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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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13 minutes ago, Riddler said:

sprint is worse for btb than 4v4 yall. u know how sprint elongates maps? well now u have a big team map that is even longer with an accurate starting weapon. its just no mans land for miles. Let's not just stick all the problems to a part of the game "we" don't play. let's get rid of the damn problem. 

 

with that said sprint is terrible for 4v4 too. also sprint should be in halo, as a custom game option and we can have action sack games built around it. 

You have no proof of this, as reach nor h5 had these, and in fact h4 had surprisingly enough some of the best BTB maps. I remember plenty of no mans lands in h2&3 BTB maps, it just didn’t feel that way because h3 had massive spread and h2 had damage drop off. But reach has a pretty accurate weapon in TU. Not many BTB maps are tight like rats nest. These no man lands are petty excuses you’re using to try to believe sprint is bad for btb when it’s not. Sprint doesn’t stretch out BTB maps, like it does for 4v4. Hemorrhage played way better than blood gulch ever did and I believe sprint was a factor to this.

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4 minutes ago, Arlong said:

You have no proof of this, as reach nor h5 had these, and in fact h4 had surprisingly enough some of the best BTB maps. I remember plenty of no mans lands in h2&3 BTB maps, it just didn’t feel that way because h3 had massive spread and h2 had damage drop off. But reach has a pretty accurate weapon in TU. Not many BTB maps are tight like rats nest.

dude the btb kids went back to h3/reach before literally anyone else when h4 dropped lmao. not solely because of sprint mind you. But when people list their top 10 btb maps in a btb lobby, not a single h4 map is ever mentioned. yeah halofan843 might say exile is a good map, but the people sweating it out in btb will just laugh at that answer

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1 hour ago, Riddler said:

dude the btb kids went back to h3/reach before literally anyone else when h4 dropped lmao. not solely because of sprint mind you. But when people list their top 10 btb maps in a btb lobby, not a single h4 map is ever mentioned. yeah halofan843 might say exile is a good map, but the people sweating it out in btb will just laugh at that answer

This is 100% true. The only reason BTB was popular in Halo 4 was because it gave you more targets to shoot at and more shiny toys to play with. But the BTB sweats like I was at one point all went back to Reach and Halo 3.

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If you're a map designer tasked with making BTB maps in a classic movement Halo game, and you keep coming back to the same conclusion of "This is so hard. If only this game had sprint, I could make a good BTB map...", then you are a poor map designer.

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A map that has two freestanding portals, a pair of double sided Stargates, that are linked to each other.  The inner sides are linked together and the outer sides are linked together, like two separate channels.  Players can look, move, and fire through these portals.  The portals are large enough to drive a Warthog through.

N3o6YiC.jpg

 

arch - portal 

square - base 

arrow - mancannon 

dots - decreased elevation 

> - cover 

 

I think that could make for an interesting map that has many travel options without sprint.  Taking the movement options away from base player traits and giving them back to the map allows for better regulation of game flow.

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1 hour ago, Boyo said:

Players can look, move, and fire through these portals.  The portals are large enough to drive a Warthog through.

This one's a winner. Although the actual portal placement seems a bit redundant. Maybe just having one pair stretching the length of the map would be the most interesting.

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7 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

9YYQC3B.gif

 

I want you to try and imagine designing for that as a level designer in Halo 5.  Any gap you don't want crossed has to be ~115 feet across. Sprint does a lot of things to gameplay, scaling is just one of them.

Yeah that’s not even a map that someone made in btb, it was one made to show a point, but it hardly demonstrates its effects on BTB but more so 4v4.

 

5 hours ago, Hard Way said:

If you're a map designer tasked with making BTB maps in a classic movement Halo game, and you keep coming back to the same conclusion of "This is so hard. If only this game had sprint, I could make a good BTB map...", then you are a shit map designer.

No one ever says that, but it’s quite clear a good chunk of the best BTB maps would be preferred with sprint. Halo isn’t quake where they’ll increase the bms to extreme lengths. The most it’s increase it’ll ever get is the MLG speed, or 120%(mlg is 110%). My point is BTB is ruined by sprint like 4v4 is. If you decided to take Eden from h5 and then take the abilities away you easily could play a 6v6 and it wouldn’t feel off. If you played blood gulch with sprint(or in reach case hemorrhage, you don’t feel this map is off, you don’t feel like this is “wrong” because sprint is there. 

I think being open minded to the fact halo has such a diverse group that likes sprint and Hates it isn’t bad. Most people probably don’t give a damn if thruster and the other AM goes but sprint is one of those people ask “does it really need to go”  come on I hate sprint, I used to get people for 4v4 h4 nonsprint customs. But that’s 4s. 

Could you honestly tell me Warzone could do well without sprint with 12v12? I’d love to see someone try. 

When you’re so ignorant to the fact that a compromise isn’t even something you’d be ok with, it makes you look petty. There are good modes in halo where sprint is ok like BTB and infection, invasion, but 4v4, maps like pit, hang em high, prisoner, just do not work, like at all.  Boneyard could not be played adequately without sprint, boardwalk maybe but there’s others that couldn’t.

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@Arlong, gee, it's almost like you'd design the map differently if you weren't accounting for sprint...

We shouldn't need to compromise over something that we can objectively prove, over and over again, is bad for gameplay. And again, if you're a map designer tasked with making BTB maps for no sprint gameplay, and you can't balance vehicle pathing with infantry pathing without having massive chunks of untraversable no man's land, then you are not a good map designer.

You keep bringing up BG/Hemorrhage. That map is garbage. It's ALWAYS been garbage. It's not a good example. Unfortunately, Halo has quite a few examples of poor balance between vehicle/infantry pathing in its BTB maps over the years. That doesn't mean you add sprint to fix them. It means you make better maps. 

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9 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

9YYQC3B.gif

 

I want you to try and imagine designing for that as a level designer in Halo 5.  Any gap you don't want crossed has to be ~115 feet across. Sprint does a lot of things to gameplay, scaling is just one of them.

To be fair that 115 feet isn’t caused by sprint alone. In fact it’s really only getting up to max speed in sprint, ever thing else is maintaining that speed with the rest of Halo 5’s toolkit.

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5 hours ago, Arlong said:

No one ever says that, but it’s quite clear a good chunk of the best BTB maps would be preferred with sprint. Halo isn’t quake where they’ll increase the bms to extreme lengths. The most it’s increase it’ll ever get is the MLG speed, or 120%(mlg is 110%)

Bruh how much of a multiplier on base speed do you think sprint actually is?

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Um blood gulch does feel off with sprint. The whole point is that the base is so far away. Tho this is a stupid metric. Ur argument/statement is also flawed. Its not that simple. If u add sprint to octagon, it wouldnt feel off. Sprint on chillout and guardian wouldnt feel off because theyre room based, but sprinting across top mid or bottom mid on guardian is a problem. Clamber in halo3 wouldnt feel off because we already have ghost jumping which is just clamber that takes skill. 

Also no clue how u think a 115 gap affects 4v4 more than 8v8. Its equal if anything. Like look at longshore. With sprint u can jump from sword spawn to the base to activate the bridge. 1 flag’s meta revolves around fighting them on sword spawn and protecting the base/switch. Once the switch is activated, the attacking team is more likely to win. Add sprint and the map is broken. Youd have to move it like 4x farther in halo5 to prevent that, but the kill times arent longer. It takes 4x longer to get to the base fighting people back now so it makes the base even stronger than intended. 

 

Also bg is a terrible map. Even back in the day it took pros 45mins to score vs scrubs. The game would literally never end if pros faced pros. Heck even scrubs v scrubs games take hours in the halo pc server. Sprint also wouldnt solve the problem. Problem is its too hard to escape the base. 

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9 hours ago, Nokt said:

To be fair that 115 feet isn’t caused by sprint alone. In fact it’s really only getting up to max speed in sprint, ever thing else is maintaining that speed with the rest of Halo 5’s toolkit.

I would say clamber is more harmful to Halo than sprint is. So many jumps in H5 are impossible without it.

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5 hours ago, Riddler said:

Um blood gulch does feel off with sprint. The whole point is that the base is so far away. Tho this is a stupid metric. Ur argument/statement is also flawed. Its not that simple. If u add sprint to octagon, it wouldnt feel off. Sprint on chillout and guardian wouldnt feel off because theyre room based, but sprinting across top mid or bottom mid on guardian is a problem. Clamber in halo3 wouldnt feel off because we already have ghost jumping which is just clamber that takes skill. 

Also no clue how u think a 115 gap affects 4v4 more than 8v8. Its equal if anything. Like look at longshore. With sprint u can jump from sword spawn to the base to activate the bridge. 1 flag’s meta revolves around fighting them on sword spawn and protecting the base/switch. Once the switch is activated, the attacking team is more likely to win. Add sprint and the map is broken. Youd have to move it like 4x farther in halo5 to prevent that, but the kill times arent longer. It takes 4x longer to get to the base fighting people back now so it makes the base even stronger than intended. 

 

Also bg is a terrible map. Even back in the day it took pros 45mins to score vs scrubs. The game would literally never end if pros faced pros. Heck even scrubs v scrubs games take hours in the halo pc server. Sprint also wouldnt solve the problem. Problem is its too hard to escape the base. 

Would you say Valhalla is a terrible map? Spire, etc? @Hard Way you can’t even name a map that has good vehicle pathways and good for infantry(neither can I) .

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45 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Would you say Valhalla is a terrible map? Spire, etc? @Hard Way you can’t even name a map that has good vehicle pathways and good for infantry(neither can I) .

Rat's Nest.

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1 hour ago, Arlong said:

Would you say Valhalla is a terrible map? Spire, etc? @Hard Way you can’t even name a map that has good vehicle pathways and good for infantry(neither can I) .

I don't love all of these maps, and some may not agree, but these are the BTB maps I've seen in MM that I felt handled that particular aspect well enough:

Timberland, Headlong, Burial Mounds, Relic, Terminal, Valhalla, High Ground, Rats Nest, Standoff, Highlands, Tempest, Breakneck, Ridgeline, Breakpoint, Trident, Mt Lam Lam, Ragnarock, Exile, Daybreak, Harvest, Longbow, Meltdown, Complex, Perdition, Remnant, Traffic Jam, Boulevard, Fracture, Guillotine, Scavenger, Recurve, Eagle Square, Antifreeze, Viking, Crossbow, Fossil, Panic Attack, Echoes, and Port Authority.

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1 hour ago, OG Nick said:

Timberland is the GOAT

It's in a complete different league than overrated Blood Gulch but it suffers from the same issue: It's way too hard to score the flag. 

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I'll be honest, perdition was like the only map I enjoyed in halo 4.

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22 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I don't love all of these maps, and some may not agree, but these are the BTB maps I've seen in MM that I felt handled that particular aspect well enough:

Timberland, Headlong, Burial Mounds, Relic, Terminal, Valhalla, High Ground, Rats Nest, Standoff, Highlands, Tempest, Breakneck, Ridgeline, Breakpoint, Trident, Mt Lam Lam, Ragnarock, Exile, Daybreak, Harvest, Longbow, Meltdown, Complex, Perdition, Remnant, Traffic Jam, Boulevard, Fracture, Guillotine, Scavenger, Recurve, Eagle Square, Antifreeze, Viking, Crossbow, Fossil, Panic Attack, Echoes, and Port Authority.

Some of these maps are h4(actually most are) maps man I’ll point out. Dude rats nest is terrible for vehicles, stand-off is actually a good one I’ll give it, but if it wasn’t for the shitty br that hog be borderline useless(as we see in the h5 version) high ground isn’t a BTB map, tempest ok that map was actually pretty good but it was also in reach. Headlong is terrible for vehicles. It’s pretty difficult in halo to make a quality BTB map where vehicles don’t suffer And infantry plays good. No sprint in BTB I’m personally not against, I’m “thinking” of the crowd who’s want sprint in halo and how a compromise could be somewhat satisfactory. Think you as a player I bet usually play 4v4 doubles MLG which I’ll assume most of us here play. It be better for US if sprint was gone from the game modes and maps that these are played on. BUT for those who want sprint in halo wont feel that 343 has cheated them, give into nostalgia, or make h3 2.0. As you clearly see I listed excuses a lot of anti halo fans make. But the sprint lovers wouldn’t be satisfied and I believe the best place sprint belongs is BTB and war zone. 

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

Some of these maps are h4(actually most are) maps man I’ll point out. Dude rats nest is terrible for vehicles, stand-off is actually a good one I’ll give it, but if it wasn’t for the shitty br that hog be borderline useless(as we see in the h5 version) high ground isn’t a BTB map, tempest ok that map was actually pretty good but it was also in reach. Headlong is terrible for vehicles. It’s pretty difficult in halo to make a quality BTB map where vehicles don’t suffer And infantry plays good. No sprint in BTB I’m personally not against, I’m “thinking” of the crowd who’s want sprint in halo and how a compromise could be somewhat satisfactory. Think you as a player I bet usually play 4v4 doubles MLG which I’ll assume most of us here play. It be better for US if sprint was gone from the game modes and maps that these are played on. BUT for those who want sprint in halo wont feel that 343 has cheated them, give into nostalgia, or make h3 2.0. As you clearly see I listed excuses a lot of anti halo fans make. But the sprint lovers wouldn’t be satisfied and I believe the best place sprint belongs is BTB and war zone. 

Call it a hunch but something tells me you're not very good at Halo.

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33 minutes ago, HeX Reapers said:

Call it a hunch but something tells me you're not very good at Halo.

Want to play me and see what happens 😄

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2 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Gonna bring back this gem

CizYJZP.png

Lmao inb4 some jack ass is all like “those halos had no competition” it’s basically the excuse I hear in classic regard but reach had a good population of 100k and it had a lot of competition.

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