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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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52 minutes ago, Arlong said:

I mean usually pc games have server browsers which I bet will to mcc pc easier than Xbox.

Oh yeah I completely forgot that they promised a custom game browser for MCC. Hope that's coming at some point. 

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On 9/2/2019 at 7:01 PM, Hully said:

I think the best Halo could do is just be completely buttoned up. No more weird gameplay, no more nagging problems like heavy aim, no more weapon tuning updates that essentially break the game, etc. Just a buttoned up experience, with solid gameplay, maps, mechanics, content, social features and support from the moment it launches until the moment Halo 7 comes out.

This. When people talk about what the next halo game should look like, this is along the same line of thought that I usually have. I feel like we have not ever gotten a halo that simply attempts to combine the best of the features that came before it (my opinion is that H2A was actually the closest to doing so, but unfortunately that was a glorified demo shipping on a broken disc). Now some of these "bests" are clearly subjective opinions, but in other areas perhaps not. In Halo 3 we had the ability to go into theater as a squad and watch gameplay together, simultaneously. And then in reach this was dropped for... ?campaign?, never to be recreated (if this is a thing in H5, I apologize as I do not think I've spent a single second in H5 theater). Early halos had great split screen capabilities for playing with locals, another objective plus inexplicably dropped. Working LAN support without need to be online. Dedicated servers for matchmaking. These are a few of what I feel are objective positives that should be the basis for creating a solid Halo. Will it be groundbreaking like some of the predecessors? No. But would it be complete, functional, and almost certainly "feel" like a halo game? I should think so.

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If Halo Infinite doesn't have sprint and I was in charge of marketing the game, I would make the slogan 'Halo is back'

Just have this expansive, epic trailer showing off the fancy new graphics but also showing off the return to classic art style. Elite that looks refined, graceful and nimble, grunts with helmets and pointy backpacks. UNSC green and blocky, not UNSC white and circular.

Then I'd show Multiplayer gameplay with all the classic weapons. One or two remade maps for the rose tinting and then towards the end of the trailer,

HALO

IS

BACK

End the trailer with a bang, then the monk chanting as the release date/box art comes up.

10/10 would market previous Halo players.

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17 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

If Halo Infinite doesn't have sprint and I was in charge of marketing the game, I would make the slogan 'Halo is back'

Just have this expansive, epic trailer showing off the fancy new graphics but also showing off the return to classic art style. Elite that looks refined, graceful and nimble, grunts with helmets and pointy backpacks. UNSC green and blocky, not UNSC white and circular.

Then I'd show Multiplayer gameplay with all the classic weapons. One or two remade maps for the rose tinting and then towards the end of the trailer,

HALO

IS

BACK

End the trailer with a bang, then the monk chanting as the release date/box art comes up.

10/10 would market previous Halo players.

Pretty much what they should be doing anyway with MCC on PC. People will go crazy over nostalgia. Just look at WOW Classic.

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5 minutes ago, andregr said:

Pretty much what they should be doing anyway with MCC on PC. People will go crazy over nostalgia. Just look at WOW Classic.

There was a good article about nostalgia and why it's so powerful for video games and a lot of it was "I spent hundreds of hours learning this and then everything changed and I lost all of that skillset and therefore lost interest".

So when they re-released classic, all of that skillset and knowledge became useful again. I've never played WoW so I couldn't care less but boy oh boy are some of my friends in nostalgia heaven right now.

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If Infinite on PC doesn't have its own dev kit/map editor seperate from forge I'll be kind of disappointed and feel that they aren't making enough use of the PC platform. Some of the most famous maps in games have stemmed from fan built maps. CS's competitive scene used tons of them in their rotation. It would be so great for the community as a whole if we had access to better fan made maps.

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No more remakes. Either they're good, faithful remakes and people cling to them and refuse to give any other map a fair shake, or they're bad remakes/"re-imaginations" and they turn out terrible and people get mad at you for butchering their binky. If forge/content creation is up to par then all the good classic maps will be remade by the community within two weeks anyway.

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22 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

But most of what sells a map is the lighting and artistic framing. Not necessarily the level of detail.  

IMO, what sells a map is it being good, over looking good, lol. Likewise...

17 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

edit: Should've said lesser-skilled, poor choice of words.  My apologies. My point was that just because forge gets better doesn't necessarily mean the maps you'll see in matchmaking will look any better than they do now. 

Why would it matter if they won't "ever" (Potentially) look good as long as they play well? Forge itself as a "map editor" really only lacks the dev-made assets (And inherent obvious ability to alter dev-maps) that would make the maps look nicer. You can get all the function you need however. Without having to jump through hoops to make it. Again, not against a map editor, dev-style. Would be great. They're fun to grind out. But I think there's a poor priority on looks, here.  

13 hours ago, Basu said:

I hope these mods are also possible on Xbox. I always considered making the Firefight and MP maps separate entities a complete waste of resources. Hell, just add them to the MP selection at lauch, I'm sure people will make them work.

Probably could. But the question is, "why"? Maybe it's a short-term ten minutes of fun. But none of the maps would work at all for MP, lol. They're generally AI playspaces first. MP second. In the case of things like Powerhouse. Or Sword Base (And we all know how those turned out). MP on Corvette? Oof. MP on Holdout? OOOOF.

Dunno. Could be picking weird fruit but a novelty thing is such a weird aspect to me.

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37 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

There was a good article about nostalgia and why it's so powerful for video games and a lot of it was "I spent hundreds of hours learning this and then everything changed and I lost all of that skillset and therefore lost interest".

So when they re-released classic, all of that skillset and knowledge became useful again. I've never played WoW so I couldn't care less but boy oh boy are some of my friends in nostalgia heaven right now.

I think a much better example of this is probably oldschool runescape. As someone that played Halo, WoW, and OSRS a lot Halo, unfortunately, really falls more in line with what happened to rs players than what happened with WoW players. WoW just lost a lot of its community aspect and the acquisition of gear changed drastically but actually doubled down about a hundred times over on pushing and refining the skill set you learned as you slowly got better at that game and played through the various expansions up until this point. Raids are just infinitely more complex than the olden days of Molten Core. WoW while different is also shockingly the same still in many ways. RS on the other hand sort of just pulled the rug out from under players and changed everything to the point that the game was nearly unrecognizable and so when they made the oldschool version it actually became more popular than the current latest version fairly quickly. Halo in different aspects is similar to both situations but not as extreme in either direction. With proper care and marketing nostalgia is probably the strongest contributor to sales that MS/343 could use.

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20 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

IMO, what sells a map is it being good, over looking good, lol. Likewise...

How do you know if it's a good map before you've made the decision to download it?

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37 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

IMO, what sells a map is it being good, over looking good, lol. Likewise...

 

17 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

How do you know if it's a good map before you've made the decision to download it?

The map does need to look appealing if you want players to even give it a fair shake. Art direction gets players in the door.

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49 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

How do you know if it's a good map before you've made the decision to download it?

Would be a good idea if (Given we have the tools now in the most recent Halo) people uploaded images with overhead layouts and the like, ala MCC, lol. So I could tell what sorta tongue-tied bologna bullshit is going on. Rather than a pepped up image that does nothing to actually show me anything about the map, other than look "nice" and "stylistic" while telling me literally nothing. Wouldn't be too hard. I could do it for these people if they wanted me to. It's not hard. And is useful. And when done right, can look great. 

Same for descriptions. We don't need storytime for our maps. Explicitly tell me your map's design, verticality, etc in a good, well-written way so I can understand it. Be curt, to the point, but don't skimp on essentials. You can replace a layout overlay by telling me about it, properly.

With how Halo 5's forge maps turned out, them looking nice and an emphasis on that is the biggest indicator (to me) that it's gonna blow chunks, lol.

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This is going to sound crazy, but most people would rather judge by a picture than read about the map and make sense of it. Obviously make it good before it's pretty, but pretty gets people interested.

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Just now, OG Nick said:

This is going to sound crazy, but most people would rather judge by a picture than read about the map and make sense of it. Obviously make it good before it's pretty, but pretty gets people interested.

Almost as if my first suggestion was use a picture, and use it intelligently. 

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

Almost as if my first suggestion was use a picture, and use it intelligently. 

Almost as if you made a point of having a description of the map and an overhead view that most people could care less about. Almost as if people complained about ugly gray maps were constantly bitched about in Reach so having maps look good from forge is a good thing. I'd rather the map look good than be a gray blob that uses tiny ass lights for decoration.

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Just now, OG Nick said:

Almost as if you made a point of having a description of the map and an overhead view that most people could care less about. Almost as if people complained about ugly gray maps were constantly bitched about in Reach so having maps look good from forge is a good thing. I'd rather the map look good than be a gray blob that uses tiny ass lights for decoration.

Okay, that's cool. 

I'm just saying we can have ways to show what a map is like without having to get overtly and vaguely artsy (to a fault) with something to the point I don't have a clear idea as to what the map is like, other than a pseudo-larpy description and image. 

What you like about maps or want really is irrelevant to me or my point, lol. Because you could have both. Gray maps with an overlay to tell me about it, or an in depth editor to make fancy maps, with an overlay. Or just a good paragraph/few sentences. Whatever works.

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I more or less don't really care if the map is shown with whatever, an overhead, a paragraph, etc, but the average player just wants a picture of the map they recognize because people like to pick maps like they're ordering from a menu. 

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4 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

I more or less don't really care if the map is shown with whatever, an overhead, a paragraph, etc, but the average player just wants a picture of the map they recognize because people like to pick maps like they're ordering from a menu. 

Okay, and that doesn't at all detract from the fact you could have both, lol. Have a pretty basic image and an overhead image of your map side by side/within the same file on the file share. So people who just impulse click maps for looks can get their fill and the people who are looking for potentially viable new maps to play/scrim on can get their fill. There's no downside to this, dude, lol.

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2 hours ago, Shekkles said:

There was a good article about nostalgia and why it's so powerful for video games and a lot of it was "I spent hundreds of hours learning this and then everything changed and I lost all of that skillset and therefore lost interest".

So when they re-released classic, all of that skillset and knowledge became useful again. I've never played WoW so I couldn't care less but boy oh boy are some of my friends in nostalgia heaven right now.

I’ve never played wow but I’m enjoying classic ATM

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The funny thing about forge in reach was a decent amount of the maps played very well, but because of the dull grey colors it made people dislike them. Just thinking of that makes me long for Devkit maps made by the community that are downloaded on steam, so people can play them via custom browser.

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3 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

IMO, what sells a map is it being good, over looking good, lol. Likewise...

Why would it matter if they won't "ever" (Potentially) look good as long as they play well? Forge itself as a "map editor" really only lacks the dev-made assets (And inherent obvious ability to alter dev-maps) that would make the maps look nicer. You can get all the function you need however. Without having to jump through hoops to make it. Again, not against a map editor, dev-style. Would be great. They're fun to grind out. But I think there's a poor priority on looks, here.  

Probably could. But the question is, "why"? Maybe it's a short-term ten minutes of fun. But none of the maps would work at all for MP, lol. They're generally AI playspaces first. MP second. In the case of things like Powerhouse. Or Sword Base (And we all know how those turned out). MP on Corvette? Oof. MP on Holdout? OOOOF.

Dunno. Could be picking weird fruit but a novelty thing is such a weird aspect to me.

I mean. Who are you trying to argue with here lol obviously function takes priority over form. We're just talking about forge limitations and the perception they've given forge maps as plastic slabs. I mentioned lighting and composition as greater priorities over raw level of detail for selling the map['s believability]. 

 

As for your second suggestion, I don't know how you'd build a tool that captures a top down layout but to be honest I don't think having that would be able to tell you anything about the map. And we already are able to put descriptions, it's just up to the authors to describe it. An in game review system might be better. 

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I might be a complete shithead but I like playing on powerhouse.

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22 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

I might be a complete shithead but I like playing on powerhouse.

It’s not all bad really. It’s great for ffa, swat, infection. But In terms of competitive play not really good. Sword base is another map that actually plays decently well for what it’s worth. It’s got good geometry and a control high ground play style. If you cut off some parts of the map it can play quite well. I understand it’s no MLG good but I don’t think all maps need to be. I don’t hate sword base or powerhouse from a casual play style perspective but a competitive one where I truly want to win then ok you got me. 

High ground is a map I can think of that’s fun to play but frustratingly annoying from a competitive stand point, but I don’t hate the map. Assembly is a map I can think of that sucks for everything.

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1 hour ago, Arlong said:

It’s not all bad really. It’s great for ffa, swat, infection. But In terms of competitive play not really good. Sword base is another map that actually plays decently well for what it’s worth. It’s got good geometry and a control high ground play style. If you cut off some parts of the map it can play quite well. I understand it’s no MLG good but I don’t think all maps need to be. I don’t hate sword base or powerhouse from a casual play style perspective but a competitive one where I truly want to win then ok you got me. 

High ground is a map I can think of that’s fun to play but frustratingly annoying from a competitive stand point, but I don’t hate the map. Assembly is a map I can think of that sucks for everything.

I'd love to know what they were thinking when they made Assembly

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