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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I mean...scoping is so you can shoot farther. That's the only dimension it adds.

I think managing your scope and your enemy’s scope is a unique and interesting mechanic for a console shooter.  It lets the player fight for every last ounce of effectiveness his weapon has to offer while simultaneously trying to deny that same thing to his enemy.  Scope/descope encourages players to use the map, say take cover for a moment to regain their scope so they can pop back out and keep fighting.  It’s a dynamic element that players are always fighting to keep for themselves and deny to their enemy.  

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

I think managing your scope and your enemy’s scope is a unique and interesting mechanic for a console shooter.  It lets the player fight for every last ounce of effectiveness his weapon has to offer while simultaneously trying to deny that same thing to his enemy.  Scope/descope encourages players to use the map, say take cover for a moment to regain their scope so they can pop back out and keep fighting.  It’s a dynamic element that players are always fighting to keep for themselves and deny to their enemy.  

Perhaps, but right now we're considering it in the context of a problem it helps create, and ultimately if you consider it long enough you have to come to the conclusion that the situation you just described is, like many things in the Halo franchise, a speed bump. Not an exceedingly pressing or detrimental one, but think about it - it literally just slows down the period in which two opponents combat each other as one adjusts and pops back into the fight.

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4 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

it literally just slows down the period in which two opponents combat each other as one adjusts and pops back into the fight.

So does reloading but weapons shouldn’t have bottomless clips.  Scope is just another resource that needs to be managed effectively for the best odds at success.  And it’s unique in the fact it is the only ability you can take away from another player.  

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15 minutes ago, Boyo said:

So does reloading but weapons shouldn’t have bottomless clips.  Scope is just another resource that needs to be managed effectively for the best odds at success.  And it’s unique in the fact it is the only ability you can take away from another player.  

Reloading is a balancing mechanic (also iMmErSiOn), which can't be said for scope/descope. At the end of the day you have to ask the question of descope, like all mechanics in the game, "how does this benefit the gameplay, what skill does this bolster or add?" Descope doesn't give anything to the player that isn't already present in the mere act of aiming, but it does promote effective combat over what can be considered unreasonable distances and makes open maps hell to traverse.

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Descope helps temper the immense power of a scoped sniper rifle.  

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12 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Descope helps temper the immense power of a scoped sniper rifle.  

True, but in the context of Utility based fights, its possible to go without.

Honestly, descoping could only be applied to weapons such as the Sniper or Light Rifle, where their power is directly linked to the scope. The Utility could possibly be made into the only exception. That's something I'd be willing to play around with, cause I feel the scope on the Utility is part of the weapons identity and contributes to its versatility.

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28 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Descope helps temper the immense power of a scoped sniper rifle.  

A 10x zoom with big maps, possibly. Zoom inherently doubles/triples/etc. the effective range of a player. If we cut apart the utility weapon's range, we could limit the sniper to a 4x zoom.

Of course this is never going to happen in Halo and is all in theory.

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24 minutes ago, The Tyco said:

Light Rifle, where their power is directly linked to the scope

Weapons with alternate fire modes linked to their scope are a great way to introduce new and powerful attacks with a built in dampener, descope.  

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4 hours ago, Arlong said:

Can you stop using the words inconsistent and consistent wrong 

Show me improper use lol.

3 hours ago, Boyo said:

So does reloading but weapons shouldn’t have bottomless clips.  

Reloading's a useless-ass fucking mechanic for utility weapons. Dunno why it exists. Given even with unlimited ammo angle spamming things is unviable. At most, reload has to fucken' go for basic combat with your utility. I'd rather they replace it with your gun auto-reloading when you get a kill. So you can just go onto the next fight if possible, without losing the ability to fight because your stupid mag size is so low. I find it actually stupid we've designed gun's kill potentials on their mag size. Dunno why we did that. It actually does nothing but hamper a player and their ability to get into engagements. 
 

Same for basic ammo. Dunno why your utility doesn't have unlimited ammo at a base. NOTHING makes me drier than the Sahara than having to map scrounge for a dumbass other gun or ammo, or even move to get myself killed to respawn with a new utility, because you don't spawn with much, even in HCS. I should never be dying because I actually run out of ammo. "Ammo conservation" shouldn't be a thing in Halo. Because ideally, you'd be burning through it, to deal damage. Dunno why we punish that.

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28 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Show me improper use lol.

Reloading's a useless-ass fucking mechanic for utility weapons. Dunno why it exists. Given even with unlimited ammo angle spamming things is unviable. At most, reload has to fucken' go for basic combat with your utility. I'd rather they replace it with your gun auto-reloading when you get a kill. So you can just go onto the next fight if possible, without losing the ability to fight because your stupid mag size is so low. I find it actually stupid we've designed gun's kill potentials on their mag size. Dunno why we did that. It actually does nothing but hamper a player and their ability to get into engagements. 
 

Same for basic ammo. Dunno why your utility doesn't have unlimited ammo at a base. NOTHING makes me drier than the Sahara than having to map scrounge for a dumbass other gun or ammo, or even move to get myself killed to respawn with a new utility, because you don't spawn with much, even in HCS. I should never be dying because I actually run out of ammo. "Ammo conservation" shouldn't be a thing in Halo. Because ideally, you'd be burning through it, to deal damage. Dunno why we punish that.

It’s the fact you think the bullets not going exactly based on reticule placement is not a form of inconsistency. A weapon that goes straight is consistent. Recoil is consistent as long as the patterns are set. Random recoil or spread is not consistent. 

 

preservering ammo is a skill, and reloading it is also. If we had overheat you’d just complain about that. Heck’s the battlefront games are right there people. Now for other arena games yeah they just spam the fuck out of their guns, with all the ammo they got in them. 

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1 minute ago, Arlong said:

It’s the fact you think the bullets not going exactly based on reticule placement is not a form of inconsistency. A weapon that goes straight is consistent. Recoil is consistent as long as the patterns are set. Random recoil or spread is not consistent. 

You misunderstand. The bullet may be firing in a certain direction 100% of the time in this way, but your enemies do not, and your range on them varies. And without a proper way to contextualize bullet delay to the user, you can't accurately, or, synonymously, consistently hit a target moving around when your bullet will not shoot straight. It is a form of inconsistency, not in the projectile's inherent travel, but in how that travel will connect with a moving target during gameplay.

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50 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

You misunderstand. The bullet may be firing in a certain direction 100% of the time in this way, but your enemies do not, and your range on them varies. And without a proper way to contextualize bullet delay to the user, you can't accurately, or, synonymously, consistently hit a target moving around when your bullet will not shoot straight. It is a form of inconsistency, not in the projectile's inherent travel, but in how that travel will connect with a moving target during gameplay.

But that doesn’t mean it’s inconsistent if your enemies movement can dictate the shot. Now the gameplay itself could be considered inconsistent in that regard, but that doesn’t make the gun or guns inconsistent.

and even so, is that inconsistency a bad thing? Is leading a big deal? How do you make the gun play hard? Nerf AA, lol in before mouse and keyboard is brought into the mix, now you really gotta figure something out. Aiming dead center on an enemy with an in game reticule is too easy, it’s why games usually aren’t like halo 5. They want the player to think a little. 

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Just now, Arlong said:

But that doesn’t mean it’s inconsistent if your enemies movement can dictate the shot. Now the gameplay itself could be considered inconsistent in that regard, but that doesn’t make the gun or guns inconsistent.

That is literally the definition of inconsistent. Your gun turns inconsistent once it's put into a normal circumstance, as it will not produce reliable results you'd see elsewhere with hitscan, regardless of your skill. Because it is the enemy's movement dictating a hit, not your actual aim. Movement that is outside of your control every moment of the game. Your gun isn't fully in your control. And produces results you may not intend for. How is that not inconsistent outside of a vacuum.

Put it this way. The LightRifle, among other guns, was made projectile for AI in Halo 5. It's hitscan everywhere else. You can get into a vehicle on Legendary or Mythic Firefight, and you can watch aimbot AI begin to miss you while you begin to move and evade, because their shot lags behind you as a result of projectile despite the fact their aim is better than any actual pro's would be. Hell, you can peek shoot Promethean soldiers on foot and replicate this with standard movement. 

If an AI that is a literal aimbot, WITH added aimbot (given some guns have homing projectiles) can't properly trace you with projectile and hit you 100% of the time when you're a wide-ass target, how in the hell would one think it's consistent on a human level, with human reactions. AI are superhuman and they can't do this. They can be on top of their game, LASO and all, literally having the ability to perceive your presence through walls to prefire you, and you could unironically outwalk or outdrive their shots. Because the shots they fire aren't fully in their control. Compare that to beam rifle or binary enemies. That have hitscan weapons. They will nuke you every single time they see you. It's a literal meme at this point in the community, spanning over a decade. And surprise, it's because they have a consistent weapon that will fuck your face. Meanwhile AI being given projectile guns in later games is a pretty big reason these games tend to be batshit easy on high difficulties. And it was hilariously easy to abuse on LASO.

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Arlong telling anyone, much less Ice, how to to write was the cherry on top of a nice day.

Bro, her and I have our differences, but she's one of the most literate, well-read people I've ever encountered. You on the other hand make me wonder if you use voice to text to compose your posts.

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15 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Arlong telling anyone, much less Ice, how to to write was the cherry on top of a nice day.

Bro, her and I have our differences, but she's one of the most literate, well-read people I've ever encountered. You on the other hand make me wonder if you use voice to text to compose your posts.

Jackass, I can write just fine, I just don’t usually write pages worth of information, since usually I don’t start topics that require that, because I know deep down people will not read it all, they’ll try to speed read it, and will not be able to see the point being made. It’s  why as a writer you need to shorten your writings. Because  one of the objectives is to keep the reader interested, humans have a low attention span and you and I are no exception to this rule. This is also an online forum, so there’s that. Most of us would rather write the long stuff on important matters. Essays, letters to friends or family, maybe even a political topic, something of the sort. 
Also my topic was the in use of consistency and inconsistencies in gun fights in halo or really any game.

another reason I don’t write very long essays of info is because I’m on mobile and I can’t type on here as fast and accurately(like grammar, or proper wording for example) as I can on keyboard. Heck’s all I use is my phone when I’m on here. 

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35 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

That is literally the definition of inconsistent. Your gun turns inconsistent once it's put into a normal circumstance, as it will not produce reliable results you'd see elsewhere with hitscan, regardless of your skill. Because it is the enemy's movement dictating a hit, not your actual aim. Movement that is outside of your control every moment of the game. Your gun isn't fully in your control. And produces results you may not intend for. How is that not inconsistent outside of a vacuum.

Put it this way. The LightRifle, among other guns, was made projectile for AI in Halo 5. It's hitscan everywhere else. You can get into a vehicle on Legendary or Mythic Firefight, and you can watch aimbot AI begin to miss you while you begin to move and evade, because their shot lags behind you as a result of projectile despite the fact their aim is better than any actual pro's would be. Hell, you can peek shoot Promethean soldiers on foot and replicate this with standard movement. 

If an AI that is a literal aimbot, WITH added aimbot (given some guns have homing projectiles) can't properly trace you with projectile and hit you 100% of the time when you're a wide-ass target, how in the hell would one think it's consistent on a human level, with human reactions. AI are superhuman and they can't do this. They can be on top of their game, LASO and all, literally having the ability to perceive your presence through walls to prefire you, and you could unironically outwalk or outdrive their shots. Because the shots they fire aren't fully in their control. Compare that to beam rifle or binary enemies. That have hitscan weapons. They will nuke you every single time they see you. It's a literal meme at this point in the community, spanning over a decade. And surprise, it's because they have a consistent weapon that will fuck your face. Meanwhile AI being given projectile guns in later games is a pretty big reason these games tend to be batshit easy on high difficulties. And it was hilariously easy to abuse on LASO.

So the movement of you or your opponent makes this inconsistent, ok fair enough, I can’t argue with you on that, since it’s true. 
So I have a question, why is this inconsistency bad? The consistency I prefer is in my gun, and skills such as leading, and predicting movement(sure predicting isn’t a perfect skill and never will be, but it’s still a skill in many matters of life). Another question if it remains that way, how do we increase the skill gap in hitting shots? I want you think about this not just from a console/controller stand point but that and mouse and key. Believe me when I tell you a simple range nerf isn’t cutting it for a mouse user. 
I’ve played BTB and the vertical recoil on the BR isn’t that bad, and it honestly does it’s job at preventing people from melting long range with utter ease. 

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1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

Arlong telling anyone, much less Ice, how to to write was the cherry on top of a nice day.

I know dude, the irony is just tasty tbh

1 hour ago, Arlong said:

Jackass, I can write just fine, I just don’t usually write pages worth of information, since usually I don’t start topics that require that, because I know deep down people will not read it all, they’ll try to speed read it, and will not be able to see the point being made. It’s  why as a writer you need to shorten your writings. Because  one of the objectives is to keep the reader interested, humans have a low attention span and you and I are no exception to this rule. This is also an online forum, so there’s that. Most of us would rather write the long stuff on important matters. Essays, letters to friends or family, maybe even a political topic, something of the sort. 
Also my topic was the in use of consistency and inconsistencies in gun fights in halo or really any game.

another reason I don’t write very long essays of info is because I’m on mobile and I can’t type on here as fast and accurately(like grammar, or proper wording for example) as I can on keyboard. Heck’s all I use is my phone when I’m on here. 

How old are you? I’m just curious. 

Your writing is definitely not as adequate as you might think it is. I’m not trying to talk shit or anything of the sort, I’m just being honest and impartial with you.  

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11 minutes ago, Arlong said:

So the movement of you or your opponent makes this inconsistent, ok fair enough, I can’t argue with you on that, since it’s true. 
So I have a question, why is this inconsistency bad? The consistency I prefer is in my gun, and skills such as leading, and predicting movement(sure predicting isn’t a perfect skill and never will be, but it’s still a skill in many matters of life). Another question if it remains that way, how do we increase the skill gap in hitting shots? I want you think about this not just from a console/controller stand point but that and mouse and key. Believe me when I tell you a simple range nerf isn’t cutting it for a mouse user. 
I’ve played BTB and the vertical recoil on the BR isn’t that bad, and it honestly does it’s job at preventing people from melting long range with utter ease. 

Why would you think inconsistency would be anything but bad in a comp setting. That's the point of it. Inconsistency pertains to things that are determined regardless of your skill. That's a problem if you're aiming to be competitive, which, as I must disclaim, is what I speak for here.

 

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5 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

At most, reload has to fucken' go for basic combat with your utility. I'd rather they replace it with your gun auto-reloading when you get a kill.

That sounds like a terrible idea, having the game force you into an animation without warning.  

5 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

get myself killed to respawn with a new utility

Every enemy you kill should be dropping utility ammo.  Not sure how you’re running out of ammo unless you are laying down massive amounts of fire and not killing anyone.  

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Her use of the word inconsistent might be gramatically correct, but I can't help but laugh every time I see that projectile is "inconsistent". What a weird concept.

Much better arguments against projectile would be things like Halo's wack netcode and 343's shit-tier servers. Or that it clashes with the aim-assist mechanics, because your reticle is dragged towards oppenents while leading requires you to aim ahead of them.

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24 minutes ago, Basu said:

Her use of the word inconsistent might be gramatically correct

It’s not.  Consistency is another word for precision and projectile weapons can be 100% precise.  

She’s using literally the only thing is the game you can’t control, other players, as some round about justification to call the weapon and its projectile inconsistent.  If she’s talking about the system as a whole, a system that includes other living, breathing people making their own independent decisions, then “inconsistent” isn’t even the right word to describe it.  Unpredictable would be more appropriate.  And if her great wisdom is that people can be unpredictable then I would agree with that simple observation.  

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5 hours ago, Boyo said:

That sounds like a terrible idea, having the game force you into an animation without warning.  

Every enemy you kill should be dropping utility ammo.  Not sure how you’re running out of ammo unless you are laying down massive amounts of fire and not killing anyone.  

Auto reload as in your mag is refilled when you get a kill lol. Not actual reloading. A way to remove reloading. 

And there are plenty of reasons why you would run out of ammo. You see it in pro games quite a bit. You're not always in a position to run to a recently killed enemy's body nor should you have to. Plus weapons despawn quickly in recent games. As well as there being no guarantee the enemy even had much ammo in the first place. So even if you do go theres a high chance the ammo is either gone or depleted. And yea, it's not uncommon to be dealing tons of damage while not getting kills. Especially in H5. In most games, the person dealing the damage is the guy that just lays down fire as his team cleans up. There is no reason to punish people laying down shots and staying alive. Plus, there are literally no magnum spawns in H5 comp. Only a few tac mags on select maps. So you dont even have a reliable way to get ammo. I dont see what it adds to the game when you allow people to become defenseless because they are dealing too much damage. Just make the ammo unlimited. 

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Ideally, you would like to be able to stay and one position and keep firing indefinitely?

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9 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Ideally, you would like to be able to stay and one position and keep firing indefinitely?

Yes? Its your job to kill him or make him move. He shouldn't be penalized because he's dominating you so hard. How does it make more sense to let someone get a free kill on the same guy that was dominating simply because he was doing too well. Meanwhile you have max ammo because you are fresh off spawn. Doesnt add up. 

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