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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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35 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Damn nation isn’t even good, it’s that CEs gameplay is what makes it good. 

Dammy is awesome though. 

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5 hours ago, OG Nick said:

Creek isn't the best map ever, but it sure is one of the better Reach maps for KOTH. Penance is straight garbage though

 

3 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Penance being probably literally the worst Halo map in history while being a remake of one of the best Halo maps in history has to be some kind of metaphor for the Halo franchise today.

Not really, people just gotten used to symmetrical "I spawn in your face" type of maps like Sanctuary and think that's everything that should exist.

But tbf the TDM gametype aka "slayer" has been treated like shit for a good while now so I guess I can't blame people too much.

Hot take: With proper settings and item layout Penance in Reach works better than Sanctuary slayer does.
Now downvote my post and rant on twitter how the next Halo game def needs a Pit and Midship remake.

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1 minute ago, Warlord Wossman said:

Hot take: With proper settings and item layout

You mean with a proper game.

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1 hour ago, Warlord Wossman said:

 

Not really, people just gotten used to symmetrical "I spawn in your face" type of maps like Sanctuary and think that's everything that should exist.

But tbf the TDM gametype aka "slayer" has been treated like shit for a good while now so I guess I can't blame people too much.

Hot take: With proper settings and item layout Penance in Reach works better than Sanctuary slayer does.
Now downvote my post and rant on twitter how the next Halo game def needs a Pit and Midship remake.

The reason people prefer those maps is because of balance. A map like sanctuary doesn’t need 30-60 second power up timers, or power weapons spawning in similar times. In order to make an asymmetrical map work, that seems to be required. Just look at damn nation, without that junk thrown in, it’s a god awful map. 

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9 minutes ago, Arlong said:

The reason people prefer those maps is because of balance. A map like sanctuary doesn’t need 30-60 second power up timers, or power weapons spawning in similar times. In order to make an asymmetrical map work, that seems to be required. Just look at damn nation, without that junk thrown in, it’s a god awful map. 

Wow, you cracked the code. Well done.

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24 minutes ago, Arlong said:

The reason people prefer those maps is because of balance. A map like sanctuary doesn’t need 30-60 second power up timers, or power weapons spawning in similar times. In order to make an asymmetrical map work, that seems to be required. Just look at damn nation, without that junk thrown in, it’s a god awful map. 

It entirely depends how strong the in control areas are, literally has nothing to do with symmetrical or asymmetrical.
This "symmetrical because balance" argument can be applied to CTF or Bomb since those are symmetrical gametypes but beyond that it's just something MLG console kids have been repeating and nobody outside of the Halo community actually believes in.

16 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Wow, you cracked the code. Well done.

Let me guess - only symmetrical maps are balanced and competitive because "the initial spawns are unfair otherwise"?

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so damnation sucks without power weapons? well halo would suck if you just spawned with an ar but thankfully we have a pistol so it works

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22 minutes ago, boogerman said:

so damnation sucks without power weapons? well halo would suck if you just spawned with an ar but thankfully we have a pistol so it works

No it sucks without 1 minute spawns. The key to making maps work in h1 are three things.
1. The magnum

2. Quick power weapon and up spawns(1 minute usually

3. Spawns. 
@Warlord Wossman YES! This is one the things that makes asymmetrical maps terrible and flat out unfair at times. Penance top is too over powered, especially green room. Heck’s reach shows without the constant power weapon and power up spawns the map is unplayable. Power positions in asymmetrical maps are too much, they’re damn near incontestable. On pit there’s many ways I can flank around without you doing a thing about it, and deep down impossible to lock down, but on an asymmetric map this isn’t the case, but therefore the game must give something back in return a power up and power weapon and the game must ensure these are worth picking up. 
 

he’ll look at high noon, the lifts and extra pathways are good for the map, but the reach gameplay and lack of power ups and weapons destroys that map, not to mention the 3X scope hitscan dmr

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6 hours ago, Arlong said:

3. Spawns. 
@Warlord Wossman YES! This is one the things that makes asymmetrical maps terrible and flat out unfair at times. Penance top is too over powered, especially green room. Heck’s reach shows without the constant power weapon and power up spawns the map is unplayable. Power positions in asymmetrical maps are too much, they’re damn near incontestable. On pit there’s many ways I can flank around without you doing a thing about it, and deep down impossible to lock down, but on an asymmetric map this isn’t the case, but therefore the game must give something back in return a power up and power weapon and the game must ensure these are worth picking up. 
 

he’ll look at high noon, the lifts and extra pathways are good for the map, but the reach gameplay and lack of power ups and weapons destroys that map, not to mention the 3X scope hitscan dmr

we have footage of high level tournament pit matches ending sub 20 kills and sub 10 kills. like i get shitting on penance, but pit is even worse. 

An OS would "solve" penance stalemates since rockets are impossible to get. doesnt work on pit because u can back up + too many places to be sniped from. only 1 snipe on penance and it being in a non safe place is also better. On penance ur whole team is top green or top shotties. And u can be pushed from 3 places. Portal can only be shot by top green. Clinky can only be shot by back green and top pistol. Top shotties can be shot by back green and top shotties. U can also get away with jetty and go to pipes. 
 

now compare that to pit where green/sword can fall back and sniper is safe to get, and flag jump up covers everything but green and theres plenty of ways to cover green, it makes it rough. If u lose snipe pushing it fucking sucks. 
 

 

tho again, both maps suck lmao. 

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4 hours ago, Arlong said:

No it sucks without 1 minute spawns. The key to making maps work in h1 are three things.
1. The magnum

2. Quick power weapon and up spawns(1 minute usually

3. Spawns. 
@Warlord Wossman YES! This is one the things that makes asymmetrical maps terrible and flat out unfair at times. Penance top is too over powered, especially green room. Heck’s reach shows without the constant power weapon and power up spawns the map is unplayable. Power positions in asymmetrical maps are too much, they’re damn near incontestable. On pit there’s many ways I can flank around without you doing a thing about it, and deep down impossible to lock down, but on an asymmetric map this isn’t the case, but therefore the game must give something back in return a power up and power weapon and the game must ensure these are worth picking up. 
 

he’ll look at high noon, the lifts and extra pathways are good for the map, but the reach gameplay and lack of power ups and weapons destroys that map, not to mention the 3X scope hitscan dmr

Symmetrical maps use power weapons to incentivize movement more than assyms honestly. Assyms definitely make for better maps in basically everything except symmetrical gametypes like CTF or Bomb.  Using dammy as an example is pretty disingenuous considering how radical that map is. 

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I mean dammy really only worked because of the CE gameplay. Its not a super big surprise in Reach that it blows since the map handles the setup for you as long as you don't just soar off the top of it for no reason. Reach is just the wrong game for that map unless you're willing to do a number of things that would make it vastly different than the rest of the map pool. Even if you fixed the power up timers, gave us a real OS, and put the weapons in a better position I don't think it would be that great. Better for sure but I'm not convinced it would be worth playing. Who actually wants to just deal with rockets, OS/camo, and snipe all the time in a game where your primary is relatively weak compared to CE just so people move their feet on that map. It would feel pretty bad trying to stop that snowball over and over when you can't fight back that easily and that's more or less why power ups and items were so slow to spawn after CE. Nobody had a problem with playing around weapons and timers but when it never ends and your utility more or less sucks its tiring 

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5sk DMR gameplay with ez mode sniper and non existent strafing kind of forces slow timers and static gameplay. If people are unwilling to change to 4sk and faster timers it would be best to just drop slayer entirely and play CTF, Bomb, Ball and King only. 

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3 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Symmetrical maps use power weapons to incentivize movement more than assyms honestly. Assyms definitely make for better maps in basically everything except symmetrical gametypes like CTF or Bomb.  Using dammy as an example is pretty disingenuous considering how radical that map is. 

You’re not wrong, but on a symmetrical map you can move around far easier without being stopped. There’s decent amount of routes you can’t cover compared to an asymmetrical map. I believe symmetrical maps work better overall, but asymmetrical has a better place in a 2v2 environment. 

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I like how you can judge how well you can control entire maps by only that one symmetry condition.

Sometimes I really wonder if you read your messages before posting.
 

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59 minutes ago, Warlord Wossman said:

I like how you can judge how well you can control entire maps by only that one symmetry condition.

Sometimes I really wonder if you read your messages before posting.
 

I mean yes that is my condition and it’s why I’m sure most prefer symmetrical maps in halo. But go ahead believing you’re always right. You’re only right here mate, remember that. There’s a reason you are here and not somewhere else.

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arlong octagon is a symmetrical map and it has exactly zero routes. 

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23 minutes ago, Arlong said:

I mean yes that is my condition and it’s why I’m sure most prefer symmetrical maps in halo. But go ahead believing you’re always right. You’re only right here mate, remember that. There’s a reason you are here and not somewhere else.

I mean he is right. The amount of routes on a map have nothing to do with the fact it's symmetrical or asymmetrical. Elongation has two lanes and is symmetrical, meawhile Turf and Ghost Town are asymmetrical but have way more routes to cover. so many that it becomes a guessing game where your oppenents are.

Asyms just sucked hard in recent games and the shit settings and weapon layouts don't to them any favors either. Syms are only needed for Bomb and CTF Slayer on syms is boring as fuck unless you make the maps small enough to force action (Warlock and Middy come to mind).

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21 minutes ago, Riddler said:

arlong octagon is a symmetrical map and it has exactly zero routes. 

Fair enough 

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16 minutes ago, Basu said:

I mean he is right. The amount of routes on a map have nothing to do with the fact it's symmetrical or asymmetrical. Elongation has two lanes and is symmetrical, meawhile Turf and Ghost Town are asymmetrical but have way more routes to cover. so many that it becomes a guessing game where your oppenents are.

Asyms just sucked hard in recent games and the shit settings and weapon layouts don't to them any favors either. Syms are only needed for Bomb and CTF Slayer on syms is boring as fuck unless you make the maps small enough to force action (Warlock and Middy come to mind).

Good point I guess. But those are also asymmetrical maps people hate, and consider bad maps, but the ones people do consider “good” either must be oddball or king or have CE ability and weapon spawn timers. Sanctuary works great, but possibly because of the sight lines. And the sniper coming up every two minutes helps. 

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It also could just be a personal preference thing, in people’s enjoyment of symmetrical maps. I’ve always preferred them, I play the best on them, can I explain why, not really without someone disputing me. 
I prefer them because they’re simple, I don’t have to think too hard about where my opponent is, it’s just that obvious. On sanctuary they’re in ring, or their/my side. 
On midship they’re p2 or their/my base, narrows top mid or snipe,

 

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Dammy

Chillout

Priz

HH

 

These are the 4 best maps.  They are creations from Hardy Lebel that the current staff at 343 wish they had the skills to develop, even if the balance wasn't intentional when Hardy designed them.  That man had more creativity than the current staff at 343 and Bungie combined.  It's too bad we can't enjoy them properly since 343  doesn't know their asshole from a hole in the ground and refuses to fix the game making it on the xbox engine and not PC.    The other  problem is that you have to play 10 games of garbage by dumping on bad players before you get a decent game in 4v4.  2v2 is the obvious better game type but, it takes forever to find a game.  Just make 4v4 CE a ranked playlist already.

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36 minutes ago, WARGOD said:

Dammy

Chillout

Priz

HH

 

These are the 4 best maps.  They are creations from Hardy Lebel that the current staff at 343 wish they had the skills to develop, even if the balance wasn't intentional when Hardy designed them.  That man had more creativity than the current staff at 343 and Bungie combined.  It's too bad we can't enjoy them properly since 343  doesn't know their asshole from a hole in the ground and refuses to fix the game making it on the xbox engine and not PC.    The other  problem is that you have to play 10 games of garbage by dumping on bad players before you get a decent game in 4v4.  2v2 is the obvious better game type but, it takes forever to find a game.  Just make 4v4 CE a ranked playlist already.

Most people prefer Fours in halo over doubles.

oh and prisoner Sucks! I despise that nap 

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16 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Most people prefer Fours in halo over doubles.

Not in halo CE.  In the other halos yes.  CE was designed for 2v2, the others were designed for 4v4 even if the creators didn't intend on this.

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