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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

I’d rather have to reload my gun than being punished for firing my gun as fast as possible. Reloading is perfectly ok in most games and much more preferable.

The two key differences between reloading and cooling down is that reloading requires an active button press and must be completed all at once.  Cooling down requires no button presses and is constantly occurring.  Both methods would eventually punish you for firing as fast as possible.  

2 hours ago, Arlong said:

To reduce long ranged engagements, to reduce lasering. That’s why developers add bloom all the time.

Fair enough.  What ramifications do you think vertical recoil has on encounters outside of long range?

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I've never understood the argument against bloom, that it would make the DMR/Needle Rifle and Magnum to dominant.

 

Like, we're playing the same Reach right? Those three weapons already dominate the sandbox, thats the nature of Halo, that precision headshot weapons tend to dominate. Removing bloom isn't going to suddenly make every other weapon redundant when they already are, it'll mean that the weapons that are already in the top spot aren't random fucking bullshit cannons. 

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If the DMR had the Needle Rifles reticule and bloom it'd be perfect. The Needle Rifle's reticule actually punishes spamming and rewards pacing in a meaningful and controllable way. The DMR's is dogshit.

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

I mean, the Beam Rifle has been punishing players for firing too fast since 2004.  The concept isn’t flawed so much as the execution (bloom as an accuracy penalty on the utility weapon).  

No, the concept is completely flawed. "Got a faster trigger finger and better aim? Too bad." That's bullshit.

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19 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

No, the concept is completely flawed. "Got a faster trigger finger and better aim? Too bad." That's bullshit.

So what you’re saying is you think the Beam Rifle should drain your shields for firing too fast instead of overheating.  Got it.  

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2 minutes ago, Boyo said:

So what you’re saying is you think the Beam Rifle should drain your shields for firing too fast instead of overheating.  Got it.  

Not quite, Rhonda.

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1) Please address me by my Christian name.  Dirty Rhonda.  

2) So what you’re saying is that the DMR should always be zero bloom, except when you’re sprinting, then it’s fully bloomed.  Alright, got it.  

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3 hours ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

I've never understood the argument against bloom, that it would make the DMR/Needle Rifle and Magnum to dominant.

 

Like, we're playing the same Reach right? Those three weapons already dominate the sandbox, thats the nature of Halo, that precision headshot weapons tend to dominate. Removing bloom isn't going to suddenly make every other weapon redundant when they already are, it'll mean that the weapons that are already in the top spot aren't random fucking bullshit cannons. 

This is sort of a negative of halo, not everyone likes that, this is why I believe halo 4 has the perfect sandbox since the precision weapons were still dominant and strong but weapons like the AR weren’t bad.

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1 hour ago, Arlong said:

 halo 4 has the perfect sandbox 

Yikes

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Take Ce's sandbox.

Make weapon switch speed near instant if not instant.  One problem with balance is even if other weapons are more ideal in certain situations the Magnum (or whatever the utility happens to be in other games) is still *good enough* so it's almost never worth wasting a full second to switch to that other gun unless you already have it out, doing so cancels out whatever advantage that other gun would give you in the first place.  Having faster switch would incentive use of other guns without fundamentally altering their place in the sandbox.  But ape Halo 3's system of having your secondary weapon clearly visibly on your model, hell maybe even highlight it, to prevent people just pulling rockets out of their ass instantly.

Remove all spread from the Plasma Rifle, buff it's killtime slightly so it's not literally 2x slower than all the other guns (reduced shots to kill instead of faster firing rate, don't want to make it spammy) and reduce projectile speed slightly.  Skillful, effective, but still situational automatic.

Edit: And I AM using the word literally correctly here, it actually is that slow.

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Ain't nobody trying to have a bloom debate again. Even 343 caved on it and provided alternatives while we were playing Reach and discontinued its use in every game post Reach. When we don't even come to a middle ground and the competitive community and 343 just lob a mechanic you know its nothing short of atrocious 

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55 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

Ain't nobody trying to have a bloom debate again. Even 343 caved on it and provided alternatives while we were playing Reach and discontinued its use in every game post Reach. When we don't even come to a middle ground and the competitive community and 343 just lob a mechanic you know its nothing short of atrocious 

Halo 4 Magnum and DMR would like a word with you...

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2 hours ago, The Tyco said:

Halo 4 Magnum and DMR would like a word with you...

Eh bloom was nearly non existent in the dmr. I liked h4s weapon balance precision were strong and dominant but the other weapons were also strong. If that game didn’t have loadouts and no descope it wouldn’t be so bad.

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You can’t convince the majority of gamers out there that CE has the perfect sandbox. It doesn’t matter to people if the magnum takes a lot of skill the fact is anyone can spam that shit and get a lucky 3sk. That in itself is what makes this weapon appear over powered. And even then this weapon makes everything else sort of look useless to pick up except in niche situations. The plasma rifle has a slowdown effect but you’d probably use that against someone who picked up OS, or something right? People want a diverse sandbox, a reason to pick this weapon up, but we also want a starting weapon that’s really strong so niche weapons are at least a must. I think cod is the best example of a preferred weapon sandbox the differences between an mp5&7 aren’t too much but there’s still some difference to give me a reason to use one over the other, but at the same time both weapons are still kill effective. The biggest thing people say to people when they say the CE pistol is OP is “they’re uninformed” yet at the end of the day that doesn’t change the look CE has. 

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3 hours ago, Arlong said:

Eh bloom was nearly non existent in the dmr. I liked h4s weapon balance precision were strong and dominant but the other weapons were also strong. If that game didn’t have loadouts and no descope it wouldn’t be so bad.

What you mean where they reduced it by so much on the DMR that most people don't even know it exists/isn't just visual? Sure its there but the carbine in H4 before the TU has more spread to it if we're looking for something scary and then after H4 where its even more unnoticeable in the next game. Its pretty obvious the devs really didn't want to actually have bloom in their games like it was in Reach since the direction of their work is also a solid line towards eliminating and reducing it as time goes on. 

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11 hours ago, Arlong said:

This is sort of a negative of halo, not everyone likes that, this is why I believe halo 4 has the perfect sandbox since the precision weapons were still dominant and strong but weapons like the AR weren’t bad.

This is the hottest of hot takes.  Halo's weapon sandbox hasn't actually been its strong point in a very long time.  Every weapon being strong is not a good sandbox. And the weapons in Halo 4 were strong for the wrong reasons.  They were strong AND easy. The lack of descope exacerbated the problem. The AR was probably the best thing about the Halo 4 sandbox. the Redundant Rock/Paper/Scissors sandbox in H5 is no better. "But the pistol SHOULD lose to the AR at close range." fucking why? Weapon A is objectively harder to use, especially in close range.  Weapon B is objectively easier especially at close range.  Why "should" the person using the more difficult weapon lose that encounter if they land all their shots?

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44 minutes ago, Apoll0 said:

This is the hottest of hot takes.  Halo's weapon sandbox hasn't actually been its strong point in a very long time.  Every weapon being strong is not a good sandbox. And the weapons in Halo 4 were strong for the wrong reasons.  They were strong AND easy. The lack of descope exacerbated the problem. The AR was probably the best thing about the Halo 4 sandbox. the Redundant Rock/Paper/Scissors sandbox in H5 is no better. "But the pistol SHOULD lose to the AR at close range." fucking why? Weapon A is objectively harder to use, especially in close range.  Weapon B is objectively easier especially at close range.  Why "should" the person using the more difficult weapon lose that encounter if they land all their shots?

A, R u mad BR0?

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18 hours ago, Arlong said:

Do you really need to over Analyze something like that? Just let the joke happen, gosh you sound like this guy at my work named Keegan who ruins everything because he over analyzes shit. 
god you’re one of those guys who watches a sci-fi movie and is like “that’s not physically possible” 

If hardway said it, itd be a funny joke

 

But  coming from you/someone with radical ideas/thoughts, it comes across as something totally different. Aka not a joke. 

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The pr is as good a weapon on chillout than the pistol. And pr snipe is a very common combo over pistol snipe. 

U also cant convince half the population that taxing the wealthy more is a good idea. Heck u cant convince them that moving into the next tax bracket doesnt make them less money. Convincing people who choose to be ignorant isnt something that should be considered.

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Also the dmr has enough bloom to matter and the br has enough spread to matter. Theres a reason that there was a push to use the light rifle as the main gun, because it was perfectly accurate. 

 

The counter argument was that the gun shoots orange bullets so it has no merit and that was it. Im not trolling. 

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17 hours ago, Shekkles said:

If the DMR had the Needle Rifles reticule and bloom it'd be perfect. The Needle Rifle's reticule actually punishes spamming and rewards pacing in a meaningful and controllable way. The DMR's is dogshit.

I actually agree. My problem is that the needle rifle is ugly as sin

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14 hours ago, Arlong said:

This is sort of a negative of halo, not everyone likes that, this is why I believe halo 4 has the perfect sandbox since the precision weapons were still dominant and strong but weapons like the AR weren’t bad.

If You're not playing Swat with Saws you're not taking advantage of the SandBox

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18 hours ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

I've never understood the argument against bloom, that it would make the DMR/Needle Rifle and Magnum to dominant.

 

Like, we're playing the same Reach right? Those three weapons already dominate the sandbox, thats the nature of Halo, that precision headshot weapons tend to dominate. Removing bloom isn't going to suddenly make every other weapon redundant when they already are, it'll mean that the weapons that are already in the top spot aren't random fucking bullshit cannons. 

To play the devil's advocate, I can kinda see where they're coming from. Accurate hitscan weapons punish shit map design. No longer can you exist out in the open without being punished for it. Playing Breakpoint this past weekend gave me a reminder of this; you get up on the middle ledge and can ping people from their spawn point without them really being able to do anything back.

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Reach could benefit massively from just a few tweaks to the sandbox but given that 343 didn't fix that garbage in 2011 we're never going to see that happen. Literally:

  • Disable bloom
  • Make DMR 4sk and NR 7sk
  • Magnum needs RoF nerf to not be broken, remove spread
  • Buff the AR and the other autos if you want, I really don't care

And the game is instantly 10x better, even with the AAs (ideally these should go too, but someone think of the r/halo "good positioning is not really part of my playstyle" brainlets.)

 

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