Jump to content
CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

Recommended Posts

Nothing is permanent.  Power ups have durations, grenades have limits, weapons have limited ammo.  In one way or another, these items are designed to make players move, either going to pick them up or running from being shot at.  The utility weapon ammo is the failsafe.  If all else fails to make a player move, he will eventually run out of ammo.  Ammo is a resource that needs to be managed.  If a player was truely dominating, he would be planning for the future and not allowing himself to run out of ammo by refusing to pick some up.  

Why should he have to move?  Because movement makes for more interesting gameplay.  

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Nothing is permanent.  Power ups have durations, grenades have limits, weapons have limited ammo.  In one way or another, these items are designed to make players move, either going to pick them up or running from being shot at.  The utility weapon ammo is the failsafe.  If all else fails to make a player move, he will eventually run out of ammo.  Ammo is a resource that needs to be managed.  If a player was truely dominating, he would be planning for the future and not allowing himself to run out of ammo by refusing to pick some up.  

Why should he have to move?  Because movement makes for more interesting gameplay.  

Yea. Pickups are limited because they are literally already broken garbage. And need to be limited. Grenades are funny. Why do you spawn with 2? Again, it rewards the dead player and is a big reason obj modes like KoTH play so awkwardly. The team that dies the most nades the most. Its garbage. Nades should be on a cooldown timer. Like pretty much every other game has learned. Makes no sense to keep supplying the kids that die with more nukes. 

Movement will still be there lol. If anything this just allows people the freedom to engage whoever they want. Instead of acting like it's this skill to "manage ammo" which literally promotes passive gameplay. What do people do when they have low or no ammo? Either divebomb to die or hide in a corner to melee someone to death.  Really opens up the map movement lol. Look at Lockout. People will just straight up not engage when they know ammo is limited. That is not good or fun gameplay. Again. If someone mapping you all game is annoying then beat him using the same tools hes using to dominate you. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, darkstar said:

I know dude, the irony is just tasty tbh

How old are you? I’m just curious. 

Your writing is definitely not as adequate as you might think it is. I’m not trying to talk shit or anything of the sort, I’m just being honest and impartial with you.  

It’s not as adequate because I don’t put a lot of effort in doing so.  And im on a mobile device every time I’m on here whom I’ll assume some of y’all aren’t. I’m 21 if you’re so curious, and I’ll let you decide on how that affects your opinion of my writing abilities. 

7 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Why would you think inconsistency would be anything but bad in a comp setting. That's the point of it. Inconsistency pertains to things that are determined regardless of your skill. That's a problem if you're aiming to be competitive, which, as I must disclaim, is what I speak for here.

 

 In a comp setting the inconsistency as in your players movement that’s able to dictate bullets hitting you, is actually a good thing. It offers an extra layer of skill and requires the person shooting to do more than simply place their reticule on someone’s body such as leading shots, and for the most part this is only needed at the longer ranges anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Arlong said:

 

 In a comp setting the inconsistency as in your players movement that’s able to dictate bullets hitting you, is actually a good thing. It offers an extra layer of skill and requires the person shooting to do more than simply place their reticule on someone’s body such as leading shots, and for the most part this is only needed at the longer ranges anyway. 

How is inconsistency a good thing? If most of the reason your bullets hit is based on your opponents walking the right way how is that more skillful? You cant realsitically account for it. You basically sweep shoot and guess. Sure it can be an educated guess. But its ALWAYS gonna be a guess. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
32 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

beat him using the same tools hes using 

The point of pick ups is so that players aren’t using the same tools to fight each other.  

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Boyo said:

The point of pick ups is so that players aren’t using the same tools to fight each other.  

O-kay? And pickups suck for that reason. What does that have to do with outshooting a guy that's dominating you with his utility from a certain spot? 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

You have a problem with not being able to sit in one spot and never move.  I’m just trying to explain to you why a utility weapon running out of ammo from a player that refuses to move or grab pick ups isn’t an oversight.  It’s an intentional design decision made to encourage you to move.  

What makes for a more interesting match, one where all players move or one where no players move?

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

You have a problem with not being able to sit in one spot and never move.  I’m just trying to explain to you why a utility weapon running out of ammo from a player that refuses to move or grab pick ups isn’t an oversight.  It’s an intentional design decision made to encourage you to move.  

What makes for a more interesting match, one where all players move or one where no players move?

First of all. A lot of wrong assumptions have been made here. No one said I was trying to sit in the same spot all game. Just that if no one can kill me off it I shouldn't be punished. That's not a crazy thought. Nor did I say it's why I wanted unlimited ammo. There are plenty of times you just cant get to a dead body in time. Wither due to circumstance or the weapon despawning. 

Further, it being an intentional design decision has nothing to do with anything. The snipe being as easy as it was in Reach and 5 was a design decision. Nades being stupidly powerful was a design decision. Melee lunge was a design decision. Doesnt make it a good one. 

Now that last part is funny. Because it assumes people would all just stop moving with unlimited ammo. As if map presence and spawn manipulation no longer exists. As if people wouldnt still be pushing the exact same way they do now. Because that's the most viable strat. The ammo thing is a QoL change. Pros now arent pushing BECAUSE they have limited ammo. Its not even a thought. They push because it's the most effective way to play. But sometimes, situationally, holding a certain spot is required. And punishing a dude because he is playing it too well is bad. I can turn that logic around the same way and ask that question. What's more interesting, a game where no one shoots because their ammo is too limited, or one where everyone is constantly engaging everyone they see? 

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Pros now arent pushing BECAUSE they have limited ammo

Is there any footage of this online?  

5 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

What's more interesting, a game where no one shoots because their ammo is too limited, or one where everyone is constantly engaging everyone they see

So, utility weapon pick ups placed around the map would solve your problem then?

  • Thonking (+0) 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Is there any footage of this online?  

So, utility weapon pick ups placed around the map would solve your problem then?

You really like to not respond to points and instead ask a bunch of unrelated questions. Uhhhhh. Are you insinuating that you believe the reason pros push the way they do is BECAUSE of ammo directly? Or is an actual thing they think on as a manot reason to push? Over all the other factors I mentioned? 

And to an extent. It helps. But isnt the solution. Hence why I said unlimited ammo in the first place. If you get rewarded ammo upon death then why should the person staying alive be punished and have to scavenge? How is that good for a comp game? 

Share this post


Link to post

Unrelated to topic, but recoil and camera kick for utility weapons really needs to go. I don't know for which dumbass reason Bungie decided to make your primary shake the camera every time you fire it. What was wrong with how CE's pistol and 2's battle rifle worked? Halo 3 had an annoying but tolerable amount of kick on the battle rifle, and then you have Reach. Even the PoS magnum and DMR cause the screen to have a seizure when you fire it. It doesn't add any "skill" to shooting, it's just an irritating and disorienting mechanic that makes it harder to shoot right after being surprised/naded. 

  • Like (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, My Namez BEAST said:

If you get rewarded ammo upon death then why should the person staying alive be punished and have to scavenge?

Killing the enemy gives you uncontested access to the pick ups the map has to offer.  Would you rather have a Rocket Launcher or the two frags you are given off spawn?  If you honestly think players coming off respawn have an advantage then you aren’t utilizing pick ups correctly.  

4 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

How is that good for a comp game? 

Movement is good for gameplay therefore things that encourage movement are good for gameplay.  

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Boyo said:

Killing the enemy gives you uncontested access to the pick ups the map has to offer.  Would you rather have a Rocket Launcher or the two frags you are given off spawn?  If you honestly think players coming off respawn have an advantage then you aren’t utilizing pick ups correctly.  

Movement is good for gameplay therefore things that encourage movement are good for gameplay.  

Where are you getting these scenarios from? I never even said being on respawn is an advantage. I said it gives you shit for free. 2 nades and ammo. For dying. Its bad. And is a rocket always spawning? What about rockets coming up in 30 seconds but now you have no nades and low ammo but the enemy is fully kitted and ready to artillery strike you? What about when you used your nades to get to the enemy base but when you arrive 4 enemies all have 2 ready to chuck at you as you push? We can make up situations all day. Doesnt change anything. Going for a pickup is a detour. And arguably can slow the game down when you have to take a 20 second side track over just being able to press your advantage. 

I can list a million things that "promote movement" that are shit for gameplay. Dont blanket term things and pretend it's true. It's not. Halo 5 promotes some of the fastest gameplay yet people here seem to despise it. What about a nuke rocket that spawns every minute? That kills everyone on the map instantly? I would push for it. Is that good? 

Share this post


Link to post

Players coming off respawn will likely be attacking enemies in power positions.  Giving players “free” grenades off spawn helps them assault these power positions.  The players in those power positions need grenades less than players off spawn.  That’s why it’s ok to give players grenades off spawn and not to someone who kills his enemy.  

Unbreakable power positions are not good for gameplay.  Grenades off spawn help prevent unbreakable power positions.  

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, My Namez BEAST said:

How is inconsistency a good thing? If most of the reason your bullets hit is based on your opponents walking the right way how is that more skillful? You cant realsitically account for it. You basically sweep shoot and guess. Sure it can be an educated guess. But its ALWAYS gonna be a guess. 

 

It doesn’t matter if it’s a guess, this is also physics and yes they belong in video games even sci-fi fiction ones. 

Share this post


Link to post

Shooting is always a guess. Reaction time is 200ms. Ur always guessing where theyll be 200ms in the furure if its hitscan but man if theyre 1 frame away, 216ms is INCONSISTENT. Or extrapolate to 300ms. 
 

Hitscan is simply easier to aim. Is all

  • Like (+1) 3
  • Fire (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Players coming off respawn will likely be attacking enemies in power positions.  Giving players “free” grenades off spawn helps them assault these power positions.  The players in those power positions need grenades less than players off spawn.  That’s why it’s ok to give players grenades off spawn and not to someone who kills his enemy.  

Unbreakable power positions are not good for gameplay.  Grenades off spawn help prevent unbreakable power positions.  

You...literally just explained exactly why it's so shitty lol. 

1 minute ago, Arlong said:

It doesn’t matter if it’s a guess, this is also physics and yes they belong in video games even sci-fi fiction ones. 

Fantastic argument you changed my mind. 

Share this post


Link to post

Two players spawn in on a flat plane, always facing each other when they spawn.

They both have (HITSCAN!!!) rifles, and infinite ammo.  Health is a fixed amount that does not regenerate to prevent any amount of mid-fight inconsistency.

They both strafe in opposite directions in a completely predictable pattern that is controlled by the computer and does not ever vary between matches, the only thing they are capable of doing is aiming at and shooting each other.  Once one of them kills the other a point is tallied and they both respawn facing each other so as to not introduce any randomness into the strafe pattern.  First side to 25 points wins.

In the team based mode, players would spawn in a + formation with people on the same team being top and left / bottom and right respectively, being restricted to only shooting the person directly across from them, and only being allowed to aid their teammate in their fight once they kill their own designated target first.  But again to prevent unpredictability once anyone gets a kill the remaining players would reset in a 2v1 configuration like /\ as the dead fourth person spectates.  Once the one person on the disadvantaged team dies or manages to kill his two opponents all points are tallied and everyone is again reset in a + formation. First side to 50 points wins.

Thus we can achieve the ultimate goal of eliminating as much brain-hurty depth bad game design as possible.   For a competitive shooter should never exceed the bounds of being a sterile test of pure physical reflexes.

No need to thank me for gifting you with the most competitive FPS ever conceived, just let me have 10% of all the Esports earnings as a royalty.

  • Like (+1) 4
  • Fire (+1) 2
  • Toxic (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, My Namez BEAST said:

You...literally just explained exactly why it's so shitty lol. 

Fantastic argument you changed my mind. 

The inconsistency of you being able to follow someone’s movement is realistic in literally anything. You can’t consistently predict someone’s movement because it’s impossible. But that is not a bad thing. The guns inconsistency like spread or bloom is what matters here, not the movement of someone you’re shooting. Your reticule placement or mine etc shouldn’t be the only factor in whether my shot hits or not.

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Arlong said:

The inconsistency of you being able to follow someone’s movement is realistic in literally anything. You can’t consistently predict someone’s movement because it’s impossible. But that is not a bad thing. The guns inconsistency like spread or bloom is what matters here, not the movement of someone you’re shooting. Your reticule placement or mine etc shouldn’t be the only factor in whether my shot hits or not.

So whether or not my bullets hit should be out of my control. Sounds like fun. 

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

So whether or not my bullets hit should be out of my control. Sounds like fun. 

Welcome to literally any fps. Its always prediction, always will. Until we get some ai technology that can tell our reaction time in the moment so it can rewind and see if our crosshair was on them at that point in time

  • Like (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, Ramirez77 said:

Two players spawn in on a flat plane, always facing each other when they spawn.

They both have (HITSCAN!!!) rifles, and infinite ammo.  Health is a fixed amount that does not regenerate to prevent any amount of mid-fight inconsistency.

They both strafe in opposite directions in a completely predictable pattern that is controlled by the computer and does not ever vary between matches, the only thing they are capable of doing is aiming at and shooting each other.  Once one of them kills the other a point is tallied and they both respawn facing each other so as to not introduce any randomness into the strafe pattern.  First side to 25 points wins.

In the team based mode, players would spawn in a + formation with people on the same team being top and left / bottom and right respectively, being restricted to only shooting the person directly across from them, and only being allowed to aid their teammate in their fight once they kill their own designated target first.  But again to prevent unpredictability once anyone gets a kill the remaining players would reset in a 2v1 configuration like /\ as the dead fourth person spectates.  Once the one person on the disadvantaged team dies or manages to kill his two opponents all points are tallied and everyone is again reset in a + formation. First side to 50 points wins.

Thus we can achieve the ultimate goal of eliminating as much brain-hurty depth bad game design as possible.   For a competitive shooter should never exceed the bounds of being a sterile test of pure physical reflexes.

No need to thank me for gifting you with the most competitive FPS ever conceived, just let me have 10% of all the Esports earnings as a royalty.

uhhh teamshot is bad mmmkay

  • Simms (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Guys Midship is inconsistent I once went P3 when the match started and there were two enemies but next game I went there there were THREE! Bad map.

  • Simms (+1) 1
  • Toxic (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
27 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

So whether or not my bullets hit should be out of my control. Sounds like fun. 

YES it should be. If you can’t predict them or lead properly then yes it should be out of your control, because this inconsistency isn’t the games fault it is yours, and physics like I keep mentioning also plays a part here. If a hacker uses aim bot in a projectile based game it cannot be perfect, but in hitscan it always a will be.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.