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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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I'm back after playing Escape in Gears and it's one of the worst experiences I've ever had in that franchise.  It boggles my mind how much they've marketed that mode as a legitimate corner of the game.  No one is going to be playing that in several weeks.

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1 hour ago, JordanB said:

Just because you don't like a game doesn't make it a shitty game.

Dude if I say a game is shit it’s because I don’t like it, I could give two shits if you or someone else likes it. 

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8 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

I'm back after playing Escape in Gears and it's one of the worst experiences I've ever had in that franchise.  It boggles my mind how much they've marketed that mode as a legitimate corner of the game.  No one is going to be playing that in several weeks.

Is it just a linear series of PvE combat zones or is there something more?

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

After you finished the campaign, how many hours of Firefight did you have to play before ODST became a good value?

32

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1 hour ago, Oby said:

I'm a little late to the party, but after reading the pages after @Cursed Lemon's analysis of the novelty of the three first Halo games (quoted above), I felt I had a duty to point out a "meta-aspect" that is missing. And, when you realize this meta-aspect, I think it actually is possible to conceive of new "killer methods" of the kind @Cursed Lemonis talking about.

The "meta-aspect" I am thinking about is the form of revolutions that H1, H2 and H3 brought to the table. While H1, H2 and H3 are quite different games when it comes to actual gameplay/sandbox, that is not what @Cursed Lemonemphasized. The revolutions he is pointing to are:

  1. Bringing the FPS to console in a way that actually works well - i.e. revolutionary mechanics, control setups, etc. that works on console (H1).
  2. Creating a multiplayer experience (parties, matchmaking, friends list and clans) that raised the bar for games (H2).
  3. Map editor, demo viewer (theater), file sharing (H3).

I think Lemon's analysis is very accurate: it is not necessarily the gameplay of these games that were decisive in their popularity. It is the features that surround the core gameplay. Indeed, as a huge H1 fan, who finds H2 and H3 to be inferior with regard to gameplay, I would even go as far as to argue that the increased popularity of the Halo series through H2 and H3 happened despite drop in gameplay/sandbox/map quality. Put differently: the increase in well thought out features around the core gameplay experience was just as, if not more important, than the gameplay itself.

If this analysis is correct - as I think it is, what is the implication we can draw from it?

In my view, this demonstrates that innovation in core gameplay are not necessarily needed. Indeed, this most of us already argue for due to the fact that we like first trilogy the best among the Halo games. But the key takeaway is that there is nevertheless room for innovation by adding surrounding features. And I do not think, as @Cursed Lemon may be read as thinking, that the Halo series at its peak in surrounding features, left no room to innovate (i.e. during H3 - later games have generally cut surrounding features compared to H3).

There are many new features that could be added, expanding on the sum of all H1 through H3 features. For example:

  • Live spectating (we have that in H5, so it would not be entirely new).
  • Full tournament integration with XBLs tournament system.
  • Proper API support for automatic score reporting, advanced stats, etc.
  • Even better web integration with the game (like we had for H2 and H3 with heat maps, good file search engines, etc - but much improved).
  • PC map editor that can make proper maps (geometry), which could then be forged on to place items etc.
  • Something like Steam Workshop.
  • Proper clan/team support, building on what worked well in H2.
  • Ladders directly integrated into the game.
  • Ability for third party communities (such as HaloNorge, the Norwegian community, which I run) to serve content directly into the game - e.g. announcements of new tournaments. This could be limited to people that are part of a "HaloNorge group" in the game for example.

I could go on. And I guess many of you have ideas along similar lines. Such features are, in my mind, more important innovations than changing up a winning gameplay formula. Stick with the H1 (preferably), H2 (next best) or H3's (okey, I'll live) gameplay formula. But improve the features around the gameplay. Never accept fewer features than H2/H3. That, in my view, is the key to another successful Halo game.

These are all great QoL improvements for Halo but I would argue that 1) a lot of them are playing catchup or even reinstating features that Halo has already seen, and 2) these aren't really the "killer" features that I'm speaking of, in that they don't transform either the playing experience or the content creation capacity to a significant degree. The most pressing issue on this list is mod support for any Halo title that drops on PC (possibly with the ability to import to console), as that allows the fans to create and consume original content to the degree that it could become an entirely new game. Other than that? These are all features that benefit Halo fans who are still here, but you'd be hard-pressed to argue that they would draw in new ones - people that are looking for a revolutionary gaming experience, not just a polished Halo one. 

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59 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

These are all great QoL improvements for Halo but I would argue that 1) a lot of them are playing catchup or even reinstating features that Halo has already seen, and 2) these aren't really the "killer" features that I'm speaking of, in that they don't transform either the playing experience or the content creation capacity to a significant degree. The most pressing issue on this list is mod support for any Halo title that drops on PC (possibly with the ability to import to console), as that allows the fans to create and consume original content to the degree that it could become an entirely new game. Other than that? These are all features that benefit Halo fans who are still here, but you'd be hard-pressed to argue that they would draw in new ones - people that are looking for a revolutionary gaming experience, not just a polished Halo one. 

I'm thinking space battles.

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

Dude if I say a game is shit it’s because I don’t like it, I could give two shits if you or someone else likes it. 

Yeah thats not how u should do things. U can like shit games and hate good games. 

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3 hours ago, Arlong said:

Dude if I say a game is shit it’s because I don’t like it, I could give two shits if you or someone else likes it. 

So you don't like a game = shit game?

Well I guess every single player game ever made is a shit game. Geez how did we have so many generations of gaming go on with all shit games. Makes total sense.

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Remember folks "opinions can't be wrong". Sometimes I miss Meanbean.

edit: I was joking lol

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Example: I like Black Ops 4. Is it a great game? No, really only Blackout and Barebones is worth playing. Same goes with H5, I only enjoy niche things in Custom Games.

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10 hours ago, Basu said:

Remember folks "opinions can't be wrong". Sometimes I miss Meanbean.

When it’s an opinion about what someone views as good or bad it literally can’t be wrong. This isn’t up for debate. I acknowledge gears is good to many people doesn’t mean I’m going to change my opinion of the game. My opinion is not wrong but nor is it right. This is literally the same opinion of pineapple on pizza is shit, where many like myself enjoy it but there’s many who also hate it. They’re not wrong nor are they right. It’s called an opinion for a reason. Did I claim it as fact? No I didn’t! 

It’s obviously not a shit game to someone else. 

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8 hours ago, HeX Reapers said:

Example: I like Black Ops 4. Is it a great game? No, really only Blackout and Barebones is worth playing. Same goes with H5, I only enjoy niche things in Custom Games.

What makes it a bad game, what makes it bad? There’s tons of good reviews, it’s tournaments have had more views than previous games. The fact is it’s not bad but it’s not good either simply because there’s a good chunk that love and hate it.

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11 hours ago, Arlong said:

What makes it a bad game, what makes it bad? There’s tons of good reviews, it’s tournaments have had more views than previous games. The fact is it’s not bad but it’s not good either simply because there’s a good chunk that love and hate it.

Specialist, terrible maps, long ass kill times. Lackluster zombies, no campaign. 

I don’t have one friend irl who continued playing after like 2 months from its launch. And I have a lot of friends who play CoD. 

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17 hours ago, Arlong said:

What makes it a bad game, what makes it bad? There’s tons of good reviews, it’s tournaments have had more views than previous games. The fact is it’s not bad but it’s not good either simply because there’s a good chunk that love and hate it.

God I really want to hear what you sound like lmao

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38 minutes ago, HeX Reapers said:

God I really want to hear what you sound like lmao

And I don’t want to hear what you sound like. 

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6 hours ago, darkstar said:

Specialist, terrible maps, long ass kill times. Lackluster zombies, no campaign. 

I don’t have one friend irl who continued playing after like 2 months from its launch. And I have a lot of friends who play CoD. 

My point is it’s not bad to some people, you get that? I’m just saying that an opinion of what is liked and not liked isn’t up for debate. I think country music is shit, but there’s a good chunk of people who’d disagree. 

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32 minutes ago, HeX Reapers said:

Here we go again.

Here goes what again? Is this not the first time this has been discussed? An opinion can be challenged, but it cannot be wrong, at the very least an opinion of likes and dislikes.

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5 hours ago, Arlong said:

Here goes what again? Is this not the first time this has been discussed? An opinion can be challenged, but it cannot be wrong, at the very least an opinion of likes and dislikes.

You're literally repeating your complete Non point over and over and fucking over again because youre that ass hurt that people here percieve your ideology of perfectly symmetrical subjectivity as a Fallacy 

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4 hours ago, Vyrst said:

You're literally repeating your complete Non point over and over and fucking over again because youre that ass hurt that people here percieve your ideology of perfectly symmetrical subjectivity as a Fallacy 

Because it’s ******** to think you can debate that an opinion of likes and dislike can be argued against you moron. This isn’t something you can debate; simply because there’s no facts to bring to the table. 

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Y’all should probably get super angry about this thing that matters.

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4 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I remember when I thought opinions couldn't be wrong. All the way back when I was 17. 

There’s certain opinions that can be wrong, but an opinion of likes and dislikes can’t. One person likes the color red, the other person dislikes the color red. How can that person be wrong? This started because someone disliked my opinion of gears because I said it was a shitty game. What did you want me to be nice about it or something and simply say “I don’t like gears”? 

This isn’t some Sesame Street bs.

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8 minutes ago, Arlong said:

What did you want me to be nice about it or something and simply say “I don’t like gears”? 

Well god knows we can't have that

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