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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Ice, I really am thunderstruck as to why you’re even here. You dislike just about every aspect of Halo, from the multiplayer, power weapons, the story, etc. 

It seems the only thing you like is that Halo 4 and 5 have a utility that shoots straight... despite the clusterfuck of issues those games have, both in multiplayer, campaign, and social features. 

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big yikes guys you don't understand i just like the OBTUSE reactions you all reply to me with idgaf about any of this despite my daily visits and mountains upon mountains of text haha lmao >:^)))

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39 minutes ago, darkstar said:

Ice, I really am thunderstruck as to why you’re even here. You dislike just about every aspect of Halo, from the multiplayer, power weapons, the story, etc. 

It seems the only thing you like is that Halo 4 and 5 have a utility that shoots straight... despite the clusterfuck of issues those games have, both in multiplayer, campaign, and social features. 

Not sure if true about opinion but H4’s br and dmr is shit. Only the orange gun shoots straight and that wasnt in hardcore. 

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Just now, Riddler said:

Only the orange gun shoots straight and that wasnt in hardcore. 

Light Rifle only shot straight with the zoom. It's hipfire was as spready as the BR.

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7 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Light Rifle only shot straight with the zoom. It's hipfire was as spready as the BR.

that gun was so broken, it's no wonder bungie dropped it for the BR in h2. Scoping in makes it more powerful, then finish them off with a round burst.

 

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1 minute ago, znot said:

that gun was so broken, it's no wonder bungie dropped it for the BR in h2. Scoping in makes it more powerful, then finish them off with a round burst.

 

If you were playing to win, and could choose between spawning with the Light Rifle or a combo capable H2 BR, which would you choose?

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2 hours ago, darkstar said:

Ice, I really am thunderstruck as to why you’re even here. You dislike just about every aspect of Halo, from the multiplayer, power weapons, the story, etc. 

It seems the only thing you like is that Halo 4 and 5 have a utility that shoots straight... despite the clusterfuck of issues those games have, both in multiplayer, campaign, and social features. 

I don't broad sweep things, so, no. That isn't it. I dislike aspects of multiplayer, but the general concept of Halo's MP is appealing. Longer killtime games resulting in more of a dance of gunfights and movement, over me just lasering people, like, say, CoD. I like the base gameplay for MP, I just don't think the hacked on bullshit attached to it to make it appealing as a social attraction was good. Or, rather, I don't like it. The story is really only something I dug into in recent times when I had spare time to analyze it from start to (current) finish. I didn't always find it insanely flawed, or put an emphasis on some stories being better than others. Pretty recent conclusion, much like my issues with power weapons. 4 years ago, I sang a different tune. Likewise, my liking of Halo 4 and 5 don't just boil down to utility properties. With that said, it seems rather obvious I'd have to like more than I hate about these games given I'd bet you dollars to donuts I have more playtime on these games than anyone else does here, barring pros, lol. I've kinda grinded the shit out of every Halo.

As I said a week or so ago, I'm here for debates, mostly. Or, rather, I like seeing other people's viewpoints and arguing them to spawn new ideas or viewpoints in turn. I just want a discussion, even if my likes in the franchise shift. 

18 hours ago, Nokt said:

By the logic that we have nothing to compare it to in our world would make this a standstill argument because you can't argue my logic with we don't have anything to compare this to, then say what he would do instead. Ignorance is bliss and people will continue to believe what they want to believe, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to follow that. I don't understand why its so hard to see that someone would lose their faith, especially with the events that the Arbiter has seen.

You may as well have Jesus Christ and the devil telling the Arbiter that God isn't real because that is basically who is telling him. These aren't just random people, its a sacred icon, the only thing left thats "sentient" from the forerunner era. Then you have the Gravemind who is trying to absorb everything into a single entity and the Chief who he has been at odds with since the beginning. 

No his race is going to go extinct because the Covenant are going to annihilate them. He is shown this as the Elites are attacked on site by the Covenant. He actually interacts with a couple Elites on several occasions in Halo 2, he obviously made connections while he was Supreme Commander. He distances himself when he becomes the Arbiter, but later backtracks as you him talking with other members.

I didn't say we had nothing to compare it to, I said the comparisons to our present day are hilariously minuscule compared to Halo's context. That being time dedication to a war spanning 30 years, and resulting in near extinction. Losing faith as a concept isn't my problem, it's how the Arbiter did it on nothing but baseline arguments. I get with dramatic irony in tow, providing empirical evidence means wiping out the galaxy, but that's exactly it. 

The "oracles" explain nothing, both of them. Guilty Spark when pressed by Refumee about the Halos to the Arbiter is interrupted twice. Before he can explain anything, with nothing he says indicating a problem with the Great Journey. Then Tangent doesn't say anything but containment. Which also in turn doesn't really invalidate anything. Even the argument between Regret's corpse and this rogue monitor don't actually say anything worthy of consideration for the idea that the Great Journey's a suicide run, or all a falsehood. Mostly because it's just a basic argument with nothing really to it (to the characters) before both are ALSO interrupted before an actual (hahaa) tangent can go on, and the Gravemind simply says "don't mistake their intent, or all will perish as they did before". SO. You have the two monitors that mean something to this character, and can explain this being overshadowed by circumstance and one of the most untrustworthy antagonists in the series. On top of the fact that the Gravemind and Chief are the only ones with knowledge on the Halos in the room, and also happen to be the Arbiter's major enemies. Why in the fuck would he suddenly flip on a coin for them. He doesn't know the Gravemind's significance. Contextually, he's a talking wall of bodies. A giant plague. That has done nothing but literally turn his life from bad to worse. Nothing more to this dude. Because this is the first time they've ever met. And we know how much the Arbiter despised Chief. For essentially being the reason he went through hell for (in the end) nothing. WE as the audience know the Gravemind is essentially space-Satan. The Arbiter doesn't know this. He as a character is insanely ignorant to who the fuck this dude is. He has little reason to go along with him, and if anything, EVERY reason to oppose them. That just doesn't fly.

My point on the latter, to extinction, was just on how the Arbiter didn't know the Halo's actual purpose. Thus not knowing he would cause his own extinction by activating one. Further, he doesn't really interact with anybody past a basic talk. If he made connections during his time as the leader of a fleet, and as a Shipmaster, we certainly don't know of them in the games. Nor if he distanced himself. 

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On 11/11/2019 at 12:57 PM, HeX Reapers said:

"I KNOW the game needs them but, I-I just keep DYING to them! What am I doing wrong!? You know what? No. It's not me, it's the GAME! Yes! I've done it! I've big-brained 10+ years of competitive Halo! How could anyone have not seen this sooner! Big rocket go bang-bang me go WTF that not my BR how I supposed to fight that what the frick!? Unfair game dumb stupid should be BR yes BR only skill to the max mmm yes :^)"

 

2 hours ago, HeX Reapers said:

big yikes guys you don't understand i just like the OBTUSE reactions you all reply to me with idgaf about any of this despite my daily visits and mountains upon mountains of text haha lmao >:^)))

You good homie?

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13 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I didn't say we had nothing to compare it to, I said the comparisons to our present day are hilariously minuscule compared to Halo's context. That being time dedication to a war spanning 30 years, and resulting in near extinction. Losing faith as a concept isn't my problem, it's how the Arbiter did it on nothing but baseline arguments. I get with dramatic irony in tow, providing empirical evidence means wiping out the galaxy, but that's exactly it. 

I think one thing you may be forgetting (or if it was addressed I missed it) is that the Elites have somewhat questioned the Prophets and the Great Journey for a while at that point. They questioned why the humans weren't allowed to join the Covenant and why we had to start a war in the first place.

I don't know if this was known at the time but I think it's much easier to believe that someone could change their belief when a) you may have already been questioning your leaders and b) you've already been turned on by Tartarus and the Brutes, who said their leader ordered the Brutes to kill you.

If I was hunted and nearly killed on orders from my leader AND I already had been questioning my leaders to begin with I think it's fairly reasonable to think someone would change their ways. Saying the Arbiter changed on 'nothing but baseline arguments' is false.

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15 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I don't broad sweep things, so, no. That isn't it. I dislike aspects of multiplayer, but the general concept of Halo's MP is appealing. Longer killtime games resulting in more of a dance of gunfights and movement, over me just lasering people, like, say, CoD. I like the base gameplay for MP, I just don't think the hacked on bullshit attached to it to make it appealing as a social attraction was good. Or, rather, I don't like it. The story is really only something I dug into in recent times when I had spare time to analyze it from start to (current) finish. I didn't always find it insanely flawed, or put an emphasis on some stories being better than others. Pretty recent conclusion, much like my issues with power weapons. 4 years ago, I sang a different tune. Likewise, my liking of Halo 4 and 5 don't just boil down to utility properties. With that said, it seems rather obvious I'd have to like more than I hate about these games given I'd bet you dollars to donuts I have more playtime on these games than anyone else does here, barring pros, lol. I've kinda grinded the shit out of every Halo.

As I said a week or so ago, I'm here for debates, mostly. Or, rather, I like seeing other people's viewpoints and arguing them to spawn new ideas or viewpoints in turn. I just want a discussion, even if my likes in the franchise shift. 

I didn't say we had nothing to compare it to, I said the comparisons to our present day are hilariously minuscule compared to Halo's context. That being time dedication to a war spanning 30 years, and resulting in near extinction. Losing faith as a concept isn't my problem, it's how the Arbiter did it on nothing but baseline arguments. I get with dramatic irony in tow, providing empirical evidence means wiping out the galaxy, but that's exactly it. 

The "oracles" explain nothing, both of them. Guilty Spark when pressed by Refumee about the Halos to the Arbiter is interrupted twice. Before he can explain anything, with nothing he says indicating a problem with the Great Journey. Then Tangent doesn't say anything but containment. Which also in turn doesn't really invalidate anything. Even the argument between Regret's corpse and this rogue monitor don't actually say anything worthy of consideration for the idea that the Great Journey's a suicide run, or all a falsehood. Mostly because it's just a basic argument with nothing really to it (to the characters) before both are ALSO interrupted before an actual (hahaa) tangent can go on, and the Gravemind simply says "don't mistake their intent, or all will perish as they did before". SO. You have the two monitors that mean something to this character, and can explain this being overshadowed by circumstance and one of the most untrustworthy antagonists in the series. On top of the fact that the Gravemind and Chief are the only ones with knowledge on the Halos in the room, and also happen to be the Arbiter's major enemies. Why in the fuck would he suddenly flip on a coin for them. He doesn't know the Gravemind's significance. Contextually, he's a talking wall of bodies. A giant plague. That has done nothing but literally turn his life from bad to worse. Nothing more to this dude. Because this is the first time they've ever met. And we know how much the Arbiter despised Chief. For essentially being the reason he went through hell for (in the end) nothing. WE as the audience know the Gravemind is essentially space-Satan. The Arbiter doesn't know this. He as a character is insanely ignorant to who the fuck this dude is. He has little reason to go along with him, and if anything, EVERY reason to oppose them. That just doesn't fly.

My point on the latter, to extinction, was just on how the Arbiter didn't know the Halo's actual purpose. Thus not knowing he would cause his own extinction by activating one. Further, he doesn't really interact with anybody past a basic talk. If he made connections during his time as the leader of a fleet, and as a Shipmaster, we certainly don't know of them in the games. Nor if he distanced himself. 

As for the grave minds case, he told him he’d show him the truth, since he wouldn’t listen. This parasite also let him live, whom it did not anyone else(he obviously saw arbiter being betrayed) .

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12 hours ago, JordanB said:

I think one thing you may be forgetting (or if it was addressed I missed it) is that the Elites have somewhat questioned the Prophets and the Great Journey for a while at that point. They questioned why the humans weren't allowed to join the Covenant and why we had to start a war in the first place.

I don't know if this was known at the time but I think it's much easier to believe that someone could change their belief when a) you may have already been questioning your leaders and b) you've already been turned on by Tartarus and the Brutes, who said their leader ordered the Brutes to kill you.

If I was hunted and nearly killed on orders from my leader AND I already had been questioning my leaders to begin with I think it's fairly reasonable to think someone would change their ways. Saying the Arbiter changed on 'nothing but baseline arguments' is false.

The Arbiter isn't "the Elites". Hence my focusing on the Arbiter's in depth adherence to the Great Journey and why I think he specifically is written in a flawed manner. The Elites as a majority may have questioned things, but the Arbiter originally did not, as we saw in game. 

Besides, being hunted down on orders from your own leader still doesn't invalidate anything. It's just killing you, lol. This is the same dude who was publicly humiliated and tortured by said leaders. And was already told by them tons of high powers wanted him dead, AND that his position was only TO die. And that those who wanted him dead would get results, one way or another. Tartarus' speech only indicates a clean house. Not "your religion is a lie". Especially given the context of the betrayal is literally done under the belief on both sides that the Index they obtain is gonna propel them into the Great Journey.

Which of course, to me, just makes the shock the Arbiter feels in that moment that much more dumb, lol. Why be surprised the people who say you're gonna die, one way or another, and give you the suicide role, actually act on killing you once your use is up. It's not like this is a heavy-handed implication in the job description or anything. Potentially just another unthought hole. For another twist. Which makes a character act oddly.

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On 11/12/2019 at 3:57 PM, TheIcePrincess said:

I didn't say we had nothing to compare it to, I said the comparisons to our present day are hilariously minuscule compared to Halo's context. That being time dedication to a war spanning 30 years, and resulting in near extinction. Losing faith as a concept isn't my problem, it's how the Arbiter did it on nothing but baseline arguments. I get with dramatic irony in tow, providing empirical evidence means wiping out the galaxy, but that's exactly it. 

You said "We currently have nothing like that in our world". To me personally the implications are the same.

On 11/12/2019 at 3:57 PM, TheIcePrincess said:

The "oracles" explain nothing, both of them. Guilty Spark when pressed by Refumee about the Halos to the Arbiter is interrupted twice. Before he can explain anything, with nothing he says indicating a problem with the Great Journey. Then Tangent doesn't say anything but containment. Which also in turn doesn't really invalidate anything. Even the argument between Regret's corpse and this rogue monitor don't actually say anything worthy of consideration for the idea that the Great Journey's a suicide run, or all a falsehood. Mostly because it's just a basic argument with nothing really to it (to the characters) before both are ALSO interrupted before an actual (hahaa) tangent can go on, and the Gravemind simply says "don't mistake their intent, or all will perish as they did before". SO. You have the two monitors that mean something to this character, and can explain this being overshadowed by circumstance and one of the most untrustworthy antagonists in the series. On top of the fact that the Gravemind and Chief are the only ones with knowledge on the Halos in the room, and also happen to be the Arbiter's major enemies. Why in the fuck would he suddenly flip on a coin for them. He doesn't know the Gravemind's significance. Contextually, he's a talking wall of bodies. A giant plague. That has done nothing but literally turn his life from bad to worse. Nothing more to this dude. Because this is the first time they've ever met. And we know how much the Arbiter despised Chief. For essentially being the reason he went through hell for (in the end) nothing. WE as the audience know the Gravemind is essentially space-Satan. The Arbiter doesn't know this. He as a character is insanely ignorant to who the fuck this dude is. He has little reason to go along with him, and if anything, EVERY reason to oppose them. That just doesn't fly.

My point on the latter, to extinction, was just on how the Arbiter didn't know the Halo's actual purpose. Thus not knowing he would cause his own extinction by activating one. Further, he doesn't really interact with anybody past a basic talk. If he made connections during his time as the leader of a fleet, and as a Shipmaster, we certainly don't know of them in the games. Nor if he distanced himself. 

Penitent Tangent says to Chief "this facility must be activated to control this outbreak". The sacred icon is openly referring to a human as a Reclaimer and that the ring is used as a countermeasure to flood. This are pretty obvious things being thrown at the Arbiter here.

The Gravemind at the very least saved the arbiters life. I would imagine that anyone in that situation would at least listen to what they have to say. Not like he has much of a choice anyways.

The next level featuring the arbiter, Brutes attack him onsite, when he meets up with allies the Covenant are openly attacking them. The rebellion has started. Would the Elites not be branded as heretics at this point by the Covenant? Why would you think that you get to participate in the Great Journey when you are essentially being kicked out of your way into the Great Journey. If nothing else revenge on Tartarus for attempting to take your life or finding one of the remaining prophets to question them? What are his other options, take the rebellion and go hide?

 

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Should also post this here:

So, MCC had the release date Dec. 3rd on xbox, but now it's showing as releasing today, directly after XO19's Inside Xbox(meaning Reach on consoles probably will shadow drop during Inside Xbox). MCC PC shows Dec. 3rd.

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6 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

The Arbiter isn't "the Elites". Hence my focusing on the Arbiter's in depth adherence to the Great Journey and why I think he specifically is written in a flawed manner. The Elites as a majority may have questioned things, but the Arbiter originally did not, as we saw in game. 

Besides, being hunted down on orders from your own leader still doesn't invalidate anything. It's just killing you, lol. This is the same dude who was publicly humiliated and tortured by said leaders. And was already told by them tons of high powers wanted him dead, AND that his position was only TO die. And that those who wanted him dead would get results, one way or another. Tartarus' speech only indicates a clean house. Not "your religion is a lie". Especially given the context of the betrayal is literally done under the belief on both sides that the Index they obtain is gonna propel them into the Great Journey.

Which of course, to me, just makes the shock the Arbiter feels in that moment that much more dumb, lol. Why be surprised the people who say you're gonna die, one way or another, and give you the suicide role, actually act on killing you once your use is up. It's not like this is a heavy-handed implication in the job description or anything. Potentially just another unthought hole. For another twist. Which makes a character act oddly.

The Arbiter is an Elite. Maybe the game doesn't tell you "By the way the Arbiter may have some doubts on his religion". I can have doubts on my religion yet still believe in it and live my life the way my religion believes I should. 

You can't compare the beginning of the game to the scene with Tartarus. The beginning was meant for embarrassment. Arbiter was getting tortured and almost sent to death because of a failure. There's a difference in your leaders sending you out on a suicide mission vs your leaders turning your back on you and giving the Brutes the lead role which has caused a Civil War within your religion. If you don't see that then we have very different perspectives on what was told.

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If the prophets wanted to just execute the arbiter they wouldn't have saved him only to give him that title in the first place.

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If they botch this for a third time, this franchise is done for, man. 

PC players will not put up with garbage, and if their introduction to Halo on PC is trash, not very many of them will stick around and see what Infinite has to offer. 

I don’t see how they can have everything together and polished up in less than a month. 

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I'm sure PC players are looking forward to playing 3v4s with 100 ms input lag on useless dedicated servers with terrible netcode, frequent crashes, bloom, armor lock and no party restrictions. If this doesn't win them around then Halo Sprintfinite next year surely will. 

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