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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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25 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

I'd like to think its because if a reasonable human stops and considers the question for a moment they'll realize that if you spawn without a DMR but one team picks them up on the map you can do literally nothing but get shit on unless the other team makes huge mistakes

I tried to explain this countless times but just kept getting "BuT tHatS CalLeD mAp CoNtRoL"...followed by them telling me I apparently know nothing about "how arena shooters play" and that I should go back to CoD.

There is no reasoning with these kids.

I screenshot something especially abysmal someone said...I'll post when Im off work.

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26 minutes ago, arglactable said:

I'm not seeing why this is an issue. Is it more fun when literal morons can fly around the map in their unstoppable vehicle getting free kills until someone finally stops them with their designated Anti-Vehicle Power Weapon™? I can't remember the last time Halo vehicles were this tolerable.

Why is it you people always dislike what I say? I’m literally fucking telling you what people are basically saying? Im not an idiot, I know how Auto starts in btb plays. On my personal opinion I simply want to try it in social 4v4, and see how it plays. 
ivd only played vanilla auto starts and hated that. 

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20 minutes ago, darkstar said:

If they made BTB AR starts I would never play it again. I don’t even wanna play FFA anymore because of AR starts. 

These ****** AR kids would play one match of BTB AR starts and as soon as the other team monopolizes the DMRs and Needle Rifles and proceed to snowball, they'd realizes how asinine it was to even suggest anything other than DMR starts. 

Lmao they then would advocate for their permanent removal from the maps. 

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6 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

That's all popular games though. Why do you think Destiny is so popular despite being the most boring game ever?

Because you can "progress" up the ranks without actually getting better. You can get to the "harder" areas through playtime over skill increase.

> Enemies lose 10% of their health per rifle round. 

> "Oh sweet a new rifle this one is so much better than my old one!"

> Kill the last 3 enemies in area at 15% damage per rifle round.

> WoW iM sOoO gOoD nOw

> Proceed to new area.

> Enemies are exactly the same but "higher level"

> Enemies lose 10% of their health per rifle round.

> WoW iM lEvEl 40 i Am So GoOd 

> Still shit at the game.

At least with 30 meaningless progression systems in play and random loot, I can see the psychological manipulation that keeps people engaged. But with AR/SMG starts Halo... I honestly don't get it. Even if the game actually played the way they imagine it would... Why is that even fun to them? 

I want to obliviously run around the map collecting mostly shitty weapons that are only remotely interesting because they fire brightly colored bullets before walking in a straight line directly towards the objective spraying my ar and then trading melees hehe halo is so fun.

These are the same geniuses that will dutifully go 2-19 in KotH standing in the hill all game oblivious to the fact that I am murdering everyone around them and going +30 with 0 hill time.

 

9 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

I agree with this with the exception of the warthog. It is basically useless in Reach. Whilst a lot of people hate vehicles and play BTB only for a target rich environment rather than combined arms, I feel the warthog should be stronger. You can so easily kill the driver/gunner/passeneger to the point where it's a death trap. Social players love capping flags in 'hogs, love driving around in it and I get that. They shouldn't be as heavily punished as they are at the moment.

Having said that, there is nothing more satisfying than killing the Banshee just by shooting at it with your starting weapon. Hate that thing so much.

 

Also, if they made it AR starts with DMR secondary the AR crowd probably wouldn't notice. They are legit that bad. 

You might be able to convince me that the warthog deserves a buff, but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't miss being able to pretty consistently kill all three idiots in a warthog with only my spawn weapon. Maybe just make the driver and passenger harder to kill so I can still murder turret kids.

Fuck Banshees.

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5 minutes ago, arglactable said:

At least with 30 meaningless progression systems in play and random loot, I can see the psychological manipulation that keeps people engaged. But with AR/SMG starts Halo... I honestly don't get it. Even if the game actually played the way they imagine it would... Why is that even fun to them? 

I want to obliviously run around the map collecting mostly shitty weapons that are only remotely interesting because they fire brightly colored bullets before walking in a straight line directly towards the objective spraying my ar and then trading melees hehe halo is so fun.

These are the same geniuses that will dutifully go 2-19 in KotH standing in the hill all game oblivious to the fact that I am murdering everyone around them and going +30 with 0 hill time.

 

You might be able to convince me that the warthog deserves a buff, but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't miss being able to pretty consistently kill all three idiots in a warthog with only my spawn weapon. Maybe just make the driver and passenger harder to kill so I can still murder turret kids.

Fuck Banshees.

I’ve always thought breakable shields on the gunner be cool. They’d be the jackel shields. Once broken they’re gone for good, would be a good balance. 

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22 hours ago, Sitri said:

So you actually have some space in the center of your crosshair and it's not just a giant cross with a pixel in the middle.

If you find out a way to do so, let me know.

bullet spread is directly tied to crosshair imaging? tf?

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1 hour ago, Arlong said:

Right now the main issue is BTB dmr starts rendering vehicles useless. I want to try out AR/pistol starts, because I think the TU pistol isn’t bad. 

That's a made up issue. they aren't useless. you're literally going to go 1:1 KD at worst if you enter any vehicle bar the mongoose. 

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On 12/10/2019 at 11:48 PM, Arlong said:

You act like the spread in reach is noticeable half the time. 

its noticeable anytime you get descoped before you fire. iirc RRR is 30m and spread will make you miss headshots at 35m. DMR scope is 90m. 

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59 minutes ago, arglactable said:

These are the same geniuses that will dutifully go 2-19 in KotH standing in the hill all game oblivious to the fact that I am murdering everyone around them and going +30 with 0 hill time.

"Dutifully" lmao

1 hour ago, arglactable said:

Fuck Banshees.

Agreed. 

1 hour ago, arglactable said:

You might be able to convince me that the warthog deserves a buff, but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't miss being able to pretty consistently kill all three idiots in a warthog with only my spawn weapon.

I still think you should kill them, but they take damage same as Halo 1 where just shooting it makes all people inside take damage. I don't like that. If you're actually hitting the players, absolutely take damage. If you're just hitting the 'hog make it take some damage but not too much (it's a big target and having 3-4 people focus it kills it in like 10 seconds not exaggerating.) so they people can still drive around in it and have a good time without it being a tank.

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52 minutes ago, Jake Teh Nub said:

Just give me any other Halo besides Reach already this game's multiplayer is so bad. I'd even take Halo 4 over this for BTB.

Be careful what you wish for...

ORDNANCE DROPPED

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1 hour ago, Jake Teh Nub said:

Just give me any other Halo besides Reach already this game's multiplayer is so bad. I'd even take Halo 4 over this for BTB.

Play v7.

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There's something to be said about how annoying it is to play BTB, and never NOT be getting cross-mapped. But that's more of an issue of map design than anything else.

For example, I feel like I never get team-shotted into oblivion in something like Breakneck, where all the fighting is divided between a bunch of different buildings, rather than just the massive flatlands of Hemorrhage.

I once played a game of Headhunter on Ridgeline, and it was an absolute nightmare. Anytime someone tried to collect the skulls of a person they just killed, they were lit up by the enemy team, chilling on their favorite hill.

People only ever got points from picking up the skulls of the teammates who died next to them. 

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Shitty open wasteland maps like Boneyard, Hemmorhage, Paradiso and Ridgeline are why kids are crying so much about the DMR. And because they're bad at actually hitting targets. It has fuck all to do with weapon balance or lowered bloom on the DMR. 

Also we played a game of Paradiso 2v2 with the CE magnum for shits and giggles and guess what the Banshee is still brokenly overpowered even with a decent starting weapon. 

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52 minutes ago, Basu said:

Shitty open wasteland maps like Boneyard, Hemmorhage, Paradiso and Ridgeline are why kids are crying so much about the DMR. And because they're bad at actually hitting targets. It has fuck all to do with weapon balance or lowered bloom on the DMR. 

Also we played a game of Paradiso 2v2 with the CE magnum for shits and giggles and guess what the Banshee is still brokenly overpowered even with a decent starting weapon. 

Vehicles need specific weak points. Titanfall 2 did this with those glowing red areas on the Titans and I was totally fine with that

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I voted AR starts for BTB because maybe then they'll fuck off and stop trying to screech about removing DMR starts in 4v4. 

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1 minute ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

I voted AR starts for BTB because maybe then they'll fuck off and stop trying to screech about removing DMR starts in 4v4. 

These people can't be bargained with... They can't be reasoned with! They don't feel pity, or remorse, and they absolutely will not stop, EVER! Until you spawn with an AR...

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Just now, Mr Grim said:

These people can't be bargained with... They can't be reasoned with! They don't feel pity, or remorse, and they absolutely will not stop, EVER! Until you spawn with an AR...

If they get their AR starts i'm plugging in the controller, grabbing the DMR, and spend all game shitting on them, and trash talking them on voice chat.

 

"IS THIS WHAT YOU WANTED, ARE YOU HAVING FUN, HOWS THAT ASSAULT RIFLE GOING FOR YOU, OH BOY I BET YOU WISH YOU HAD A DMR RIGHT NOW"

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a2k2gC7.png

Entire thread was full of responses basically to the effect of "OMG THIS YAAAS SLAY".

Welcome to the modern Halo fanbase.

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@Ramirez77 I don’t agree with the conclusion of wanting AR starts but I do agree that the DMR causes a lot of problems for Halo.  A semi automatic, hitscan weapon with a 3x scope is a problem because it is so effective that it needs something like bloom to counteract it and bloom ruins the mechanics of shooting.  Not to mention, the DMR was the Utility weapon so the average distance engagements occur at increases and the average size of maps increases which ruins map design.  

On a console game being played with a controller, Scope is more about increasing your red reticle range, the distance to which you still receive aim assist, than it is about visual magnification.  Coupled with descope, even minor increases in a weapon’s effective range can offer a significant advantage, especially when maps are designed with the red reticle range of the unscoped and scoped Utility weapon in mind.  

I am all for precision weapon starts but I don’t believe that defending the DMR is the right way to go about doing it.  The Magnum and the Battle Rifle could already fill whatever utility weapon needs we had.  Like many other things, the DMR is a virus bungee planted in Halo before it left.  Something not immediately obvious but very destructive to classic halo gameplay:  the DMR.  

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9 hours ago, Riddler said:

bullet spread is directly tied to crosshair imaging? tf?

Yeah, that's how bloom works. It's more like the other way around, though. I'm not changing the crosshair directly, that's a side effect from tweaking spread.

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25 minutes ago, Boyo said:

@Ramirez77 I don’t agree with the conclusion of wanting AR starts but I do agree that the DMR causes a lot of problems for Halo.  A semi automatic, hitscan weapon with a 3x scope is a problem because it is so effective that it needs something like bloom to counteract it and bloom ruins the mechanics of shooting.  Not to mention, the DMR was the Utility weapon so the average distance engagements occur at increases and the average size of maps increases which ruins map design.  

On a console game being played with a controller, Scope is more about increasing your red reticle range, the distance to which you still receive aim assist, than it is about visual magnification.  Coupled with descope, even minor increases in a weapon’s effective range can offer a significant advantage, especially when maps are designed with the red reticle range of the unscoped and scoped Utility weapon in mind.  

I am all for precision weapon starts but I don’t believe that defending the DMR is the right way to go about doing it.  The Magnum and the Battle Rifle could already fill whatever utility weapon needs we had.  Like many other things, the DMR is a virus bungee planted in Halo before it left.  Something not immediately obvious but very destructive to classic halo gameplay:  the DMR.  

It's the least terrible option out of a lot of terrible options, without making fundamental alterations to Reach itself.

AR Starts are obviously terrible.  I'm mostly just pissed at opportunistic badkids who constantly say "hey DMR starts have flaws so let's jump on the exact opposite, 9001x worse extreme".  Like if they think the DMR is oppressive now wait until only one or two guys have one...

Non-TU Magnum is a total meme, basically have to be shoving it right up someone's ass.  TU Magnum is still only effective to close-medium range, and that's only when paced, it's not a suitable replacement for DMR.  NB Magnum is slightly more ideal than DMR but kids will still bitch about it for the exact same reasons.

We could apply a second title update that shapes the weapons into something actually respectable but then people will just complain it's not the "true Reach experience".  We're not left with a lot of other options here.

Going forward in the franchise, you already know what my ideal utility is...

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I've long been of the opinion that no weapons in Halo that aren't snipers should have scopes on them anyway (mid range de-scope battles are stupid and awkward),  and the sniper doesn't need a 10x zoom either, but I'm not really convinced that the DMR is a problem. Halo has a pretty long tradition of stupid map design for BTB in particular and it's pretty obvious that instead of rethinking the viability of "giant valley with no cover" maps, Bungo tried to enforce "intended ranges" with a variety of random factors. This is not the fault of the DMR. It's the fault of Bungie designing shitty maps with tons of extremely long, open sight-lines CONSISTENTLY in every single game. And the only way that can possibly work without the impacts that people whine about (i.e. lots of long range gun fights forcing you to stick to cover) is if the weapons are all basically useless outside of close-mid range.

I don't want to single out Bungo on that issue either, because 343 used a similar rationale for adding random spread to the H5 BR when they finally decided to try some re-balancing. If you just make it harder, decent players will quickly hit the low console aim skill ceiling, but if you make it RANDOM, everyone is inconsistent at range. Balance! They eventually settled for obnoxious recoil instead.

And now with Reach on PC, we have the "problem" that people aiming with a mouse (i.e. me) are still consistent outside of red reticle range. And why is that? Well, it might have something to do with the absurd bullet magnetism/autoaim values that were tuned for ease of use on console 10 years ago and capped the skill ceiling well below any reasonable maximum for mouse aim. Not that it's particularly hard most of the time to get back behind cover when someone is hitting you at that range, given the extremely long TTK and bloom.

No big deal, tho. All of the "competitive" players are plugging in their controllers for that high level aim assist hardcore game-play!

:wutface:

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