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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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2 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Remember when Halo 3's water was state of the art?

Honestly, it still is lol.  The only game I've seen otherwise that I thought did impressive water tech was in Battlefield 4 where they networked the ocean so everyone saw the same waves.

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12 hours ago, L377UC3 said:

I've had an idea in my head for an FPS on the interior of a fully rendered hollowed out structure, where the player is essentially solving a planet sized Rubik's cube to create pathways or change connections between areas, or radically alter the environment and world geometry.

Metroid Prime?

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It made me think of Arcane Dimensions, which he should definitely play right now (more specifically Sepulchre, Adamantine, and Grendel).  There is no destructible environment but there is definitely multiple maps with a central hub, multiple sections with unlockable shortcuts leading back to hub feel to them.  Been wanting a full campaign like that ever since and looks like I might be getting it with Wrath: Aeon of Ruin.

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Ye basically a 3d Metroidvania, but on a continental scale. Areas are still, mechanically speaking, dungeons traveled through in one or two directions, but with open-world conventions and sensibilities. Then you'd be altering the world map in dramatic ways, shifting continents or draining oceans or connecting celestial bridgeways to orbiting satellite environments, all in an effort to reshuffle the game world so stuff is where you can get to it easily for whatever your next big challenge is.

Quote

It made me think of Arcane Dimensions, 

I'll check it out, thanks.

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Custom edition is literally just Modding, it’s not done on a console as a in game feature like forge. You don’t load up custom edition and it has an option to make a map or anything of the sort. so it’s not to be compared. It’s obvious the CE kit would be superior. 

Hitmarkers are all deep in the code, to remove them from a specific item would be a waste of time and it be better to remove them as a whole.

 

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4 hours ago, L377UC3 said:

Ye basically a 3d Metroidvania, but on a continental scale. Areas are still, mechanically speaking, dungeons traveled through in one or two directions, but with open-world conventions and sensibilities. Then you'd be altering the world map in dramatic ways, shifting continents or draining oceans or connecting celestial bridgeways to orbiting satellite environments, all in an effort to reshuffle the game world so stuff is where you can get to it easily for whatever your next big challenge is.

I'll check it out, thanks.

It's nothing so dramatic as any of that, but the maps are very open ended in design.  Multiple areas to pick from, areas that all loop intelligently on each other and contain keys to unlocking other areas, secret rooms and passages littered everywhere.  Sepulchre literally has 50 something secrets to unveil.  None of which are actually needed to reach the end of the level, mind, but just uncovering them is a reward in itself.

It's not what you describe but it's like the precursor to that.  Very metroidvania feeling while still retaining the classic beginning-to-end level structure.

Just watch about the first four minutes.  

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Sorry to stop by just to complain but Is 343 just going to leave the hit registration how it is in MCC? It's shockingly bad especially playing from EU to US. Also little things like not being about to mute people before getting into a game is really irritating. 

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U can make a map on custom edition then put it on combat evolved and play it on console. It doesnt matter if its a mod  

So halo infinite should let you make maps just like devs and play it on console. 

Its not hard to make the connection people. “Of course its better.” Yeah no shit hence why its under “things halo can do better” section broskis. They could have done it for h5 but didnt. 

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1 hour ago, Riddler said:

U can make a map on custom edition then put it on combat evolved and play it on console. It doesnt matter if its a mod  

So halo infinite should let you make maps just like devs and play it on console. 

Its not hard to make the connection people. “Of course its better.” Yeah no shit hence why its under “things halo can do better” section broskis. They could have done it for h5 but didnt. 

I love this post lol. Its really something that doesn't get talked about enough and I kind of assume its because a lot of people just played on console and don't really know about map editors or expect quality ones because they're rare in that realm of gaming but if they branch out to PC having dev tools and real map editors is pretty common in comparison. For the longest time I suspected this was just done to protect the DLC revenue since forge is actually pretty trash. Uploading to a file share or direct download to your profile on XBL after editing on PC with a real map editor would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything we've ever had officially supported on console. It would be such an absurd upgrade it would have a bigger impact than going from no forge to having forge was originally in H3. This could be part of the next big thing cursed lemon was asking if Halo could ever do again. Not to mention it would let us help 343 get their map design out of here and some good maps purpose built for better settings into MM. With proper support the game would be better for quite literally anyone with the time to download the maps.

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38 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

I love this post lol. Its really something that doesn't get talked about enough and I kind of assume its because a lot of people just played on console and don't really know about map editors or expect quality ones because they're rare in that realm of gaming but if they branch out to PC having dev tools and real map editors is pretty common. Forge is pretty trash. Uploading to a file share or direct download to your profile on XBL after editing on PC with a real map editor would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything we've ever had officially supported on console. It would be such an absurd upgrade it would have a bigger impact than going from no forge to having forge was originally in H3. This could be part of the next big thing cursed lemon was asking if Halo could ever do again. Not to mention it would let us help 343 get their map design out of here and some good maps purpose built for better settings into MM. With proper support the game would be better for quite literally anyone with the time to download the maps.

It'd be an upgrade at the cost of ease of use and accessibility, something that amps up forge's very existence and the ability to churn out unique UGC, something Halo thrives on. Forge isn't trash for what it is.

However, I think a map editor that's full of official assets would be useful for making maps prettier, and more seamless. I don't think it would be the "next big thing", given the learning curve, so the actual feature itself isn't drawing people in, and in turn, people have to wait for a minority to make maps that might not even be good, but'll just look nicer, or more seamless. Production value increases aren't gonna suddenly increase actual map quality. And if we're gonna go by actual comp-forge maps that exist already, most of which tend to be straight downgrades of dev-maps, I'd rather we get good with the tools we have before ramping it up a notch and thinking that'll fix anything, lol. Especially with how versatile forge as a tool is now.

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The problem with forge is that it will always be inferior to a real map editor. Any forge map that was amazing would have been even better. It doesn't really matter if people get good with forge or not because its simply a handicap at the end of the day that prevents creative people from fully delivering on what they wanted to do. People have already done amazing things with it and their maps, at the end of the day, simply have issues because you aren't actually allowed to make a "real" map with it. Maybe its lag, maybe its not visually pleasing, maybe the geometry is impossible, maybe to create the map you wanted you have to use so many objects the engine can't handle it because at the end of the day forge was at best an interesting take on a map editor for console built for people that have no idea what they're doing so that they can stack some boxes and play with a few things. Over time people figured out how to merge objects and in later games got more detailed controls and options. They could've simply just been allowed to use an actual map editor. We're just signing up for never really having quality maps from anyone other than 343 by keeping forge. Which is fine if you just want the fun gametypes and the occasional mindblowing moment when someone gets close to making a very good map but if you just want quality maps at the end of the day the editor needs to be out there for people that seriously want to make something cool.

Its not just new maps either. Imagine back when Blackout released in Halo 3 and everyone realized putting glass in the window and the railings just screwed up the entire map. With an actual editor that would've been fixed by the community within a few days if not hours. Those silly boxes everywhere on the Pit would've been turned into actual jump ups. We'd have deleted shield doors before bungie. People could basically just rebuild specific parts of dev made maps and, if we're lucky, they'd be collected in a title update if they were just improvements. Everything would just be more polished given proper support and attention by 343 over time. They would just have free labor 

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Forge needs basic things pretty badly. Weather settings, time of day, more types of items than just the standard human, terrain editing that's actually good and AI spawning come to mind.

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Halo 5's forge is the first time where you are actually able to start blurring the lines and establish the art direction you want. Up until now its been stacking a palette on top of 4 traffic cones and saying "look it's a dog." But because we actually have the ability to sell an idea now the limitations have become even more obvious. Before you just kinda accepted forge maps as bunches of boxes merged together. But now we got people making space stations, hellscapes, castles, which is an improvement..But those environments usually look really bad related to what they should actually look like. Which is even more frustrating because in small scale you can actually make some really convincing stuff, just not for the whole map. Too many limits within the object cap at 1600 and the lighting engine crapping out. 

 

For reference, my professional maps I've made usually float around 9,000 to 35,000 unique actors in the scene between assets, lights, objective, scripts, etc. So with forge now you've reaaaaaaallly got to stretch what you've got with 1,600. 

 

Honestly assuming Infinite fixes the shitty lighting engine and maybe triples the object cap you'll start seeing some comparable results to dev quality maps from good forgers. Bad forgers will continue to make maps look like how they have. 

 

Little bit of self bragging right here - but these are the shots that I use to headline my professional portfolio and they're from forge, not my professional work.

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Granted the rest of the map looks like shit because I basically used 90% of my object count on like 3 shots lmao but most of what sells a map is the lighting and artistic framing. Not necessarily the level of detail.  

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47 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

Granted the rest of the map looks like shit because I basically used 90% of my object count on like 3 shots lmao but most of what sells a map is the lighting and artistic framing. Not necessarily the level of detail.  

Arcanum looks great you shut your whore mouth.

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I've said this before but Purple Reign played better, looked better, and felt better (as in, really felt like a Halo map) than any of the H5 retail maps, and I'm pretty sure it was made before textures or any other subtle forge improvements were added.

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its what ice said before, u can release the h5 forge and just release the map editor as well. that's just the best of both worlds. 

Though you may be overselling how difficult it is to use a map editor. i'd rather make a map in CE than make anything serious in halo 3 forge. In halo 3, people made fucking amazing maps for the tools they had access too. These same people could have just made the same map, but better, on the map dev kit. okay well none of know if the h3 one would be worse than the ce map kit i guess. 

I'm imagining halo 1 maps vs what the map kit was able to give us.

if halo infinite got all the tools/more tools than what ce got, that would definitely put halo back on the map. dudes can literally create their own campaign missions. if 343 actually put in work to make it user friendly, its basically endless content. Who would win? 60 grunts or 6 hunters? what if the grunts had sniper rifles on the 3rd campaign mission?

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23 minutes ago, Riddler said:

its what ice said before, u can release the h5 forge and just release the map editor as well. that's just the best of both worlds. 

Though you may be overselling how difficult it is to use a map editor. i'd rather make a map in CE than make anything serious in halo 3 forge. In halo 3, people made fucking amazing maps for the tools they had access too. These same people could have just made the same map, but better, on the map dev kit. okay well none of know if the h3 one would be worse than the ce map kit i guess. 

I'm imagining halo 1 maps vs what the map kit was able to give us.

if halo infinite got all the tools/more tools than what ce got, that would definitely put halo back on the map. dudes can literally create their own campaign missions. if 343 actually put in work to make it user friendly, its basically endless content. Who would win? 60 grunts or 6 hunters? what if the grunts had sniper rifles on the 3rd campaign mission?

Trenchbroom is piss easy to use. Halo should have something like that.

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What if Forge was turned into a full blown dev tool system, with a Lite, streamlined version for more casual users as an option? By Lite, I mean similar or exactly like the current system we have, or even more in line with Reach's/H4's/H2A's more gamified approach versus a new full blown Halo Custom Edition on the modern engine for more serious map designers. Both can upload maps to the main game on PC or console, both can coexist, and only one dev tool system is neccessary to run it. Win win, I say.

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5 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Bad forgers will continue to make maps look like how they have. 

Not sure about bad, more just "non-hobbyist" forgers. I've played plenty of fantastic game modes on forge maps that haven't been function over anything else. Not many dedicate the time needed to make it look amazing.

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2 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Not sure about bad, more just "non-hobbyist" forgers. I've played plenty of fantastic game modes on forge maps that haven't been function over anything else. Not many dedicate the time needed to make it look amazing.

edit: Should've said lesser-skilled, poor choice of words.  My apologies. My point was that just because forge gets better doesn't necessarily mean the maps you'll see in matchmaking will look any better than they do now. 

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I gotta say, Reach is looking pretty tantalizing after watching GameCheat's modded firefight maps to be Multiplayer maps. Hopefully MLG V7 gets put into the ranked gametypes, if not I can deal with TU.

 

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I hope these mods are also possible on Xbox. I always considered making the Firefight and MP maps separate entities a complete waste of resources. Hell, just add them to the MP selection at lauch, I'm sure people will make them work.

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3 hours ago, Basu said:

I hope these mods are also possible on Xbox. I always considered making the Firefight and MP maps separate entities a complete waste of resources. Hell, just add them to the MP selection at lauch, I'm sure people will make them work.

They won’t. Console games have always had limited or no mods and when they do get mods the developers sells them lmao. You might as well get a pc man because trust me it ain’t happening. 

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19 minutes ago, Arlong said:

They won’t. Console games have always had limited or no mods and when they do get mods the developers sells them lmao. You might as well get a pc man because trust me it ain’t happening.  

I already have a good PC and I'm 100% getting MCC on PC haha, but I want to play this with more than 5 dudes you know. Given that modders did this within 24h of the flight releasing I doubt it would be much effort on 343s side.

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40 minutes ago, Basu said:

I already have a good PC and I'm 100% getting MCC on PC haha, but I want to play this with more than 5 dudes you know. Given that modders did this within 24h of the flight releasing I doubt it would be much effort on 343s side.

I mean usually pc games have server browsers which I bet will to mcc pc easier than Xbox.

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