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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Do you guys have any ideas for social features that could "revolutionize" games like XBL did for Halo 2, and Forge/Theater and the file share system did for H3?

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53 minutes ago, NavG123 said:

Do you guys have any ideas for social features that could "revolutionize" games like XBL did for Halo 2, and Forge/Theater and the file share system did for H3?

Here's the problem - no I don't. 

I've said this before and I stand by it (think I talked to @S0UL FLAME about it). CE comes out and is the killer app for a brand new system. It's the first wildly popular game on console to use the dual analog control scheme. It basically codified several mechanics for console shooters like aim assist. It's an absolute LAN'ing dream machine in the pre-XBL age. It's also a brand new IP and it's well produced. Halo 2 rolls around, and literally creates the online console lobby/friend/matchmaking system as we know it today. It is the online console game to play. Halo 3 hits. Now we've got a map editor and a gameplay demo reviewer, which was enormous for the content creating community. We also get firefight out of ODST, which proves to be very popular. 

Then Reach drops, and we get...a half-assed attempt at customization. Halo 4 hits and we essentially get nothing. Halo 5 is released and we get Halo's trend-chasing version of a MOBA and MTX cosmetic bullshit. 

The original trilogy sold itself not only on its campaign and basic multiplayer structure, it also revolutionized not only the shooter experience but the basic console gaming experience as a whole.The first three titles changed the console video game landscape. The next three games didn't even come close. For Halo to regain its legendary status, it needs to reinvent the wheel in some form or another.

How does it do that? I'm not sure. There really isn't any killer new method of experiencing FPS games that I can conceive of. 

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27 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Here's the problem - no I don't. 

I've said this before and I stand by it (think I talked to @S0UL FLAME about it). CE comes out and is the killer app for a brand new system. It's the first wildly popular game on console to use the dual analog control scheme. It basically codified several mechanics for console shooters like aim assist. It's an absolute LAN'ing dream machine in the pre-XBL age. It's also a brand new IP and it's well produced. Halo 2 rolls around, and literally creates the online console lobby/friend/matchmaking system as we know it today. It is the online console game to play. Halo 3 hits. Now we've got a map editor and a gameplay demo reviewer, which was enormous for the content creating community. We also get firefight out of ODST, which proves to be very popular. 

Then Reach drops, and we get...a half-assed attempt at customization. Halo 4 hits and we essentially get nothing. Halo 5 is released and we get Halo's trend-chasing version of a MOBA and MTX cosmetic bullshit. 

The original trilogy sold itself not only on its campaign and basic multiplayer structure, it also revolutionized not only the shooter experience but the basic console gaming experience as a whole.The first three titles changed the console video game landscape. The next three games didn't even come close. For Halo to regain its legendary status, it needs to reinvent the wheel in some form or another.

How does it do that? I'm not sure. There really isn't any killer new method of experiencing FPS games that I can conceive of. 

Great points. Agreed with all of it.

 

The only thing I can see it doing better than others is the crossplay between Xbox and PC players. Seamless controller/mkb MM with the ability to share maps, game modes, VoDs, etc between each other. But that's still nowhere near as game changing as the H1-H3 era allowed them to be.

 

Ironically if it has a great splitscreen experience that could be a big deal in the overall value more than anything else.

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Unfortunately I don't think that there's any big revolution coming, none that I can think of anyways. CE was basically the first good console shooter, H2 essentially built XBL and was way ahead of its time in terms of its online systems, and H3 introduced a map editor and theater. In terms of revolutions like those, I think we're basically past the point that they're possible. Online gaming has changed so dramatically since those days, that anything Halo could have done to revolutionize itself has already been done by someone else. Just look at movement. "Advanced" movement was all the rage for a while, Halo implements it, and it just feels like a trendchasing half measure to steal people from other franchises. Not only did it not revolutionize Halo, it actively made it worse. 

I suppose there are little things Halo could do to improve from a non gameplay perspective. Maybe something like an in game tournament viewer, encouraging mod tools, or cross play etc. I'm kind of just spitballing because quite frankly I don't really know, nor do I think an original trilogy level of innovation is even possible any more. I think the best Halo could do is just be completely buttoned up. No more weird gameplay, no more nagging problems like heavy aim, no more weapon tuning updates that essentially break the game, etc. Just a buttoned up experience, with solid gameplay, maps, mechanics, content, social features and support from the moment it launches until the moment Halo 7 comes out.

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I don't think it matters much anymore now that LAN'ing has been destroyed, but of all things, the original Killer Instinct had a built-in tournament bracket feature that I always thought was the shit. 

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If Halo is going to revolutionize anything again it will be on PC, I honestly think a big reason Halo has gone down the terrible path it has is because it was locked to Xbox.

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I think Forge/File Sharing/Theater could still have a major impact on Halo if 343 didn't keep dropping the ball. We haven't had seamless file sharing since Reach. 

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Honestly I'd love to see Halo get better post-launch content and I'm not talking about missing content that has been in other releases, but was delayed.

Besides Spartan Ops what post-launch content have we really gotten? Some multiplayer maps?

Where is the extra story DLC, new gametypes, enhancements to existing content like Forge? Halo definitely needs a better post-launch content to stay relevant especially with how long Halo's typical development cycle is compared to something like CoD.

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at the very least, halo should have everything that it's predecessors had.

Things halo5 was missing:

0. no splitscreen

1. no lan

2. no multiplayer theater.

3. theater is even worse than the past 4 games because the reticule doesnt match up

4. forge worse than CE. 

5. multiplayer status is done worse than halo3. ranks worse, xp worse, win/loss worse.

6. no open stats api. halo 2/3/reach stat tracking has been gutted and it's still better than halo 4/mcc/5's. 

7. file share worse than 3/reach. it was entertaining to look through people's fileshares in lobby and look at their screenshots and browse their gametype/map combos. shit's hidden away now. 

 

 

Things halo infinite could do:

0. make the game free

0.5. add skins

1. matchmaking experience. could add tournament mode 

2. do better forge than ce

3. crossplay 

4. bots that can be used to train and make content. like i could have a bot that just sits s3 on guardian and tries to br on me while head glitching or I could have him drive a ghost 24/7 around a map

5. allow us to stream in 4k/120fps on mixer

6. allow us more customization. let us be able to fully edit weapon values, spawn values, movement values. 

7. idk could make a halo raids content like destiny lmao. 

8. let us put 1000 people in a halo match, splitscreen 8 people

 

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45 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

We also get firefight out of ODST, which proves to be very popular. Then Reach drops, and we get...a half-assed attempt at customization. Halo 4 hits and we essentially get nothing. Halo 5 is released and we get Halo's trend-chasing version of a MOBA and MTX cosmetic bullshit. 

See, I find this to be kinda weirdly written. ODST's Firefight was a rip on the horde-style trend going around, bred from World at War's zombies and Gears 2's Horde mode. It didn't exactly come out of the game. Other things came into ODST, which is fine. Reach offered a better, more refined map editor than its predecessor that was much more accessible and easy to build with, on top of well-implemented social features like the file share, even if the gameplay sucked for half a year. Halo 4 added more forge features like magnets, which was elaborated on more with H2A's take on the map editor (a really good variant of forge), and eventually, Halo 5 gave us an insane map editor where you could breed so many new maps and gametype combinations it's nuts, on top of an enhanced custom games option set. And eventually a cool customs/server browser type thing that accented the new forge/custom games set, and I hope is expanded upon in the future. 

It's not like we got nothing. We got quite a bit over the series' advancement, but obviously we can't exactly do "revolutionary things" when the biggest, most world-changing aspects of the gaming landscape are sorta set in stone and have been for the last two decades. With that said, of course a game trilogy that "capitalized" on newly emerging tech/trends is gonna look much better than three games following it that are made in the landscape where these things already exist, even IF they were identical in makeup, or had their own improvements internally. I don't think that's a good method of comparison. You could tangibly improve on a gameplay mechanic or implemented element like forge. You can't exactly go "how do we make Multiplayer 2" to add onto an online service that exists. Or, I feel you can't do it in a way that will utterly shake said landscape in the same way as its baseline establishment would be.

Which is why I feel refinement over reinvention is the way to go. I think you'd be sinking too many resources into nothing with the latter at this point.

8 minutes ago, Riddler said:

4. forge worse than CE. 

Custom Edition's map editor isn't "forge". It's essentially a dev-made map builder. They serve a similar purpose but aren't the same in terms of execution.

In saying that, the forge "isn't worse" when it's not inherently meant to be a map editor in that vein. 

I'd rather have the option for both, over dropping one for "quality's sake". One (forge) is user accessible and allows anyone to create funky stuff that can then be carried forward in customs/customs browsers. Even if it's arguably primitive in comparison. I feel that is one of its greatest assets for the wider community who may not understand the loops you'd need to go through to cook a real map up, but want to make things. The second (dev map editor) is much more complex and allows for fan-made maps to co-exist seamlessly in the same realm as real world, dev-made maps.  Opens many more viable doors up for up and coming map makers, too. Since they can validate themselves on actual soft/hardware used to make maps.

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2 hours ago, NavG123 said:

Do you guys have any ideas for social features that could "revolutionize" games like XBL did for Halo 2, and Forge/Theater and the file share system did for H3?

These aren't 'revolutionary' but they are the kind of polish I'd like in a AAA game:

- Reconnect to ranked/social games (the server saves a spot for you in case you can reconnect in time)

- Unlock gun skins/armour via merit (challenges like CoD, not REQ packs) or like Reach credits.

- Drop-in drop-out co-op including split screen.

- AI in Forge. Yeah I know it'd be hard and complicated but we're talking revolution here.

- Custom game server browser.

- Rental servers (for people that want to hold tournaments or do whatever).

- Customization for vehicles in normal multiplayer. Just cosmetics. Things like kill rings on a scorpion turret, one for each 100 vehicle kills you have in a scorpion. Little things like that add a lot of replay value as you want to get more.

- Player ID medals. What are these? When you're in the pregame lobby/matchmaking lobby/every lobby, you can see your player ID card there. It has your name, your colour and your symbol. What I would like to see is a medal system and the player can pick the medal they want pinned to the player card. The medals would all be merit-based unlocks. For example if you're a warthog driver, you can unlocked a medal named "Pro driver" or something. To unlock it you need 1000 wheelman medals and 100 splatters in the warthog for matchmaking. Once unlocked, you can "pin" it to your playercard. This lets people see that you're a driver. You can pin up to say 5 medal on your playercard and if people go into your card they can see more details on them.

This is where your ranks would go as well. If you achieved diamond rank, you'd have a diamond medal there with the season number in it. That way people know you are (or at least were) a diamond player. This shows off your rank and you can update it as fit (If you got onyx 4 seasons in a row, you can have 4 onyx medals then the sharpshooter medal for excelling at sniping).

Medals are seasonal so people can see if you're up to date (you keep your old ones but new ones come out with the season number it's not just "one and done".

Stuff like this and the weapon skins being merit-based unlocks are a great way to add depth to multiplayer without fiddling with the core.

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2 hours ago, NavG123 said:

Forge/Theater and the file share system did for H3?

Is this revolutionary though? Compared to...Halo 2...it's just kind of an extra thing.

Maybe some kind of nonlinear singleplayer thing aping 'Halo' and 'Silent Cartographer' from CE. Some sort of open-ish-world 3d labyrinth. I've had an idea in my head for an FPS on the interior of a fully rendered hollowed out structure, where the player is essentially solving a planet sized Rubik's cube to create pathways or change connections between areas, or radically alter the environment and world geometry.

That would be its own thing though, good for an singleplayer game. Maybe there's merit in Halo separating its singleplayer and multiplayer components into separate releases, but I'm not married to the idea.

Another idea would just be some kind of procedurally generated PvE a la chalice dungeons from BB. You'd need to seriously reconsider the player abilities, weapon sandbox, and probably overhaul the fuck out of the enemy NPCs and their interactions. Some blend of less stupid Spartan Ops & Firefight

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34 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

See, I find this to be kinda weirdly written. ODST's Firefight was a rip on the horde-style trend going around, bred from World at War's zombies and Gears 2's Horde mode. It didn't exactly come out of the game. Other things came into ODST, which is fine. Reach offered a better, more refined map editor than its predecessor that was much more accessible and easy to build with, on top of well-implemented social features like the file share, even if the gameplay sucked for half a year. Halo 4 added more forge features like magnets, which was elaborated on more with H2A's take on the map editor (a really good variant of forge), and eventually, Halo 5 gave us an insane map editor where you could breed so many new maps and gametype combinations it's nuts, on top of an enhanced custom games option set. And eventually a cool customs/server browser type thing that accented the new forge/custom games set, and I hope is expanded upon in the future. 

It's not like we got nothing. We got quite a bit over the series' advancement, but obviously we can't exactly do "revolutionary things" when the biggest, most world-changing aspects of the gaming landscape are sorta set in stone and have been for the last two decades. With that said, of course a game trilogy that "capitalized" on newly emerging tech/trends is gonna look much better than three games following it that are made in the landscape where these things already exist, even IF they were identical in makeup, or had their own improvements internally. I don't think that's a good method of comparison. You could tangibly improve on a gameplay mechanic or implemented element like forge. You can't exactly go "how do we make Multiplayer 2" to add onto an online service that exists. Or, I feel you can't do it in a way that will utterly shake said landscape in the same way as its baseline establishment would be.

Which is why I feel refinement over reinvention is the way to go. I think you'd be sinking too many resources into nothing with the latter at this point.

Custom Edition's map editor isn't "forge". It's essentially a dev-made map builder. They serve a similar purpose but aren't the same in terms of execution.

In saying that, the forge "isn't worse" when it's not inherently meant to be a map editor in that vein. 

I'd rather have the option for both, over dropping one for "quality's sake". One (forge) is user accessible and allows anyone to create funky stuff that can then be carried forward in customs/customs browsers. Even if it's arguably primitive in comparison. I feel that is one of its greatest assets for the wider community who may not understand the loops you'd need to go through to cook a real map up, but want to make things. The second (dev map editor) is much more complex and allows for fan-made maps to co-exist seamlessly in the same realm as real world, dev-made maps.  Opens many more viable doors up for up and coming map makers, too. Since they can validate themselves on actual soft/hardware used to make maps.

I share this sentiment almost exactly. I'd add that halo 4s forge, while it added magnets, was a straight downgrade from reach. Forge in h5 was where 343 seriously improved the mode (at the cost of ease of use and the larger forge world type map).

 But yeah, the reinventing of the wheel days for halo are over. I'd be fine with just incremental improvements along the way. If that can be maintained halo will tread water at the very least.

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43 minutes ago, L377UC3 said:

Is this revolutionary though? Compared to...Halo 2...it's just kind of an extra thing.

Yeah, I'd say so. We're talking modifying maps, gametypes, fusing them into new game modes and activities that the developers would have never dreamed of, and on top of that giving anyone the ability to download it onto their console with ease. Also taking/sharing videos and screenshots is a very underrated way of allowing players to market a game. Think about how many times you get exposure to video games these days by others posting videos/screenshots of gameplay.

It wasn't a new concept, but new to console for the most part. Even other games that allowed that type of customization (Counter-Strike comes to my mind), the process of downloading a custom gametype and instantly playing it with your friends was not as accessible or easy.

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3 hours ago, NavG123 said:

Do you guys have any ideas for social features that could "revolutionize" games like XBL did for Halo 2, and Forge/Theater and the file share system did for H3?

I can think of features that have been done before but aren't common, or features that have been done before but not on console, but in 2019 it's pretty hard to think of features that are completely brand new.

-Server Browser.  Really it's mind blowing we don't already have this.  What is the point of having such expansive forge and custom games when you can only play them with people you know directly, on their terms?

-Steam Workshop Style File Share.  Ties into the above.  Should be able to just search for and download popular maps and gametypes off of 343i's website / an in-game browser...instead of only being able to obtain them from someone who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows the creator...or through adding the creator solely because you heard of him through word of mouth and not because he had an actual platform for displaying his content.

-Some way of getting mod content to consoles, even if in limited form.  Creation Club but without all the monetization.

-Hub worlds.  Dick around on a map as you wait for a match instead of just sitting in a menu.  Not everyone's cup of tea probably, but something to consider.  Or at the very least be able to matchmake while playing Campaign / Forge and just have it auto-save and exit once you do find a match.  The less time sitting in menus staring at the screen the better.

-Let us queue for specific maps / gametypes like CSGO and Team Fortress 2 already allow people to do.  Eliminates most of the mapvote / veto debate, I can play exactly what I want to then when the match is over I can just requeue to play it again if I don't like the thought of random maps after that.

1 hour ago, Shekkles said:

AI in Forge. Yeah I know it'd be hard and complicated but we're talking revolution here.

Timesplitters had this as early as over a decade ago, and Snapmap does as well.  I don't see why Halo couldn't.

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15 minutes ago, Ramirez77 said:

Timesplitters had this as early as over a decade ago, and Snapmap does as well.  I don't see why Halo couldn't.

Well apparently 343 can't code out grenade hitmarkers because it's "too deep" in the engine so that's probably why.

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22 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

"too deep" in the engine

I still don't understand this. *Surely* it couldn't have broken that much to turn one fucking graphic off.

Like, why isn't that just a handful of event handlers? Surely that is just not displaying information. What mank threadbare half-assed set up breaks if you fiddle with the fucking UI?

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3 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

It's not like we got nothing. We got quite a bit over the series' advancement, but obviously we can't exactly do "revolutionary things" when the biggest, most world-changing aspects of the gaming landscape are sorta set in stone and have been for the last two decades. With that said, of course a game trilogy that "capitalized" on newly emerging tech/trends is gonna look much better than three games following it that are made in the landscape where these things already exist, even IF they were identical in makeup, or had their own improvements internally. I don't think that's a good method of comparison. You could tangibly improve on a gameplay mechanic or implemented element like forge. You can't exactly go "how do we make Multiplayer 2" to add onto an online service that exists. Or, I feel you can't do it in a way that will utterly shake said landscape in the same way as its baseline establishment would be.

And this is Halo's problem to solve. Because apparently by its naked self, Halo isn't a blockbuster game. 

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Remember when Halo 3's water was state of the art?

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19 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Remember when Halo 3's water was state of the art?

I still love that games water.

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41 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Remember when Halo 3's water was state of the art?

See this is where Halo fucked up. The AI fish in CoD: Ghosts was the marine based innovation Halo should have had. 

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5 hours ago, Riddler said:

...

5. allow us to stream in 4k/120fps on mixer

...

What world are you living in where this is even possible? lol
Do you realize what kind of bandwidth this would take.  Not to mention 80% of viewers could not even tell the difference.... Also not to mention most streamers couldn't even produce that kind of stream. That would be a significant technical achievement to please a small esoteric audience.  

And whats all this 'do better forge than ce nonsense'? 
Forge is one of the better traits of Halo 5' few scant, scare handful.

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Yeah I can't think of anywhere that even supports 120fps video, let alone live streams.  And console games are all locked to 60fps so big thonk.

In this case though the CE stands for custom edition, not combat evolved.  Custom Edition is vastly superior to forge since it's an actual development kit.

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It's like how the old wad files for doom were better than snap map. It's not that snap map is bad, it's just not a Dev program.

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