel like your Spartan has a 200-Kilogram weight strapped to his back? Strafe is oddly good, but the times that you'll actually be able to get into a DMR 1v1 are extremely far and few in between, because of the meta in Reach. 

Why are grenades shallow hand-nukes again? They're not even that versatile or full of utility, they just have a ******edly huge blast radius and long throw arc that encourages people to toss 50 of these into an area without being punished for it. It makes red and blue landing, the supposed power positions on Zealot, an absolute death trap if someone spawns behind you.


It's not even funny. Vanilla settings Halo 3 with AR starts are marginally more fun to play. 

343, for the love of god don't use Reach as a base template for Infinite. 

Rant over

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