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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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https://www.theringer.com/2019/11/11/20958715/halo-2-anniversary-first-person-shooter-xbox-master-chief-history-i-love-bees

 

Pretty cool article about H2 turning 15 years old. Man this game was revolutionary, people take things like MM for granted nowadays but forget who actually came up with it in the first place.

It's also funny how both Frankie and ske7ch praise the game to absoulte heaven but their own company was too lazy to remake the entire MP and totally botched the port of the original game for MCC. How can you care about H2's legacy and in good faith greenlight the H2A MP and MCC port of H2? It's comical how out of touch they are.

Also Frankie getting this triggered over Halo2Sucks.com had me rolling:

Quote

“It was my first experience of negative community,” O’Connor said. “People complain about stuff. That wasn’t unusual, but it was my first glimpse at organized and miserable bastards whose passion is for complaining about a thing.”

“Somebody leaves a normal-sized dump at the far corner of an Olympic-sized swimming pool. Well, it doesn’t matter that that’s a vanishing percentage of the volume of the pool. So you end up realizing that these loud, negative voices aren’t representative.”

Way to go and ignore any sort of negative user feedback right there. Why does someone with skin that thin become franchise development director?

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25 minutes ago, Basu said:

https://www.theringer.com/2019/11/11/20958715/halo-2-anniversary-first-person-shooter-xbox-master-chief-history-i-love-bees

 

Pretty cool article about H2 turning 15 years old. Man this game was revolutionary, people take things like MM for granted nowadays but forget who actually came up with it in the first place.

It's also funny how both Frankie and ske7ch praise the game to absoulte heaven but their own company was too lazy to remake the entire MP and totally botched the port of the original game for MCC. How can you care about H2's legacy and in good faith greenlight the H2A MP and MCC port of H2? It's comical how out of touch they are.

Also Frankie getting this triggered over Halo2Sucks.com had me rolling:

Way to go and ignore any sort of negative user feedback right there. Why does someone with skin that thin become franchise development director?

Its about projected sales, budgets and time. H2A/MCC were not created for the fans as a homage for the series. It was created to generate revenue in a specific window and it shows. Obviously in hindsight they would've outsourced differently and adjusted expectations because just how bad it turned out to be probably did hit the bottom line for Halo 5 and onward but its important to remember that these people aren't our friends or fans of the series first. They're about making money and adding to their resume. They may be fans and/or friends too on a personal level but neither of those two has anything to do with which games get the green light or when

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What are you guys talking about?!  H2A is the perfect classic Halo multiplayer experience, everyone I know and see online thinks it's just the best!

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5 minutes ago, Squatting Bear said:

What are you guys talking about?!  H2A is the perfect classic Halo multiplayer experience, everyone I know and see online thinks it's just the best!

IMO the shitty maps, and H4 legacy code (nade hitmarkers) made it horrible and the artstyle but that's less important. Legacy 

 

 

Example, warlock. They added two extra jump ups on every base. Before you ONLY had two routes into base, now there are 4. It completely ruined the flow of warlock. Making it mayhem now.

Sort of like abilties in Halo. We used to have certain routes on maps, now we can make our own with abilities. Ruins the flow of engagement.

 

 

 

I know it's probably really demanding but I would have rather had saber's engine from H2A campaign overlaid with classic h2mp. so I could still do all the h2 button glitches with newer assets. 

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2 hours ago, Basu said:

Also Frankie getting this triggered over Halo2Sucks.com had me rolling:

Way to go and ignore any sort of negative user feedback right there. Why does someone with skin that thin become franchise development director?

They're the ones who shit in the corner of the pool. Over time, people realized and got the fuck out.

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Not giving exposition for events and emotions that can be expressed in other ways is simply respecting the intelligence of the audience.  Its good storytelling to let the audience figure out for themselves what is made apparent by events, context and visible emotion. Good stories don't need to be complicated nor do they need to hold your hand.  I would argue that they are better when they don't hold your hand because they require that you pay attention and use your noodle a bit, making you more invested.

 

Pushing plot via multiple, minutes-long exposition dumps that require extensive ancillary background knowledge to even understand is lazy, hand-wavy story telling that disrespects the audience and doesn't understand the medium through which the audience has/is experiencing it.

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1 hour ago, Cursed Lemon said:

They're the ones who shit in the corner of the pool. Over time, people realized and got the fuck out.

Bungie made a beautiful pool and everyone loved it. But it wasn't accessible enough so they started giving out free ice cream. The pool got kind of gross because people would drop their ice cream in it occasionally but most people still loved it. Then 343 was given the rights to the pool and immediately took a massive dump in it. Then another. And another. People left and told all their friends how disgusting the pool has become. Frankie looks at his deserted pool and goes: "Oh I guess people don't like pools after all, who would've known?".

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44 minutes ago, Basu said:

Bungie made a beautiful pool and everyone loved it. But it wasn't accesible enough so they started giving out free ice cream. The pool got kind of gross because people would drop their ice cream in it occasionally but most people still loved it. Then 343 was given the rights to the pool and immediately took a massive dump in it. Then another. And another. People left and told all their friends how disgusting the pool has become. Frankie looks at his deserted pool and goes: "Oh I guess people don't like pools after all, who would've known?".

literally described this

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20 hours ago, Infinity said:

Beyond is working on an official broadcast right now so I can't handle the Barbiter talk at the moment. We'll clean this up tonight.

I feel like I missed the juicy stuff while I was asleep

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5 hours ago, Basu said:

Also Frankie getting this triggered over Halo2Sucks.com had me rolling:

“It was my first experience of negative community,” O’Connor said. “People complain about stuff. That wasn’t unusual, but it was my first glimpse at organized and miserable bastards whose passion is for complaining about a thing.”

“Somebody leaves a normal-sized dump at the far corner of an Olympic-sized swimming pool. Well, it doesn’t matter that that’s a vanishing percentage of the volume of the pool. So you end up realizing that these loud, negative voices aren’t representative.”

Way to go and ignore any sort of negative user feedback right there. Why does someone with skin that thin become franchise development director?

Yes, my passion was for complaining about a thing. I don't seem to recall doing it much when I was lanning Halo CE and enjoying an actual skill-based, competitive console FPS, but what do I know. It's weird how everyone's passion for complaining about a thing coincidentally manifested itself right when Halo 2 was launched. We just loved complaining and never knew it until Halo 2 came out, so thanks for that Frankie! You helped us all find our passion. 

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14 minutes ago, BigShow36 said:

Yes, my passion was for complaining about a thing. I don't seem to recall doing it much when I was lanning Halo CE and enjoying an actual skill-based, competitive console FPS, but what do I know. It's weird how everyone's passion for complaining about a thing coincidentally manifested itself right when Halo 2 was launched. We just loved complaining and never knew it until Halo 2 came out, so thanks for that Frankie! You helped us all find our passion. 

A swear a lot of hate for Halo 2 could have been avoided if it was BR starts. SMG starts is quite literally unplayable. If the enemy has all the BRs it feels like you're an NPC in someone else's game.

Also 2001 and 2004 we're very different times. Website communities were becoming more mainstream instead of fringe and sites like halo2sucks came about. 

Additionally Halo 1 didn't have a prequel to compare it to, Halo 2 did. That's a big thing to take into account. That will immediately divide some fans. 

Not saying either is superior but there are more factors than just "thing bad".

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14 hours ago, znot said:

literally described this

"Historically Halo has been very hardcore, and it's had a very steep learning curve.."  Thats a cringy af thing to say my god.

No it hasn't. Even if that's an argument you want to make i dare say games like CS, LoL and Dota all have far steeper learning curves and are also orders of magnitude more popular.   I think what he meant to say was, "There was this small minority of hardcore players that would shit on us in matchmaking every once in a while, and we wanted to beat them."

 

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

Was h2a warlock really that bad? 

Yes! I already outlined it, before warlock only had TWO ways into the base. Now there are 4 ways. Before you either had lift or the ramp....

 

 

Now you have, Lift, jump up, ramp, jump up.

 

Now kids can just jump into your base anytime they want from anywhere and either arm or disarm bomb. Would NEVER happen in h2 cause of the focused routes that HALO doen't have anymore.

this is my biggest problem with abilities and 343's new halo. Before you were forced to use the paths of the map, that lead to natural engagements cause EVERYONE had to follow the path. Now with sprint, thrust and slide, we can ignore 90% of the routes and jump jump window to top mid on midship now. Leading to less natural engagements.

 

It's no wonder removing the abilities makes even the shittiest of maps better, the flow of engagement comes back as were forced to use the path of the maps.

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

Was h2a warlock really that bad? 

I liked the changes they made. The map became much more navigate-able allowing for more unique and varied plays. I think H2A's Sanctuary is an improvement over the original as well. Even the waterfalls that at first seemed a gimmicky ended up having utilizable strategy by competitive teams.

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1 hour ago, znot said:

Yes! I already outlined it, before warlock only had TWO ways into the base. Now there are 4 ways. Before you either had lift or the ramp....

 

 

Now you have, Lift, jump up, ramp, jump up.

 

Now kids can just jump into your base anytime they want from anywhere and either arm or disarm bomb. Would NEVER happen in h2 cause of the focused routes that HALO doen't have anymore.

this is my biggest problem with abilities and 343's new halo. Before you were forced to use the paths of the map, that lead to natural engagements cause EVERYONE had to follow the path. Now with sprint, thrust and slide, we can ignore 90% of the routes and jump jump window to top mid on midship now. Leading to less natural engagements.

 

It's no wonder removing the abilities makes even the shittiest of maps better, the flow of engagement comes back as were forced to use the path of the maps.

I don’t disagree, but all the jumps did was add extra paths. It’s not like these were super hard to predict which I think is your problem with all of this.

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Anyone have any Halo 3 jump maps like the flaming ninja challenge maps or know where I could find them?

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Stalactites were nonsense. Waterfalls are whatever.

Warlord was cool for Slayer but the extra routes definitely hurt objective modes.

I liked the extra jumps on Shrine.

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22 minutes ago, Infinity said:

Stalactites were nonsense. Waterfalls are whatever.

Warlord was cool for Slayer but the extra routes definitely hurt objective modes.

I liked the extra jumps on Shrine.

In what way could you explain?  Warlord you had more than lift to get into the enemies base. I liked that.

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4 hours ago, Arlong said:

Was h2a warlock really that bad? 

It wasn't completely horrible but definitely a step down. Shrine/Sanc was also ruined with nonsense routes like the jump ups that allow you to jump up to the enemy carbine easily. Why? Such a joke. And don't get me started on the map hazards and waterfall gimmicks. Just because BF4's levolution was a good marketing gimmick doesn't mean you have to slap shit like that on every H2A map.

Stuff like the gate on Zanzibar and High Ground was cool because those were natural interactive elements. Forcing shit like waterfalls and respawning instakill icicles on Lockdown was just horrible.

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29 minutes ago, Basu said:

It wasn't completely horrible but definitely a step down. Shrine/Sanc was also ruined with nonsense routes like the jump ups that allow you to jump up to the enemy carbine easily. Why? Such a joke. And don't get me started on the map hazards and waterfall gimmicks. Just because BF4's levolution was a good marketing gimmick doesn't mean you have to slap shit like that on every H2A map.

Stuff like the gate on Zanzibar and High Ground was cool because those were natural interactive elements. Forcing shit like waterfalls and respawning instakill icicles on Lockdown was just horrible.

Clearly you've never designed a Halo game, because if you had you'd know that the only way to fix poor weapon balance and map design is to not fix any of those actual issues, but instead add more random shit into the mix in an effort to fix the core issues. This always works unless you actually look at the results. 

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